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[RussellS]

Routinely, when updating library tags etc I am getting tagging errors like the one shown in the following screenshot:-



The strange thing is that the errors appear to be false as the tagging operations always complete properly even though the error has been posted. I don't think I have had any tagging operations actually fail but I regularly have these errors appear but not always. Because the operation always appears to work regardless of the error I have just been ignoring them but I thought it was about time I tried to get to the bottom of the problem.

The system itself is Windows 7 running MC 19 with all the media files stored on a 6TB RAID (FlexRAID) on the same machine. The system is logged in as Administrator so there shouldn't be any permission problems (theoretically). This is corroborated by the fact that the tagging operations do actually complete ok even though the error is posted. The system itself is dedicated as the MC server so nothing else is running on it and it does not get used for anything else.

The problem does not appear to be restricted to a particular tagging operation as far as I can tell. Sometimes is can be just renaming an album and on another occasion it can be updating the album cover art.

Does anyone have any advice on this or any suggestions how to track this problem down. As I said it is not a major problem but just annoying.

[Vincent Kars]

Maybe stating the obvious: does the file exist, does it play?

Might it be it is “read only”

Are the tags actually written to the file or do you see the content of the library.
If you open the tag panel and select the file, are the changes visible in tags in the file?

[RussellS]

Maybe stating the obvious: does the file exist, does it play?

Might it be it is “read only”

Are the tags actually written to the file or do you see the content of the library.
If you open the tag panel and select the file, are the changes visible in tags in the file?

The files definitely exist and can be played. The files are not read only and security is set to 'Everyone has full control'.

I have just done a test as follows just to verify what I said earlier as I was starting to doubt myself:

I have an album in the library that does not have album art embedded in the files. I confirmed this by opening the album up in MP3Tag which confirmed that there was no album art embedded.
I had the album art as a JPG file so I copied that to the clipboard and then selected the album in the MC library and selected 'Cover Art --> Paste From Clipboard'. The image file tag for all the tracks in that album then changed to 'Inside File' as expected but I got the tagging error window shown below:



I then re-opened the same album tracks in MP3Tag and the album cover was actually embedded in each file. So this has verified what I said in my original post that the tagging is actually working correctly even though the error is being posted.

[JimH]

I've seen something similar recently.  We will investigate. 

[RussellS]

I've seen something similar recently.  We will investigate. 

Thanks for that Jim. If you need any more information or testing done please let me know.

[6233638]

I've occasionally had this happen recently too (on a local drive) I put it down to the backup software that I use, but perhaps it's Media Center at fault.

[RussellS]

I've occasionally had this happen recently too (on a local drive) I put it down to the backup software that I use, but perhaps it's Media Center at fault.

In my case it is not just occasionally. It's certainly not all the time but probably more often than not.

It's not just a recent thing either, it has been happening for a while. I've just not got round to doing anything about it until now.

[Hendrik]

Can you post a log of this happening?

[RussellS]

Can you post a log of this happening?

I have attached a log of this happening.

What I did was selected some album tracks in the library and selected 'Cover Art --> Remove Cover Art'. This gave the 'Tagging Error' window but the operation did complete.


Thanks for looking into this Hendrik.

[connersw]

I see this occasionally as well. Usually with Rename, Move, & Copy Files, but occasionally with updating Tags.  I have often thought that it is tied to that particular Folder being open in Windows Explorer, but that could just be coincidence.  As the OP mentioned, the Tag or Rename changes always end up going through regardless of the error message.  I have just been double checking that the change actually occurred, and then ignoring it.   I will try to capture a log next time it happens though.

[RussellS]

Just one more quick update.

It appears that the tagging errors are only happening with MP3 files. I have been going through my entire music library tidying it up and I have had no errors with FLAC or OGG files but I regularly get errors with MP3's.

I don't know if it is down to the encoder used at the time as I have used various ones over the years as well as downloading MP3's from various music download services. The trouble is I don't know which albums are from which sources or encoders.

[Hendrik]

Hrm the log doesn't contain anything useful.
I'll add more logging for the next build.

