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Author Topic: NEW: Car Radio  (Read 42905 times)

JimH

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NEW: Car Radio
« on: August 09, 2012, 03:18:21 pm »

MC18 adds a new way to save and play playlists and Play Doctor playcharts.  You will find it by opening Playing Now.

If you wish to generate a Play Doctor Playchart, you will also need to stop playback of the current list.

Populating buttons and using them to play works like the buttons on a car radio.  You press and hold to save.  You press to play.


More Details:
Buttons 1 through 8 appear on the Play Doctor.  

Press and Hold to save the currently playing playlist.

If you're playing an ordinary playlist, it will save it.

This feature is intended to make it easy for casual users to start playback.

Changes to Play Doctor:
The window for selecting the seed for playback has been simplified.  The settings are now hidden under "options" to the right of the selection window.  Settings are saved for each playchart, but it is not necessary to set anything in order to have Play Doctor generate a PlayChart.

Once you have started playback, you can use the Car Radio buttons to save the list with its rules.  When you press the saved button again, it will generate a new list, based on the seed and the rules.
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Matt

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2012, 06:18:20 pm »

I did some spouse (that's for you jgreen) testing.

The click to play and hold to set thing was immediately obvious.

A few things were not:
1) She kept changing the amount of variety _after_ building the playlist and then saving it assuming it used the new setting (this is reasonable, but I don't know how to handle it).

2) After one time seeing the option 'Include tracks from Last.fm', she repeatedly showed me the menu and said 'but it's gone now.'  It was there each time.  This may sound impossible to fix, but I wonder if we shortened the text to 'Include Last.fm tracks' if it would help.

3) The suggestions in the search box 'You might like' were totally missed.  When I asked how you might play a mix of highly rated songs, she ended up right-clicking column headers, right-clicking the display, editing the rules for included files, etc.  Jim, you were right.

4) If it's slow to get related artists from the Internet, the program can look stuck.  It should show a wait message until it gets one file playing.  Normally one file should start playing right away, but this wasn't working right.

Seeing #1 made me wonder if it would be better to show a popup after typing and pressing enter that asks for the amount of variety, etc.  You could push 'Enter' to accept the last choices you'd used, or customize them.

And there's a bug that the Last.fm option is not saved / working.
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jgreen

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2012, 08:47:48 pm »

1.  I'm not your dang spouse nor even your Prom date, so don't get ideas.

2.  I think it should be called "Philco".
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Scolex

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2012, 12:07:45 am »

Let me start by saying I love the concept but I think Play MD v1 has a far better layout, I nearly didn't see the text entry area and options link.
The layout lacks symmetry which is vital esthetically IMHO. A quick photochop of what I think looks better and has a more efficient feel. (part old/part new)

Edit: After actually playing with it some more and stopping playback I think I understand the placement (cover art remains) however I find the drop down menu
highly annoying in that after you select anything the drop down closes and you have to click options again, a window opening with an OK button would be much better.
Maybe place the preset buttons in the center with the text box and option link centered above them. Another thought is instead of just 1, 2, etc use Preset *n* so it
is more readily understood what the buttons are for.
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Sean

NickF

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2012, 02:30:56 am »

I really like the idea of this.

I think the buttons need to have a configurable text label, rather than the 1, 2, 3 etc.  I know space is limited but even a few characters would help.  Hover text would also help.

I know it's early days but we will need a set of MCC commands to select these buttons.

Nick.
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MrHaugen

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2012, 05:25:43 am »

I love this idea. It might finally make me start using play doctor for real.

There are two major concerns though.

As Nick, I do believe that we need add text labels. Remembering what is what on 8 buttons is not a trivial task. A right click on the buttons with a rename option would suffice. The space for text could be limited to the buttons width.

The biggest concern I have though, is that this is probably NOT saved for library server clients either. At least this was the case for the rules in Play Doctor, which effectively made me never use it after the initial testing. It's just way to much job to do it every time I start my clients. So, for people using library server clients it would be essential that you find a way to sync this setup to the library, or to save the rules and button configuration in a local config file or something, so it's picked up again every time you restart the client.

