Topic: Forum restructure? (Read 4951 times)

InflatableMouse · « **on:** December 14, 2013, 12:14:32 pm »

I think I've seen this suggested before, I can't seem to find it though and I'm not sure what the concensus was (if there was one).

I'm wondering how you feel about making the main forum platform independent. Questions about organising views, tagging, DSP, expressions are the same across all platforms. Most questions are independent of platform.

I'm thinking something like this:
Currently the Forum Section called "Windows" contains plugins, skins and development. Fact is that development takes place across many platforms including Android, iOS, Blackberry. Skins are crossplatform. This name is not really valid anymore.

So rename this "Windows" section to "Main Version" or something and move the Older Versions and Child Boards to its own section "Previous Versions".
Rename the forum "JRiver Media Center for Windows" to simply "JRiver Media Center 19" and edit the description to make it clear that any question about how to use the program should be asked here.

Create a section called "Platform specific" and place the Linux and Mac boards there and create a new forum for Windows and use the board description to make it clear only OS specific questions should be placed there. Like installation, crashes.

MrC · « **Reply #1 on:** December 14, 2013, 12:55:35 pm »

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=84118.msg574700#msg574700

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #2 on:** December 14, 2013, 01:40:51 pm »

Yes. Thank you.

glynor · « **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2013, 01:53:02 pm »

Man, I hadn't seen this before...

Quote from: 6233638 on October 03, 2013, 02:15:51 pm

But I gotta say, I think 6233638 is pretty close here. That, or something close to it, would be a big improvement, I think. Something where there was a catch all "latest version, not really platform relevant" board, and then sub-boards for OS-specific stuff (Windows, OSX, Linux).

The admins would probably end up having to move stuff to sub-boards when they were hardware specific, but I think it would be better to have the "communities" all together, for sure. I don't use the Mac version very heavily (just for music listening here and there), so I don't troll those boards as often. But LOTS of the stuff is cross platform.

Perhaps the idea is to wait until the OSX version has Video and Theater View, which makes it much closer to the Windows version. But already, the View construction, searching, expressions and all of that are common to all platforms. I think it would help unify the community, and give the Mac users better help.

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2013, 02:01:07 pm »

Yes, that's close. Although I don't tihnk I would place the platform specific boards directly under "Media Center 19", probably better as a child board. Or people would still post their expression question at a platform specific board.

glynor · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2013, 02:02:33 pm »

About the only changes I'd make to his suggestion would be to make the Third Party and Developer Support boards their own "Top Level" boards (you could just make it):

Media Center 19 * Windows Specific * OSX Specific * Linux Specific * Guides Third Party * Plugins, Programs, and Skins * Developer Support

And then the rest just like he said.

The Guides thing is a good idea. You can use this instead of Stickies. Just keep it locked, and let Admins (or maybe Admins and Beta members, if you can do that on your end) be the only ones who can start threads there. If you see a good general purpose How To thread, like some of mine or MrC's, you can just move them to that board. I don't know well enough how SMF works though. A big part of the value of How To Threads comes from people responding, and then responses to those. So, if you look at my "Tag On Import" thread, people asked questions and then I responded with more detail and discussion.

We'd still need to have anyone respond to existing threads, just keep it "curated" as far as who can start threads there. Can you do that? If not, you'd only be able to move "dead threads" (old ones that were no longer developing) there.

Then there'd be a one-stop shop for some curated threads that show how to guides and whatnot.

This last bit is the hardest part, and you could skip it entirely if you think the more appropriate place is the Wiki. The issue there is it needs MUCH better care and maintenance. Often "guides" in the forum come from stuff like this: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=85906.0

And that's hard to do in the wiki.

glynor · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2013, 02:04:30 pm »

Quote from: InflatableMouse on December 14, 2013, 02:01:07 pm

Yes, that's close. Although I don't tihnk I would place the platform specific boards directly under "Media Center 19", probably better as a child board. Or people would still post their expression question at a platform specific board.

Yeah, I was thinking they'd be child boards, kinda like this:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=20.0

Just with only those three, instead of a ton, and then you'd just have the "Regular MC19 Board" below, like that one does now.

glynor · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2013, 02:17:05 pm »

So, the Media Center 19 would actually be a board, like the Older Versions one is now. You could just put it in a header called "Media Center" or "Current Version" or something.

Top level (non-board) Groups would be:

Media Center
With a Media Center 19 board underneath, and then OS-specific Child Boards (like the current Older Versions ones).

Third-Party

Network and Devices

Old Versions

More

jmone · « **Reply #8 on:** December 15, 2013, 12:35:28 am »

I like the Idea of the Guides as they tend to get lost in older version forums.

Matt · « **Reply #9 on:** December 15, 2013, 06:19:50 pm »

We may move to less platform-specific boards in the future, but probably not until the platforms are closer to feature parity.