Am I right to assume that if a file shows this issue, it'll always show the problem on subsequent tag changes?
If so, maybe you can share one of those files that has this problem?

One problem I encountered occasionally, if the file is locked by another application, be it Windows Explorer extracting cover art, or something else entirely, MC won't be able to write tags, and show this error.
But in this case it would of course not end up with written tags afterwards.

[RussellS]

Hrm the log doesn't contain anything useful.
I'll add more logging for the next build.

Am I right to assume that if a file shows this issue, it'll always show the problem on subsequent tag changes?
If so, maybe you can share one of those files that has this problem?

One problem I encountered occasionally, if the file is locked by another application, be it Windows Explorer extracting cover art, or something else entirely, MC won't be able to write tags, and show this error.
But in this case it would of course not end up with written tags afterwards.

It does appear that any subsequent tagging operations bring about the same errors.
I'd be happy to share a file with you. What would be the best way of getting the file to you. Do you have an ftp server I could upload to or alternatively I have a Dropbox account that I could share it through but it requires a Dropbox username to share the file with.


Regards

[Hendrik]

I've been meaning to finish my sample-media uploading website for LAV, which would be equally useful here, but I get lazy on the weekends!

Anyway, just share it with my dropbox account, hendrik at jriver dot com

[RussellS]

I've been meaning to finish my sample-media uploading website for LAV, which would be equally useful here, but I get lazy on the weekends!

Anyway, just share it with my dropbox account, hendrik at jriver dot com

Hopefully the file is now shared with your Dropbox account.

If not let me know because it is bound to be something I've done wrong.

[Hendrik]

I got the share, thanks.

However, the file seems to tag fine, which makes me think its not actually something with the file, but maybe something on your system causing the files to be half-locked or something like that?
Maybe the extra logging in the next build can shed some light.

[RussellS]

I got the share, thanks.

However, the file seems to tag fine, which makes me think its not actually something with the file, but maybe something on your system causing the files to be half-locked or something like that?
Maybe the extra logging in the next build can shed some light.

Well thanks for looking at it for me. I'll do a bit of investigating myself and if I find anything I'll let you know.

Is it ok to remove the Dropbox share now. I don't like leaving copyrighted material sitting there.

[Hendrik]

Yeah you can remove it.

[RussellS]

I have just done a test by copying the file I sent as a test into a new folder within my music import folder and it imported into MC as expected. It would then allow me to edit the tags a couple of times without error but then on the third attempt it started erroring again. Now any tagging operation on this file produces the errors.

If I copy the file to a folder that is not within my import folder structure and then import the file manually then I can perform tagging operations indefinitely and the errors never occur.

So it would certainly seem as though something is grabbing hold of the files but I cannot for the life of me figure out what it is.

[Vincent Kars]

You might try a tool like this: http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/opened_files_view.html

[RussellS]

You might try a tool like this: http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/opened_files_view.html

Thanks for that, it looks quite interesting.

I was wondering what I could use to try and narrow down where the problem lies.

[jreigner]

I am in the same boat with the tagging and mp3 files error. It was a quandry but I just hit ok and go about my business. It is annoying but id love to see what could be causing this.

[Vincent Kars]

As JRiver is multithreading, it is thinkable that one thread locks a file another thread wants to edit.

[AndrewFG]

^

It is indeed quite conceivable that MC (or in fact the OS) might prevent writing tags to a file that was (say) currently being played or transcoded..

[Hendrik]

The file being locked by something is the only explanation for these errors, as it doesn't seem to be a file-specific issue.
I couldn't get MC to cause these errors by itself, if MC is playing the file right now, it would delay the tagging until playback is done. Maybe an import in the background, but that would be insanely weird timing, as audio import/analysis wouldn't have the file open for such a long time to lock it, not to mention so many files all locked.

If the problem happens again, using this tool linked above may give you some insight. If its really MC locking itself out, I might have to dig even deeper.

[Brovig]

I have also had a tagging error problem for a while; I've been getting that Tagging Error report from time to time. Since the tag changes have nevertheless been applied in MC19, I have been ignoring the messages. But today I discovered that while MC19 shows the tag info as changed, the info in the file itself is not changed!

