INTERACT FORUM

I don't even understand the concept of using art that small.  In my opinion, it's too small to really see the art, so what's the point?  It seems like a feature that was implemented "because it was possible" rather than because it served a purpose.

Files use "icons" -- i.e. "representations" of what the file is.  In my opinion, the icon should not be album art at all -- it should show what "type" of file it is (image, song, video, etc.) and whether or not it's currently imported (blue vs gold.)

This should hold for other media types as well in my opinion.  I've never liked the way video icons are always the same in MC.  I think that these should use the "gold/blue" status as well.

Larry 

Besides the missing import status display the icons make quick browsing of new video and big image files awkward because they trigger thumbnail generation. This is especially problematic if the files are on a slow network drive.

I would prefer to be able to use MC without building thumbnails when browsing even if the files are already imported. Previously it was possible in details view.

If my more comprehensive suggestions are not possible please just make these icons optional. The old system still works with audio files if no cover art is available. I guess that adding an on-off switch wouldn't be very difficult.

Also, please extend the import status display at least to video and image files. Perhaps it could be extended to all file types. For example, the icon could be grayscale when the file is not imported and in color when it is imported.

AlexB, myself, and now yourself makes 3 users to lament the current state of affairs.

Everyone else is cock-a-hoop over the little art icons, affectionately dubbed 'alexicons' by jgreen.

I suggested:
art if it's there and the file is imported.
blue note if it's imported but has no art.
gold note if it's not imported.

so far, there's been no take-up...

I think there are more than 3 people on this side.  It's hard to know when to post regarding these issues and when it was seen as "piling on" (do you use that saying in the UK?).

I think the initial impression by me was favorable, but I do miss knowing whether something is in or not in library.

I didn't think much to these the first time they appeared in wa it v10?  They were removed then after similar complaints.  What I would really like is the ability to add a full size album cover by the side of a listing like WMP 11 does.  That would be nice.  These little icons are too small to be of any real use and we lose the ability to see something that was useful e.g. import status.

Adam

I actually kinda like the little thumb "alexicons" but I have absolutely no reason at all that I do.  I just like them.  The only remotely rational reason I can come up with is that when looking at a very large list of files (such as songs all by the same artist sorted by album -- but not drilled down to the album-only level) you can now visually easily tell where the "album borders" are.  This would make navigation in Standard View a small bit easier for me on my TV (where the text is sometimes hard to read).

Quite often, I'll be playing a large playlist (usually a View Scheme with a complicated smartlist style filter, with MC set to shuffle mode) but like to scroll through and choose a particular song every so often.  Since my "Mix" View Schemes are so huge, I sometimes don't bother to Add (as next to play) but just double-click to start a new track -- and just let it re-shuffle the rest of the tracks.  Visually discerning the album "borders" can make this task a little quicker and easier.

That's a fairly lame reason though.  I thought the previously mentioned idea of making the tiny thumbs their own "column" (and adding a new "status" column with the old color coded icons) was a great one.  That way, those of us who irrationally like the little buggers could have them, and those of you who hate them (but want the color coded icons) could have it your way.

I'd personally probably display both columns, though the color coded column would probably be off to the right (off screen) somewhere.  I, personally, don't have any reason to have files on my media drives that are not imported into the library.  I suppose if you have multiple libraries it could be useful...

I like them because...
Well, I like them!

As for the status of in or out of the library, I really don't have any files that are out of the library and if I did, they wouldn't have cover art associated would they?

First Pluto, now the Alexicon.  I suppose that Rhode Island is next on their list . . .

I like the Alexicons too... although for no particular reason. I also liked the small icons in the tree headers that have been recently pulled off.

Having said that, I think that Marko's suggestions are a reasonable solution.

I suggested:
art if it's there and the file is imported.
blue note if it's imported but has no art.
gold note if it's not imported.

I drop files into Playing Now before importing them too. And though I'm sometimes absent minded, I know that the files are not imported and are available. I just put them there, I'm listening/tagging/whatever before I finalize the import by moving them to their proper location. Then Otto can do his thing.

To tell what kind of file I have in Playing Now, I look at the File Type column.

I can see a use for a "This file is missing" indicator (if Otto is not removing missing files).
Other than that, I think it's a reach.

I'm also one that initially missed being able to determine import status by the icon color.  However, I'm finding that, as glynor stated, the coverart icons are helpful to visually group tracks within albums.  My workaround has been to add the "date imported" field to my view schemes, which when scrolling lets me get a quick eyeshot of those tracks without a value and therefore not imported.

I've always used library tooltips to quickly determine the tracks without coverart.  To double check, I use the task smartlist - "no images."

However, I'm finding that, as glynor stated, the coverart icons are helpful to visually group tracks within albums.

Why isn't the album column sufficient enough for this ? If you add [Album] to any sort rule it will be grouped this way automatically.

Whereas as Alex shows in the above pics, its not possible to distinguish between audio, video, other media etc with just those icons. I'd say thats another disadvanatage in addition to losing the import status.

So we are 2 features lost vs. (?) gained.

The way it was in 11.1 and below did all of this elegantly w.o resorting to workarounds etc.

I'm still waiting to see any more reasons where the icons are functionally more useful other than aesthetics(?) when compared to the older system.