No matter what we do, it's going to be a little more chaotic because of the added platforms and new demographics of users.

MrC told me that when in doubt, wait.

KingSparta · « **Reply #10 on:** December 15, 2013, 09:14:06 pm »

“When you are in doubt, be still, and wait; when doubt no longer exist for you, then go forward with courage. So long as mists envelop you, be still; be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mist-as it surely will. Then act with courage.” – Ponca Chief White Eagle

MrC · « **Reply #11 on:** December 15, 2013, 09:23:34 pm »

Quote from: Matt on December 15, 2013, 06:19:50 pm

MrC told me that when in doubt, wait.

And then there was my grandfather always saying "Think long, Think wrong".

Hurry up, and wait. I'm a wreck of ambivalence.

glynor · « **Reply #12 on:** December 16, 2013, 08:26:30 am »

Quote from: Matt on December 15, 2013, 06:19:50 pm

We may move to less platform-specific boards in the future, but probably not until the platforms are closer to feature parity.

No matter what we do, it's going to be a little more chaotic because of the added platforms and new demographics of users.

MrC told me that when in doubt, wait.

I think this is fine, though I think eventually something like that structure would be better.

However, I do think the idea for a specific (maybe locked) sub-board for Guides is a great idea, and could really help people find stuff like this:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=85974.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=68462.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=78198.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83371.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83023.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83184.0

As others pointed out, the issue is that stuff like my Tag On Import thread are still absolutely relevant to MC19, but it is "buried" on the MC17 board. A bunch of MrC's great Tip threads are buried on the MC18 board, and so on and so forth. If you know what to search for, you can find them, but only if you already know they existed (or made a bookmark).

A curated or semi-curated board that does this would be a huge improvement for now.

NickF · « **Reply #13 on:** December 16, 2013, 10:31:10 am »

Quote

However, I do think the idea for a specific (maybe locked) sub-board for Guides is a great idea, and could really help people find stuff like this:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=85974.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=68462.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=78198.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83371.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83023.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83184.0

As others pointed out, the issue is that stuff like my Tag On Import thread are still absolutely relevant to MC19, but it is "buried" on the MC17 board. A bunch of MrC's great Tip threads are buried on the MC18 board, and so on and so forth. If you know what to search for, you can find them, but only if you already know they existed (or made a bookmark).

A curated or semi-curated board that does this would be a huge improvement for now.

Can't we make the wiki work better and be this "Guides" board? One of the issues is that it is not sufficiently visible. It should be on the main board index. I know it isn't strictly a board but should be a first port of call when seeking help but many don't look because it isn't obvious that it is there.

Nick.

nwboater · « **Reply #14 on:** December 16, 2013, 12:24:23 pm »

Quote from: NickF on December 16, 2013, 10:31:10 am

Can't we make the wiki work better and be this "Guides" board? One of the issues is that it is not sufficiently visible. It should be on the main board index. I know it isn't strictly a board but should be a first port of call when seeking help but many don't look because it isn't obvious that it is there.

Nick.

Having the WIKI and Guides at least being accessible together makes a lot of sense.

Re the WIKI being "First port of Call" I agree. But I think many get discouraged with the WIKI and don't bother going back after a few unsuccessful attempts. My problem solving rate using the WIKI is probably well under 1% and as many of you know I am not an 'Advanced User' regardless of being on the Beta Team.

Cheers,
Rod

NickF · « **Reply #15 on:** December 16, 2013, 12:47:32 pm »

Quote from: nwboater on December 16, 2013, 12:24:23 pm

Having the WIKI and Guides at least being accessible together makes a lot of sense.

Re the WIKI being "First port of Call" I agree. But I think many get discouraged with the WIKI and don't bother going back after a few unsuccessful attempts. My problem solving rate using the WIKI is probably well under 1% and as many of you know I am not an 'Advanced User' regardless of being on the Beta Team.

Cheers,
Rod

At the end of the day, JRiver have repeatedly made it clear that there isn't going to be a "traditional" User Guide and the wiki is a part of the JRiver alternative. We, the users, are responsible for populating it. It will only ever be as good as we are prepared to make it.

I have just added four of glynor's list of tutorials to the wiki, just a link to the topics but at least they are in the index:
Watched Field Tutorial
Tag On Import Tutorial
Movie Collections Tutorial
Links

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Category:Frequently_Asked_Questions

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #16 on:** December 16, 2013, 01:39:02 pm »

Where do I apply for Wiki Contributor?

Matt · « **Reply #17 on:** December 16, 2013, 01:45:29 pm »

Quote from: InflatableMouse on December 16, 2013, 01:39:02 pm

Where do I apply for Wiki Contributor?

Thanks for the offer.

If you'd like a wiki account, just drop Bob (bob at jriver) an email.

We do this because spammers attack the wiki if we don't gate-keep with a human.

