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[imeric]

As per this post here:  https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Manage_TV_Channels

The behavior experienced with 21.0.42 is not working for me and it seems to totally ignore my preferred tuner settings.

I have 3 ATSC capture cards in one PC. I use the most sensitive one to grab all the channels (My hauppage 1250 rev D2D5) then setup EPG mapping and then setup my preferred tuner list like this:

My Hauppage 950 setup as preferred tuner for the strong local Canadian stations.
My Hauppage 950Q USB as preferred tuner for the strong US Stations
My Hauppage 1250 (used above for scanning) as preferred tuner for 3 US weak stations (FOX, ABC and one PBS)

When watching or recording it totally ignores my preferred tuner list and will just use one of the cards.  The only way to make this work is to completely stop playback, then double-click on a channel and it will use the preferred list then and only then.

Ideally each card should be allowed to scan individually and channels chosen based on the scan of each cards but since it's not the case a fix for the preferred tuner issue needs to be found.

This absolutely needs to be enforced ESPECIALLY on recordings otherwise I will miss recordings on ABC and Fox. There's that much difference between the sensitivity of those cards.

I also tried to stop time-shifting to see if it would resolve it but it doesn't.

I can tell which card is used by right-clicking in the display and looking at the directshow filter.   

Thanks!!

[Yaobing]

We are treating the preferred tuner as advisory.  When changing channel live, we use the current tuner for efficiency.

Maybe that could be changed.  Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

[RoderickGI]

I only have one tuner card that contains four tuners, so this issue doesn't really affect me. I don't assign any preferred tuners at the moment.

However, the fix may affect me, if tuners had to be assigned to channels. So I would prefer any fix to be configurable. For example, provide a setting in Options/Television to;
"Make preferred tuners mandatory, unless in use"

and perhaps also to add ;
"When in use, ask which tuner to use"

but that may well affect the WAF for a lot of people. In which case you may need an automated first, second, third choice for the tuner to use, and fields for the second and third choice only appear if the first tuner Is mandatory, which makes the setup a bit more complex, not to mention the code behind selecting a tuner.

The other option for people in Imeric's situation is to replace all tuners that can't pick up all channels with tuners that can. Expensive, although I always find it is good practice to use identical hardware in a setup where there is multiple choices like this, so it isn't a bad idea to get rid of the old tuners and get new.

[imeric]

We are treating the preferred tuner as advisory.

Advisory. May I ask why? 

I have 3 PCs with tuner cards. One as per my original post and another one with 3 different cards as well + my main PC which has 4 ATSC cards(all the same very sensitive 1250s so not an issue). + a Colossus for STB.

Channel flipping with different ATSC cards does not seem to slow it down (by much anyway) except when going to the Colossus.  I can accept that as Sage has the same behavior when going back and forth from ATSC to STB.

I really think this should work as advertised on the wiki ie:

This can be important when your tuners have different sensitivity to different channels. When a channel with a preferred tuner is selected for playback, MC first try loading the preferred tuner, falling back to other tuners if the preferred tuner is busy. By default, MC does not assign a preferred tuner to any channel.

Not all capture cards are created equal and this will have a critical impact on recordings (even different revisions of cards are quite different ie the 1250s  have a bunch...+ USB 950, 950Q and the newest 955)

I saw a very good post form BobCu on this which may be a show stopper for potential TV users...  And Since MC21 does not allow you to configure for individual ATSC cards the "preferred tuner" feature seems to be the lifesaver and would be essential to ensure cards are used efficiently without missing recordings when some of them can't get all channels...

Hopefully others with a similar config(s) will chime in.

I only have one tuner card that contains four tuners, so this issue doesn't really affect me. I don't assign any preferred tuners at the moment.

However, the fix may affect me, if tuners had to be assigned to channels. So I would prefer any fix to be configurable. For example, provide a setting in Options/Television to;
"Make preferred tuners mandatory, unless in use"

ROderickGI if you don't set up any preferred tuners, your config "issue" is resolved by itself. so I don't see the point of this..

and perhaps also to add ;
"When in use, ask which tuner to use"

I don't see the point in this as if you set up your cards efficiently as per my original post above you will not run into issues. (THis is how I had my other television software and it worked like a charm...)  The only pop-up I would see is if all "good" cards are taken up for recordings and the less sensitive card is trying to access a channel that it can't pickup, that we get a No signal message...That's it...The wife doesn't need to know more!!

The other option for people in Imeric's situation is to replace all tuners that can't pick up all channels with tuners that can. Expensive, although I always find it is good practice to use identical hardware in a setup where there is multiple choices like this, so it isn't a bad idea to get rid of the old tuners and get new.

Not an option for me as one of my HTPC doesn not have enough PCIe slots.  and as per my notes on cards even the same models don't work the same way so there's no garantee that even if you buy hardware to address MCs inabilities that it will resolve your issue in the first place.  Besides, you can't force users to buy hardware to make-up for MC's missing features...This will scare potential users away (same goes for my multiple folder request for recordings

Thanks for considering Yaobbing.  I think the original intent for this preferred tuner was to address this specific task.  Let's make it work pleease?

thx 

[RoderickGI]

ROderickGI if you don't set up any preferred tuners, your config "issue" is resolved by itself. so I don't see the point of this..

If you read my post;

However, the fix may affect me, if tuners had to be assigned to channels.

You would see that I don't wish to be forced to assign a tuner to every channel, as part of the solution to your issue. I even italicised the important words.

I don't see the point in this ...

I'm sure that if you read my whole post in context, rather than picking out one section, you would see my point.