This brings my mind to a user/client/group based library server sync system, once again, for user/client based data. But I'll try not to go further :)
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2012, 06:27:54 am »

I really like the idea of this.

I think the buttons need to have a configurable text label, rather than the 1, 2, 3 etc.  I know space is limited but even a few characters would help.  Hover text would also help.
Try setting one.  It asks for the label and uses it after you've loaded it up.

Thanks for the ideas, everyone.  We need your feedback to polish this.
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2012, 06:31:16 am »

... this is probably NOT saved for library server clients either.
The lists are saved and I think they are accessible from a client, but if not, we'll try to make that happen.
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MrHaugen

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2012, 07:52:09 am »

I'm not 100% certain. I'll install it later on a new client this weekend to test.
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NickF

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2012, 08:06:48 am »

Try setting one.  It asks for the label and uses it after you've loaded it up.

Nice.  The buttons resize too.

Nick.
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wig

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 08:19:21 am »

A few things I found confusing about the first implementation:

- When I clicked on one of the empty buttons, I get a popup that says "This preset is empty. Hold down the button to save something". Clicking an empty button should trigger the search box or some other selection model.

- Next I tried typing a genre (rock) into the box in the lower right. After I clicked enter, there was a significant delay where nothing changed except that my entry disappeared. How about displaying a message stating that your list is being generated?

One important question on the buttons; are you planning on keeping them in their current location? They absolutely ruin the clean look of the cover art section, and take up valuable space while doing it. They look and feel tacked on (which I suppose they are at this point).




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Matt

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 09:03:53 am »

We're still thinking about the look.

I already don't mind it, because the functionality is so useful (at least for me).

But we have our designer thinking about a way to have a slicker look.
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wig

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 09:27:39 am »

We're still thinking about the look.

I already don't mind it, because the functionality is so useful (at least for me).

I can see the utility. I'd like to save Smartlists to the buttons; that would save me a few clicks every time I start MC.

Quote
But we have our designer thinking about a way to have a slicker look.

 :D


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Matt

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 09:36:45 am »

I'd like to save Smartlists to the buttons; that would save me a few clicks every time I start MC.

The buttons are just playlists, play charts, or smartlists in the 'Play Doctor' group.  So you can customize them by hand (if you're a hacker).  Just use the naming: Play Doctor\##. Playlist Name

This also makes it possible to access the presets from Theater View, Gizmo, etc.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2012, 04:05:04 pm »

I have never used Play Doctor so I thought I'd check it out from a new user perspective.

1.  I had a playlist (not Play Doctor generated) already playing. I didn't know what to do so I hovered over a button and saw that I can "Hold down to store the current playlist." I pressed the button and followed the instructions and saved the playlist. I thought "This is cool", and proceeded to make a radio button for Loopback. At this point I could see that I could save playlists, but didn't really associate this ability with Play Doctor.

2.  Over on the right I saw the field that said "Type to play." I wasn't sure what type I wanted and didn't even remember having "type" as a field. I then thought it wanted genre, but then I realized I was supposed to type into the field.

3.  I then clicked in the "type to play" field and saw "You Might Like" with some choices. I had put together a playlist for a speaker listening GTG last weekend. Three of the "You Might Like" choices were based on a 20-30 second clip of one song from one artist of which I'll never listen to again. Is there any way to remove or reset "You Might Like." One choice said "2001 by Dr. Dre Mix." That isn't anywhere on my personal "Might Like" list.  ;D

4.  Having not used Play Doctor before, I found the lack of information about what "type to play" a little strange. There is just a text entry box and some options with no name or description. If I hadn't known that I was testing the Play Doctor I probably wouldn't have known what was going on or what the options were for.

5.  The options are great and I can already think of several playlists that I want to generate.

6.  You guys should give us an Easter Egg. When we Ctrl + Click the first preset we should get a playlist of our music using Jim's favorite criteria. The other presets could be used for Matt, Bob, etc.  :)
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NickF

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2012, 06:26:00 pm »

I've had a play and have failed completely.  

I set up two sets of rules and stored them under two buttons which I labelled.  I clicked on one of them and was told "There is nothing to play".  But I gave it some rules which should have enabled it to select dozens of tracks from my collection.  

