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Author Topic: DSD upsampling, no PCM?  (Read 5793 times)

hifi25nl

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DSD upsampling, no PCM?
« on: February 09, 2014, 07:41:50 am »

I have a question.

My configuration is:
Audio Device -- > Amanero Kernel Streaming
Bitstreaming -- > None
Output format -- > 2xDSD in Dop format.

This is working fine. Is a DSD64 file converted to PCM before output to DSD128 2xDSD or the DSD upsampling is made in single bite format?


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6233638

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Re: DSD upsampling, no PCM?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2014, 09:50:06 am »

Native DSD tracks are converted to PCM first when using DSD Encoding.
This has to be done, as DSD Encoding allows for other processing to be done first. (e.g. volume leveling, EQ etc.)
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hifi1959

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Re: DSD upsampling, no PCM?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2014, 10:29:39 pm »

Native DSD tracks are converted to PCM first when using DSD Encoding.
This has to be done, as DSD Encoding allows for other processing to be done first. (e.g. volume leveling, EQ etc.)
Can this be an advantage?  I would think one would not want this conversion.  I don't use EQ, volume leveling etc..
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6233638

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Re: DSD upsampling, no PCM?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2014, 07:32:34 am »

Can this be an advantage?  I would think one would not want this conversion.  I don't use EQ, volume leveling etc..
You should use DSD Bitstreaming if you don't want to process the audio in any way.
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hifi1959

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Re: DSD upsampling, no PCM?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2014, 04:15:37 pm »

So how do I keep my DSD files from converting to PCM? 
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glynor

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Re: DSD upsampling, no PCM?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2014, 11:23:22 am »

Tools > Options > Audio > Settings > Bitstreaming.

See attached, and remember, the Options dialog has a search.  It works nice.
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hifi1959

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Re: DSD upsampling, no PCM?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2014, 12:50:17 pm »

Tools > Options > Audio > Settings > Bitstreaming.

See attached, and remember, the Options dialog has a search.  It works nice.
So . . . With that said . . .

Does this mean you will run DSD input and output with no resample process . . . . AND . . . . can you still take advantage of JRiver upsampling the PCM files?  That choice is another option.  Or to phrase my question different . . .  Can I take advantage of the 2XDSD conversion yet leave my DSD files alone or do I have to turn that feature (Upsample to 2DSD) on and off as I feel I need?
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glynor

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Re: DSD upsampling, no PCM?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2014, 01:38:46 pm »

Oh, I think I get your concern.  I'll preface this by saying that I don't have a DSD capable DAC, or any related files, so I'm basing this on my understanding of how MC's other bitstreaming (previously, generally video playback related) options work.

The way HDMI Bitstreaming in MC works is this:

* If you play back a format supported for HDMI Bitstreaming (where the remote device can handle the files natively) then it bitstreams them.  Bitstreaming means: MC does not decode the audio.  Without decoding it (to PCM) MC cannot, in any way, alter it. It simply sends it, as-is, down the "wire" to the audio device, and it is "that device's" problem.  So, for HDMI bitstreaming this would be: AC3, E-AC3, TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD.

* If you play back a format that is NOT supported, then those files go through the normally configured audio chain and DSP.  So, if I have bitstreaming enabled, and I play a video file that has (for example) embedded FLAC audio (or AAC or MP3), then MC uses its normal audio engine and sends PCM to the receiver.

I'd assume, but someone like mojave would have to come and confirm, that DSD bitstreaming works the same way.

There are two related, but not identical options for outputting DSD:

1. In the Output Format DSP you can set the output encoding to a particular DSD setting.  This converts EVERYTHING that MC sends down the wire to DSD before it is sent down the wire.  This impacts OUTPUT.  It says nothing about what happens to the files before that step.  The MC's Audio Engine operates on PCM, so to use anything else in the Audio Engine, it has to go through a PCM conversion step.

This is not bad.  It does it well, and it provides you with a ton of features.

2. In Tools > Options > Audio > Settings you can enable Bitstreaming.  Bitstreaming means, for these particular formats, bypass MC's audio engine entirely and send them untouched down the wire.

If you enable Bitstreaming, you will have to take other steps to match gain levels, and you probably can't use MC's DSP very much (because those settings will only apply to non-bitstreamed formats, causing variation).  When you enable Bitstreaming, basically all audio processing needs to be done on the receiving end.  You can still use JRSS and stuff if you need to apply those changes only to non-bitstreamed formats, but things like Room Correction won't work well (because they won't apply to bitstreamed content).
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6233638

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Re: DSD upsampling, no PCM?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2014, 03:57:18 pm »

Short:
Yes you can have DSD Bitstreaming and DSD Encoding enabled at the same time.
 
DSD Bitstreaming takes priority over DSD Encoding, so your DSD files are kept as pure DSD and won't have any DSP applied.
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hifi1959

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Re: DSD upsampling, no PCM?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2014, 07:23:25 pm »

Short:
Yes you can have DSD Bitstreaming and DSD Encoding enabled at the same time.
 
DSD Bitstreaming takes priority over DSD Encoding, so your DSD files are kept as pure DSD and won't have any DSP applied.

With that said . . .

I have selected 2XDSD conversion.  My DAC reads SADS when I play any file format including DSD.  That tells me MC is processing a original DSD file.  Is that so?
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6233638

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Re: DSD upsampling, no PCM?
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2014, 09:14:00 am »

I don't know what you're asking.

2xDSD Encoding will convert PCM to DSD. (and have a PCM conversion stage for DSD files)
Bitstreaming outputs native DSD without a conversion step.

DSD Encoding + DSD Bitstreaming will output PCM as 2xDSD, and bitstream native DSD files. (no conversion)
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InflatableMouse

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Re: DSD upsampling, no PCM?
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2014, 09:33:19 am »

Does your DAC display make a distinction between 1x and 2xDSD? If that is so, an easy test when you enalbe 2 x DSD output is to play an 1xDSD file. If bitstreaming is configured properly, your display should show 1xDSD.
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glynor

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Re: DSD upsampling, no PCM?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2014, 01:46:31 am »

I don't know what you're asking.

2xDSD Encoding will convert PCM to DSD. (and have a PCM conversion stage for DSD files)
Bitstreaming outputs native DSD without a conversion step.

DSD Encoding + DSD Bitstreaming will output PCM as 2xDSD, and bitstream native DSD files. (no conversion)

+1
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