Think of the situation where someone had one excellent tuner (A) that could receive all channels (1-100), one good tuner (B) that couldn't receive 20% of the channels (25-45), and one poor tuner (C) that couldn't receive 60% of the channels (40-100), where the channels that (B) and (C) couldn't receive don't completely coincide. A user would like to assign the excellent tuner to all channels, but if that tuner is in use, somehow MC has to decide which tuner to try next. MC could ask the user, or have 1st 2nd and 3rd preferences, or just keep trying tuners down the list.

My point was, any solution implemented shouldn't make it worse, or make more work, for people who don't need the solution. Plus any solution needs to take into account situations broader than just yours.

Even in your situation, if the 1250 is recording FOX, and you want to record the ABC, which tuner should MC use? Both the 950 and 950Q may receive the ABC, by maybe the 950Q receives it better, so you would want that as your second choice, and the 950 as your third. Just assigning the 1250 to the 3 US weak stations doesn't meet the need.

[imeric]

A user would like to assign the excellent tuner to all channels.

Actually it's quite the opposite.  I don't want the 1250 to be used if not necessary.  MC should just follow the order under the Managed Device List I setup and use my worst performer card first to tune in channels it can (but only these ones as per my preferred list).  Then choose the second best card to tune in channels it can and leave the 1250 to tune in only FOX and ABC when necessary.  AND most importantly the preferred list HAS priority for recordings. Even if it means cutting a show in the middle. A prompt would be nice for when this happens of course, similar to time-shifting...

My point was, any solution implemented shouldn't make it worse, or make more work, for people who don't need the solution. Plus any solution needs to take into account situations broader than just yours.

Make it worst?...All I'm asking for, is that it works as advertised as per my previous post.  That would work for me.  And I'll repeat what I wrote to you in my previous post, if you don't need it, don't touch it and leave the defaults ie no preferred card selected!

Even in your situation, if the 1250 is recording FOX, and you want to record the ABC, which tuner should MC use? Both the 950 and 950Q may receive the ABC, by maybe the 950Q receives it better, so you would want that as your second choice, and the 950 as your third. Just assigning the 1250 to the 3 US weak stations doesn't meet the need.

Then it should just follow the priority list under Managed Devices...That's it. If there is a conflict, that is not MCs fault as it will have followed the logic dictated by the user...

I played a lot with this and it worked like a charm with you know what so I know what I'm talking about...

Yaobbing if you give me more info on what is or isnt' possible or easier to implement I'm convinced I can help and suggest what would or could work.  Just let me know what info you need from me.

I can definitely do some more testing on this as well or report logs.

[Yaobing]

OK, my choice of the word "advisory" may not be the best.

RodrickGI:

We are not going to make Preferred tuner assignment mandatory.  If you do not make any assignment, then it does not affect you.

Eric:

I am opening this up for discussion.  Previsous implementation may have been done one way or the other with or without a lot of reasons.

So the logic issue is, whether to put "using currently using tuner" above "using preferred tuner".  Switching tuner is disruptive and takes longer.  That was why we keep the current tuner when switching channels live.  That was implemented before the Preferred tuner was introduced.  I am definitely open to make a change on that, but I want to make sure it does not introduce new problems.

[imeric]

After a few more tests I confirm MC will BOTH respect the Manage device list priorities AND the preferred tuner list as per my snapshot attached.  ONLY and ONLY if I start playback from scratch (ie not channel surfing but hitting stop then Watch again in standard view so some of it is already working fine and well implemented.)

Yaobbing How about this: On playback when changing channels, MC will use the priority list under managed device and will use the first tuner specified IF and only IF the channel wanted is in the preferred list.

IF NOT then it uses the next tuner available in the managed channel list by also looking up the preferred list to make sure this tuner has that channel specified.

If not then it will fall back to the next card to tune that channel if the other two didn't have it in the preferred list (in my case the 1250).  And so on if you have more than 3 cards....

If nothing is specified in the preferred list, nothing will change and RoderickGI or others won't be affected by this and channel surfing will remain on the one card.

If this whole logic thing slows down MC on channel surfing a warning could be specified above the preferred tuner drop-down box...

Worst case scenario:
Now let's say I'm watching a show on ABC @ 7h55 PM with my 1250 and I want to record a show on FOX @8h00 PM (Which also requires the sensitive 1250).  MC will need to go through the same logic as per above for the recording and since FOX is only available on that same card it will force it to use that card for the recording.

Then for the channel I was watching (ABC) MC will then go through the list under managed devices and use the next available card.  There will be a disruption in watching ABC but I won't miss my recording!!

So I wouldn't change the behavior of MC to keep trying to lock on Fox and ABC as they might still be picked up by the 980 or the 950.  But that would be done as a last resort if the 1250 is needed for a recording.

This would work like a charm and I can't see how it can affect other users, as long as the preferred tuner list is done accurately or left untouched.  And tuner cards  order in managed list is done from the less sensitive first to the best one kept for last.  (If no preferred tuner specified then you would want your best card listed first as per ROderick's earlier note)

(Actually this would work better than Sage as MC would still try to use less sensitive cards as a last resort to tune in weak channels if the sensitive card is used for recordings...)

I'm volunteering to document this if I get my fix!!!

Thx!

[tzr916]

Would the ability to create "tuner groups" be a smarter way to do things?

Setup tuner groups- A, B, and C.
Tell MC to always use group A for channel 101.
Tell MC to always use group B for channel 102.
Tell MC to always use group C for channel 103.
ETC