I thought I would check the rules for one of the buttons but there is no way to do that.  We need a right click on each button to edit the settings.

I clicked on the "Type to play" field and noticed the short list of tracks.  I clicked on one and MC crashed.  I restarted and the same thing happened.

Press and Hold to save the current playlist.
What if I don't have a playlist loaded.  I want it to generate one from the rules.

Quote
You'll be asked if you want to "Automatically generate a playlist?".
No, I wasn't.

So, nice idea but a non-starter for me.  What am I doing wrong?

Nick.
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2012, 06:39:59 pm »

I set up two sets of rules and stored them under two buttons which I labelled.  I clicked on one of them and was told "There is nothing to play".  But I gave it some rules which should have enabled it to select dozens of tracks from my collection.  
You have to have a playlist loaded into Playing Now before you can save anything.  Maybe you generated a list but didn't play it.  

We're still tinkering with the flow.  Make sure you're using 18.0.26.
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NickF

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2012, 07:04:33 pm »

You have to have a playlist loaded into Playing Now before you can save anything.  Maybe you generated a list but didn't play it.  
But I want the playlist to be generated automatically.  What's the point of having the rules otherwise?  And I don't want the playlist to be stored.  Surely the whole idea of this is to surprise and delight the user with a new playlist each time you press the button.  You don't know what tunes are going to be played when you press the button on your car radio, do you?  I can't see the point now.

Quote
We're still tinkering with the flow.  Make sure you're using 18.0.26.
There is no option to set rules etc in 18.0.26.

Nick.
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2012, 07:07:15 pm »

If you start a Play Chart once, and save it to a button, it will ask you if you want it to generate a new list each time.

It's getting late, isn't it?
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NickF

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2012, 07:20:48 pm »

OK, I loaded a playlist, I pressed and held the button and it stored the list.  Now it plays the same list every time I press the button.

Yes, it's late and I'm tired!  I'll have another play tomorrow.

Nick.
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rick.ca

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2012, 07:35:16 pm »

No one else will say it, so I'll have to. It looks like a nod to those rabid anti-doc-ites. ;)

I suppose there may be other issues with a display panel and a UI sharing the same space. But it does beg the question—why add functionality that will make it useful to just about everyone, but not provide a UI that would make it largely self-explanatory and much easier to use? Some didn't like seeing Play Doctor because they had no use for the feature. It's now impossible to argue it has no purpose. Besides, it's a special view for creating and managing Playing Now playlists—why shouldn't it have a UI suitable to that purpose?

The mysterious 'Type to Play' leaves me in the dark until I've done so and the options dialog pops up (and after I'm done, I can't get it back). That's annoying, because those options—particularly the Rules for files to be included—may have a direct bearing on the Search I specify. Looking at Playlists > Play Doctor, however, it's perfectly clear how the list is specified. Even some of the annoying mystery of the old PD is removed by showing (when applicable) '[Field]=search term'. We shouldn't have to switch to Playlists to see this information. Even if one adapts to how this works, it should be possible to recall any search, modify it, and save it to the same or another button.

This is my suggestion:

  • Show only buttons. On click-and-hold, open a complete playlist window that includes all settings, options, and necessary controls.

  • This window would include...
    • Button name (of selected button) - editable, or select different button from drop-down;
    • Search - with drop-down (exactly as it is now), but the result displayed as in the Playlist editor;
    • Variety - a 'none...lots' slider with tooltip to describe discrete setting chosen;
    • Rules for files to include - standard dialog with field, operator, value drop-downs (with a control to add another);
    • Include tracks from LastFM;
    • Controls - including Save, Play, Close (only Close closes window, so it can remain open for modification after list is generated).

  • There is a standard/separate dialog for Rules for files to include, but I'd much rather it be embedded in the window—so the rules remain visible along with the Search and other settings.

  • Controls would include Save as default—a buttonless 00. Default playlist—used as the starting point for any new button. I suppose it could be included in the Button name drop-down. That would make a lot more sense than the last-used Rules for files to be included being applied to every new configuration.