NickF · « **Reply #18 on:** December 16, 2013, 01:57:28 pm »

Before I start to regret encouraging people to contribute, what is the simplest way to add a new entry to the "Frequently Asked Questions" page? Using edit on the page doesn't display the list of entries. One would expect it to.

And, a bit of simple guidance, before you add a subject, think carefully about the title. What do you think users would look for. The list of FAQs is already nearly 200 long.

Nick.

MrC · « **Reply #19 on:** December 16, 2013, 02:04:46 pm »

Quote from: NickF on December 16, 2013, 01:57:28 pm

Before I start to regret encouraging people to contribute, what is the simplest way to add a new entry to the "Frequently Asked Questions" page? Using edit on the page doesn't display the list of entries. One would expect it to.

And, a bit of simple guidance, before you add a subject, think carefully about the title. What do you think users would look for. The list of FAQs is already nearly 200 long.

Add an entry to your page like:

[[Category: Frequently Asked Questions|Title You Want]]

and set the Title You Want to be the title you want shown in the FAQ.

NickF · « **Reply #20 on:** December 16, 2013, 02:08:39 pm »

Quote from: MrC on December 16, 2013, 02:04:46 pm

Add an entry to your page like:

[[Category: Frequently Asked Questions|Title You Want]]

and set the Title You Want to be the title you want shown in the FAQ.

This is how I have done it so far but this assumes you already have a page. What if this is to be your first page?

Nick.

MrC · « **Reply #21 on:** December 16, 2013, 02:14:47 pm »

Typically you'd create a link on an existing page (so that others can get to your page). Is there a page already that should also have a reference to your newly proposed content? There probably should be more connections than just a FAQ category reference.

This might be helpful:

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Starting_a_new_page

NickF · « **Reply #22 on:** December 16, 2013, 02:35:44 pm »

Quote from: MrC on December 16, 2013, 02:14:47 pm

Typically you'd create a link on an existing page (so that others can get to your page). Is there a page already that should also have a reference to your newly proposed content? There probably should be more connections than just a FAQ category reference.

This might be helpful:

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Starting_a_new_page

In this context, the existing page is the FAQ index but the point I made above is that we can't edit that. Most of the generic options for starting a new page don't work for the JRiver wiki FAQ page.

Nick.

MrC · « **Reply #23 on:** December 16, 2013, 02:40:36 pm »

The FAQ is an automatically generated page. It is created from all the other pages in the Wiki that have the embedded link control on it.

So the question remains - is there another page on the wiki that you can use as a jumping off point. You'd create the a link there, to some other named entry, and it will appear on that page in red. When you then click the red link, you'll get a new page option.

Alternatively, you can temporarily edit any page (but don't save), add a link and show a Preview - then click on the link in the preview to get to a new page.

NickF · « **Reply #24 on:** December 16, 2013, 03:11:18 pm »

Quote from: MrC on December 16, 2013, 02:40:36 pm

The FAQ is an automatically generated page. It is created from all the other pages in the Wiki that have the embedded link control on it.

So the question remains - is there another page on the wiki that you can use as a jumping off point. You'd create the a link there, to some other named entry, and it will appear on that page in red. When you then click the red link, you'll get a new page option.

Alternatively, you can temporarily edit any page (but don't save), add a link and show a Preview - then click on the link in the preview to get to a new page.

Thanks for thinking about this. You have described exactly what I have been doing. It's reassuring that this is an OK method. I wonder whether we should have an official FAQ page for jumping off from - "New wiki Pages - for contributors" with some simple instructions. Shall I create this?

Nick.

MrC · « **Reply #25 on:** December 16, 2013, 03:20:20 pm »

Quote from: NickF on December 16, 2013, 03:11:18 pm

Thanks for thinking about this. You have described exactly what I have been doing. It's reassuring that this is an OK method. I wonder whether we should have an official FAQ page for jumping off from - "New wiki Pages - for contributors" with some simple instructions. Shall I create this?

There are other methods. Search for some thing (hint: your new page name) in the Wiki, and it offers to create a new page.

I'm not sure a Wiki on Media Center is the place to put content about How To Edit A Wiki. Instead, it is easy to find:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Starting_a_new_page#Starting_a_new_page_from_a_search

from the Main Page under the Wiki, under How to Contribute to a Wiki.

NickF · « **Reply #26 on:** December 16, 2013, 03:33:50 pm »

Quote from: MrC on December 16, 2013, 03:20:20 pm

There are other methods. Search for some thing (hint: your new page name) in the Wiki, and it offers to create a new page.

I'm not sure a Wiki on Media Center is the place to put content about How To Edit A Wiki. Instead, it is easy to find:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Starting_a_new_page#Starting_a_new_page_from_a_search

from the Main Page under the Wiki, under How to Contribute to a Wiki.

OK, I've got it! But it's the "Go" option in search that gives the option to create the page. Many thanks.

Nick.

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