Is this subject still being considered for changes by the developement team?  I'm just curious if further discussion of this is helpful to the developers.  My vote would still be to be able to CHOOSE "art" or "media type icon" for the icon, and to have ALL the icons use the blue vs gold theme.  To ME, the icon does not serve it's purpose if it's a "picture" rather than an icon.  The "generic" icons (i.e. notes, film reel, blue vs gold) have always been useful to me.

Thanks,

Larry

Is this subject still being considered for changes by the developement team?  I'm just curious if further discussion of this is helpful to the developers.  My vote would still be to be able to CHOOSE "art" or "media type icon" for the icon, and to have ALL the icons use the blue vs gold theme.  To ME, the icon does not serve it's purpose if it's a "picture" rather than an icon.  The "generic" icons (i.e. notes, film reel, blue vs gold) have always been useful to me.

Defnitely !!!

..i think they are waiting to see how the rest feel about this when 12 goes public. If enough ppl create a stink then ..maybe.

..but you know, i bet an equal amt of ppl will think its a good idea..n00bs that were not used to the previous system and others for nothing more than personal reasons. In which case it just gets left in as thats the easiest thing to do.

The only purpose AFAICT is eye-candy. It looks interesting (maybe) on a screen-shot for the product. Something you spend how long, maybe a few seconds looking at, i found it gets old quite fast, if you (actually) use MC. If it were just that, ie did not replace a useful, effective system i would care less.

One place the icons (might) be useful is if you have an enormous playlist in PN. You prolly dont care much if its imported or not, but then you can spot tracks from the same album just by looking at the icons, without having to look at the Album column.

Even with properly named cover art, the files not imported still have the gold note.

Not on my system.  Regardless of whether or not a file is imported, if the file has cover art embedded in it, it displays the art and NOT the gold icon.  Perhaps the difference is that my art is embedded.

The bottom line is that I prefer to scan the "name" column and immediately see 1) which type of file it is (i.e. note for music, etc.) and 2) whether or not it's already in the library (blue vs. gold icon.)

Larry

Likely. Another good reason not to embed images IMO.

Assuming it's true that they DON'T display if they're embedded, I'd say this was more likely a bug in MC than a limitation from using embedded images.  That said, if you DO prefer to see the embedded images (as some people have said), then embedding images would be considered a good thing.

I prefer to embed the images since this is the only way that I'm guaranteed to NEVER lose the cover art or have any issues with it not being found.  If the art is embedded, I don't have to keep track of any seperate files -- the art is ALWAYS included with the file.

Larry

I prefer to embed the images since this is the only way that I'm guaranteed to NEVER lose the cover art or have any issues with it not being found.  If the art is embedded, I don't have to keep track of any seperate files -- the art is ALWAYS included with the file.

I use external art because I can first.
But that came from the days I used -v2 or CBR 320 MP3s and scanned in CD covers for the art. The files were smallish and the cover art was quite large. To add a high res scan to each of that size MP3 was silly IMO. Using lossless and a MUCH smaller cover as I do now, it would make little difference.

Please add me to the imaginary list.

Today I did my first steps with MC12 and I was quiet impressed. But these little Icons beside every file... I don't like them either. First I thought I must be doing something wrong and was sure, it happened when I was playing with all its options, but I didn’t find some for this. I just was searching the forum to find out how to switch it back but I just find discussions about it.

Just one point to add: I wasn’t able to find the playing file in my library just with scrolling through it, because with all that thumbnails the little green arrow isn’t seen as fast as in the past. I had to do a search…

So because MCs people always say “But don’t beg us making it an option” I would say: just kick it Referring to the fact so many people out here like it and even many dislike: perhaps you should think about
a) making it an option or
b) do it as AlexB said.

IMHO making it an option would be the better way for it, because with AlexB there’re the two icons (thumbnail cover art plus the little note / film role / picture).

I fully agree with Alex Bs request!

Sorry for getting you wrong first, Alex.

I support Alex's proposal.

I've gotta have the ability to easily tell if a file is imported.

slows the browsing down

That's one i missed,

How much longer will displaying the full library take now ?

Maybe the display is just as quick, but scrolling

so they respond by caching...

but why bother at all.

Here another vote for the old way. (blue/gold)

I requested:

- put the icons in a separate movable column that can be "switched" on or off indepedently in each view scheme in "Customize Current View". This column could be dragged to a preferred location in the row of columns.

- make possible to separately change the column behavior in each view scheme
(cover art icons - or - the import status/media type icons)

- add the import status display to other media types too. (In MC11.1 it works only with audio files.)

- make possible to add a second movable column in each view scheme so that both types of these icons could by visible in a details view at the same time.


A simple "cover art icons"/ "old system" option would be needed at least. This option should be in the "Customize Current View" so that it could be set differently in different views.

The current behavior forces MC to create a thumbnail for each browsed file in details view. This reduces browsing speed and is especially problematic with networked video files when they are initially browsed.

This sounds like the best/most logical solution to me.

Per View Scheme would be great (I think making each view scheme behave as independantly as possible from each other gives the app incredibly HUGE amounts of power in terms of how useful it can be both for an individual and in terms of meeting every seperate users needs).

At the very least make it a global option that people can choose to use or not.

As a seperate column is of course another option that seems logical and a good solution?

Lee--

Speaking for myself, I hope the "latecomers" go ahead and start re-flogging the "dead horses".  Yes, a lot of the stuff you're seeing has been talked about before, but I for one don't think a horse can truly die around here, no matter how much it's flogged.  IMO, the point is for us to keep offering input on things we feel are important. 

There are unsubstantiated rumors that something is happening in this area soon.