  • [After thought #1] The settings should include an automatic Remove duplicates option. If I understand correctly, that can only be done after the list is created—and that's one reason why there's a manual PN command for that. But it would be nice if that could be done automatically after the list is created, and after more tracks are added by PD.

  • [After thought #2] The button of the currently playing list should be highlighted. If necessary for those who think this thing is a 50-year-old car radio, a pushed-in button look would be fine with me. That would go nice with the rear view mirror visualization framed by giant tail fins. ;)

The buttons would be the only visible part of the interface (tooltip: Play. Hold down for configuration window.) The Play Doctor Configuration could be called for any button without affecting the PN list. It would show at a glance exactly how the search is specified. Then any desired action can be taken and the window closed.

This would be much more accessible and self-explanatory for new users. As it is, every new user is going to ask how it works, what can they do with it, etc., etc. At the same time, it will be much more convenient and flexible for more advanced users.

And Nick could handle it in his sleep. ;D
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Magic_Randy

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2012, 07:37:27 pm »

I've been playing with it, but not sure I know how to use it.

If I go to:
type to play-->select something from the list-->Play button (from the Play Doctor dialog box)
Then MC crashes.

If I start playing a smartlist, I can hold down on one of the buttons and it asks for a preset name. I can then play that button. But I cannot figure out how to see the smartlist that is behind the button.

If I set up a button by assigning a playlist to it, I cannot figure out how to clear the button (I can assign something else to it).

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JimH

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2012, 08:17:34 pm »

If I set up a button by assigning a playlist to it, I cannot figure out how to clear the button (I can assign something else to it).
Currently, the way you clear a button is to save something else to it.  I can't think why you would need anything else.  It's the way a car radio works.
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2012, 08:27:05 pm »

If I go to:
type to play-->select something from the list-->Play button (from the Play Doctor dialog box)
Then MC crashes.
That doesn't crash for me.  Maybe you never used Play Doctor and some variable isn't getting initialized.
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Magic_Randy

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2012, 08:40:32 pm »

That doesn't crash for me.  Maybe you never used Play Doctor and some variable isn't getting initialized.

Could be. I never used Play Doctor with MC18.
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Magic_Randy

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2012, 08:43:08 pm »

Currently, the way you clear a button is to save something else to it.  I can't think why you would need anything else.  It's the way a car radio works.

Fair enough. I thought about that before I made the post but also thought I may be missing something.

BTW: if we put the right skin on it, it will look like my first car's radio (1956 Buick).
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Magic_Randy

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2012, 09:12:06 pm »

That doesn't crash for me.  Maybe you never used Play Doctor and some variable isn't getting initialized.

I did some more testing to try to narrow it down.

If I type to play-->select something from the list-->Play button (from the Play Doctor dialog box)
MC will not crash.

If I do the same thing after pushing one of the radio buttons
MC consistently crashes.
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NickF

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2012, 11:57:32 am »

And Nick could handle it in his sleep. ;D
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Rick, misplaced maybe, but it's the thought that counts!

Thinking of Play Doctor, I think I understand it a little better now.  For each button, you can either store a simple playlist - whatever tracks are shown in Playing Now at the time, or you can store a Play Chart, a rule and seed based list.  For a simple Playlist, only the list is stored and, on the long press of the button, the option for generating a new list each time the button is pressed is not given.  For a Play Chart, when naming the button, the option is given to generate a new list each time the button is pressed.

For the Play Chart option, "Type to play" is not very meaningful.  Perhaps something like "Create Playchart".

It would be helpful to be able to refine the rules associated with each button to enable fine tuning of results.

There is definitely a bug when selecting from the short list of options.  The dialogue window appears but if you click on Play or Cancel, MC crashes.  If you type into the input box, say a genre, it works OK.

Nick.
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NickF

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2012, 04:18:16 pm »

I just tried the Play Doctor Playlists and Play Charts with WebGizmo.  The lists show up in Playlists under Play Doctor and play OK.  The behaviour isn't quite what I expected.  For Play Charts, the new list is only generated by going back to the main Playlists page and selecting Play Doctor again.  I had expected this to happen when you select the particular Play Chart, like pressing the button in standard view.

Also, no cover art is shown for the Play Charts.

Nick.
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MrHaugen

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2012, 04:51:32 pm »

Personally I can't say I like the changes that much. The buttons, and the way you can save the play lists or rules of play list creation, is good. But the removal of all the previous options like Rules for files to include and so on is not so great imo.

I really had to think before I got where I wanted. Because I had NOTHING to write in the "Type to play" field. I have never written there. I have just chosen what to include and to get a mixed result of those. Perhaps this is good for Mac people, but it's not intuitive for me. And the way you get one popup window after you've written something, and get yet another popup when you hit "Set rules for files...." feels wrong. It might be better if the Variety window was expanded with more, instead of opening another window.

Also, even though this line of buttons and text fields are minimal, there will be someone that want it gone. Perhaps you could allow right clicking the line to disable it, and then allowing reactivation of play doctor when right clicking the Playing now selection?
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Matt

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2012, 06:48:56 pm »

I think the 'You Might Like' suggestions are making this too confusing for people.

Instead, I think 'Type to play' should become 'Create a new station' (or whatever we call these).

When you click the edit box, the suggestion popup should be only instructions until you type.  Pandora says: "Enter an artist, genre or composer. We'll create a radio station featuring that music and more like it."  Something like this would make sense here.



Rick's idea of removing the box but showing it on the save popup is also interesting.  In that flow, you could be listening to 'Jazz' and save 'Hard Rock' to a button.  This is not like a car radio, so I'm not sure if it's better or worse.

The thing I don't like about that idea is we lose a functionality my wife and I use all the time.  We think of an artist that sounds good, type a little of their name, hit enter and enjoy a playlist.  I don't want to save a preset and deal with a big popup.
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Matt

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2012, 07:51:04 pm »

For anyone that doesn't know, the point of Play Doctor is to type a little of something that sounds good and hit enter to get a nice mix.  Play Doctor finds similar music, considers ratings, learns as you skip, etc.

Some real world examples of things I might type:
norah - Norah Jones and similar artists
regina - Regina Spektor and similar music
easy  - gives a mix of easy listening music
rox - plays a mix of the Decemberists and similar artists starting on a song that's stuck in my head called 'Rox in the Box'
etc.

If you used the old Play Doctor by editing the rules for included files, you were not using it the way we imagined.  That's an advanced option and one that I've never even opened personally.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2012, 07:55:56 pm »

To follow-up on my Play Doctor explanation, I've found this is my wife's favorite way to play music.  It's simple and gives pleasing results.

So I don't want to do anything that complicates the simple flow: type a little, hit enter, hear music.

The new popup I see every time makes this slower and I don't like that.

It's possible it would be more clear if we just separated Play Doctor and Car Radio.  Play Doctor could remain as a simple text entry box (although the new suggestions that show as you type are nice, because they remove any guess work).  Car Radio could just be a row of buttons.  It could still save Play Doctor lists, but the two wouldn't be the same UI.

I'm thinking out loud here, so appreciate any and all feedback.
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2012, 08:48:23 pm »

It's possible it would be more clear if we just separated Play Doctor and Car Radio.
That was my thought, too.
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MrC

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2012, 10:17:04 pm »

... type a little, hit enter, hear music.

I've seen this interface before...  ah, yes.  The Search box.   I wonder if PD could be incorporated there.
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Matt

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2012, 10:29:20 pm »

I've seen this interface before...  ah, yes.  The Search box.   I wonder if PD could be incorporated there.

Technically, it's mostly the same code.

But to a user, the search box and the Play Doctor box do totally different things.

I do like the idea of making the search box powerful, but I've never been able to figure out how to make it the face of Play Doctor in an intuitive way.

Do you have any suggestions?
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MrC

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2012, 11:02:02 pm »

Perhaps a new section in the results list:

   Play Doctor
   >  Set Doctor's Orders

The first item would Play just as type and enter does today w/PD.  The second could open a PD dialog, which today is limited to a non-empty Playing Now (so PD is always available irrespective of PN).   Playing the results might also be enacted via keyboard shortcut, which would be shown in the results list like other commands found via Search.

btw. when exploring this, I found a bug w/MC17 and the Search box.  Type, for example, an "a", and then select a possible field, such as Access Rating.  After the results are shown, it is now impossible to type in the Search box again.  The entry must be deleted first via the Clear search button.
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Scolex

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2012, 12:14:25 am »

What about adding a Play Doctor prefix for search? pd=*search string*

Any chance of getting a keyboard shortcut for the presets ctrl shift 1-8?
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Sean

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2012, 01:04:00 am »

The new popup I see every time makes this slower and I don't like that.

I wasn't my intention to suggest something that would impede your preferred way of using such a thing. I was addressing the shortcomings that were clearly the result of an assumption it would only be used in one 'use-flow'. I think it would be better if it served a wider variety of needs. It didn't occur to me there could be any objection to entering entering a seed in a pop-up window instead of a text box. I would prefer to see all the settings (which I could take-in at a glance if the window were laid out as I described), even if I were doing exactly the same thing as you.

The way to address your concern is to leave the text box, not dismiss the idea of a window (or some alternative that does the same thing). Call it a 'Quick Play' box or something. My suggestion also did not presuppose saving the search as a button—I said there should be separate Play and Save controls. A 'Quick Play' box should be exactly the same as that in the window. If you entered something and then realized you need some other option, then you would press and hold any button to call the window, select/add your option, then select Play and Close. Or, if that's not intuitive enough, add a button labelled 'Play' to the right of a 'Quick' box (so it's clear it's for 'Quick Play'). When that's clicked, it will play (although the same should happen on <Enter> after typing in the box). More importantly, a click-and-hold would call the window—just like other buttons. When called that way, the controls could be 'Save and Close' and 'Play and Close' to save one click (because we all know how important that is to users). A 'Save and Play' would be done by 'Save and Close' and then clicking the resulting button—not much different than if the user had started with a button.

This approach provides a simple consistent UI—regardless of which of a number of results are desired or the preferred way of getting there. That means it will be easier for everyone to learn and use. There will be few obstacles to first-time use. Anything one might try (presented with a row of buttons and a text box) would produce an understandable result. Clicking a button or typing 'duh <Enter>' in the text box generates a playlist. Doing anything else calls a compact little window providing direct access to all settings and controls. And that alone (with the usual tooltips and drop-downs) will provide all most users would need for a working understanding of the feature and what can be done with it.

Quote
It's possible it would be more clear if we just separated Play Doctor and Car Radio.

I think doing so would just make things more confusing. The combined thing is really very straightforward—as long as you're not going to great lengths to hide things or assume a 'use-flow'. They also go together very well. You're not going to get any mileage out of the double branding. As we've seen, that can just make the feature an easier target for the disgruntled. If it's easy to use and effective, most users will embrace it whether it's considered a Play Doctor with buttons, or a Car Radio with a built-in DJ. As for the iatrophobic and koumpounophobic, stop teasing them. ;)
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marko

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2012, 08:27:31 am »

Quote
If you used the old Play Doctor by editing the rules for included files, you were not using it the way we imagined.  That's an advanced option and one that I've never even opened personally.
I generally use this for them all. All my duplicate tracks are in a playlist called 'hidden' and files flagged for deletion are in a playlist called 'recycle'. I need these excluded from play doctor lists.

I really like this new implementation. First impressions are favourable.

Quote
Matt said:
type a little, hit enter, hear music.
More often than not, MC is not running here, but Media Sever is. In this scenario, all I need to do is hit "Ctrl + Alt + R" and music begins. It's great... actually, better than great, awesome...

So, I have this entry in Rescource.xml:
<Entry Key="Ctrl;Alt;R" Command="10047" Param="1" Global="1" />

What exactly is this doing now? I'm sure it used to use the current play doctor prescription, but this is not the case as it pulls tracks from hidden and recycle, and also pulls tracks that have been played within the past seven days, which is another exclusion I typically set.

-marko

MrHaugen

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2012, 09:46:33 am »

For anyone that doesn't know, the point of Play Doctor is to type a little of something that sounds good and hit enter to get a nice mix.  Play Doctor finds similar music, considers ratings, learns as you skip, etc.

This was not clear to me, and it made me wonder what it really was. People should somehow understand this by them self. But how can this be done? Should this be written under the search box? It don't look that good, but it would give many people a ! instead of a ?

It's possible it would be more clear if we just separated Play Doctor and Car Radio.  Play Doctor could remain as a simple text entry box (although the new suggestions that show as you type are nice, because they remove any guess work).  Car Radio could just be a row of buttons.  It could still save Play Doctor lists, but the two wouldn't be the same UI.

This is also what I thought of. I'm not sure if it's that logical to group it together.
What about having the radio buttons on the Playing now, and a separate Play Doctor function beneath it in the tree or something? As Jim says, it should still be possible to use the Car Radio buttons to save this lists and to get new content each playback.
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Lasse_Lus

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2012, 03:45:20 am »

not sure if its' by default, but i can't remove a song by pressing the delete button in playing now when using the doctor, i can remove with rightclick though
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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2012, 06:53:21 pm »

A few notes from 18.0.27:

I like that the popup is gone.  It made it feel too slow to use.

The text 'Enter any artist, genre, ...' feels broken.  I think it would be much better to make a complete phrase, like 'Enter any artist, genre, or song.' or 'Enter any artist, genre, etc.'  It's possible this is a programmer instinct, but ... at the end of static text means "the programmer didn't give the static enough room."  As a user, I'm wondering what I'm missing.

It would be really nice to get artwork for the car radio bar that softened the division of buttons.  A continuous band would look less clunky than discrete buttons.
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Magic_Randy

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2012, 10:52:56 pm »

I'm starting to understand this but it still is not intuitive, at least to me.

Let's say I use Play Doctor to start something - easy and I can assign it to a button. I can even make new buttons from another button.

But let's say I want to use Play Doctor to start something else. I can't get there unless I clear playing now first. Very much a circuitous route to just start again. Couldn't I just do a right click on a button, or have a reserved button to start the Dr, or a standard link to start again?

Also, I still think it would be nice to clear a button. A right click could do this.

It would also be nice to drag the buttons around to create some logical organization.

In any case, I like the direction.
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Matt

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2012, 10:58:01 pm »

But let's say I want to use Play Doctor to start something else. I can't get there unless I clear playing now first. Very much a circuitous route to just start again. Couldn't I just do a right click on a button, or have a reserved button to start the Dr, or a standard link to start again?

Just like in v17, you stop playback (stop button) if you want to start playback with Play Doctor.
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Magic_Randy

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2012, 11:07:07 pm »

Just like in v17, you stop playback (stop button) if you want to start playback with Play Doctor.

That works. I guess I did not know it with MC17 either. Maybe that could be added to the mouse over help on the button.

Don't you sleep?
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MrHaugen

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2012, 02:12:59 am »

Matt is a machine. I thought all on the beta team knew that :)
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2012, 06:39:36 am »

Let's say I use Play Doctor to start something - easy and I can assign it to a button. I can even make new buttons from another button.

But let's say I want to use Play Doctor to start something else. I can't get there unless I clear playing now first.
You just need to stop playback.
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Magic_Randy

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2012, 09:21:43 am »

You just need to stop playback.

Thanks Jim. Matt also pointed this out to me last night. I normally do not use the stop button but I've now turned it back on on my options.
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leezer3

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Re: NEW: Car Radio
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2012, 05:18:31 pm »

Can I just post on behalf of those of us begging to turn Play Doctor off?  ;)
These new buttons seriously clutter the Playing Now screen, and I just don't like it. (Sorry)

Regarding the current state though-
1. The labels on the buttons are confusing. 1-21 simply isn't descriptive, especially when something's playing- The tooltip helps, but it isn't perfect.
2. Again, the text is confusing (You already seem to know this). It needs something like 'from your library' added. I'd be tempted to add a little paragraph of descriptive text on first use which vanishes on subsequent uses.
3. The options are good, but again we need descriptions of some type.
4. The popup tooltip is unreliable here. If I click out of the box onto a Playing Now file and then back again it doesn't popup.

-Leezer-
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