In this latest instance I looked further at the files in question and determined that there was not a file permission problem - I was able to open the files and change the tag info with an external tag editor (Mp3Tag). I tried again making changes via MC19 but each attempt failed. I then deleted the album from MC19, but leaving the files on disk, and then re-imported it. Naturally MC19 now reflected the tag info as stored on the file and not what had been shown in MC19. But I was able to make tag changes after the import with no trouble!

Does this help you in your investigations?

I'm a bit troubled by this coz having ignored these error messages for a while it means that the tag info shown in MC19 is now out of sync with what is in the files. Is there a tool/process I can apply to clean this up?

My system is Win7/64 with MC 19.0.128.

[Frobozz]

I'm a bit troubled by this coz having ignored these error messages for a while it means that the tag info shown in MC19 is now out of sync with what is in the files. Is there a tool/process I can apply to clean this up?

You can get the file tags in sync with the MC library using "Update Tags (from library)"
Select a file or album
Go to Tools >> Library Tools >> Update Tags (from library)
That will will update the file tags to what is current in the MC library database

There is also "Update Library (from tags)" which syncs in the other direction.  Updating the MC library with what is in the file tags.  For example, if you use an external program to update the file tags and want to get those changes synced to the MC library fields.

I wonder if this file locking might be due to the Windows indexing service trying to index the music files?  MP3 is one of the files that the indexing service will index.  The indexing service shouldn't cause that sort of locking problem, but I suppose it could.  I've got the indexing disabled on my media drives and folders.

[Brovig]

I wonder if this file locking might be due to the Windows indexing service trying to index the music files?  MP3 is one of the files that the indexing service will index.  The indexing service shouldn't cause that sort of locking problem, but I suppose it could.  I've got the indexing disabled on my media drives and folders.

Many thanks for the tip with getting the tags sync'd!

As for the files being locked, I don't think they are in my case. For one, I believe I have indexing disabled. Mind you, the files in question all sit on a NAS server and perhaps it does some indexing?

[Brovig]

You can get the file tags in sync with the MC library using "Update Tags (from library)"
Select a file or album
Go to Tools >> Library Tools >> Update Tags (from library)
That will will update the file tags to what is current in the MC library database

I did as you suggested and applied it to a few thousand files and it came back completed saying that there were a number of "failures".

Any idea what a failure means?

[Frobozz]

I did as you suggested and applied it to a few thousand files and it came back completed saying that there were a number of "failures".

Any idea what a failure means?

I assume the failures are the tagging errors that this thread is about.

I'm out of ideas for the cause, beyond guessing.  I haven't had any tagging errors or failures.

[Brovig]

Thanks. I've noticed that certain files just can't be tagged no matter what I do - like restarting MC19. It consistently results in errors. But I am able to edit the tags and write to the files using another tag editor (Mp3tag). Weird.

[glynor]

Take Ownership of the entire directory tree structure in Windows, and force the Permissions down the stack.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc753659.aspx
http://superuser.com/questions/116625/recursively-change-owner-windows-7
http://forum.thewindowsclub.com/windows-tips-tutorials-articles/18379-take-ownership-full-control-permissions-files-folders-windows.html
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/883534-changing-permissions-in-windows-7/

[Brovig]

Many thanks. But it seems I already am in the Administrator group that is deemed to be owner of these files.

Moreover, and I don't know how relevant this is, but I am able to change (i.e. write to) the files in question through other applications, such as MP3tag.

Unless you see anything else that could be the culprit, I will continue to explore this ownership issue. Perhaps it's complicated by the fact that all the music files are stored on a NAS, running Windows Home Server (based in Windows Server 2003)?

[glynor]

Many thanks. But it seems I already am in the Administrator group that is deemed to be owner of these files.

Are you the owner of every single one, in every single subdirectory?  What about each subdirectory themselves which can have their own, individual permissions?

If any of those files were copied or cloned from other systems, they could be "owned" by a non-existent user on the system, which blocks access even if you are in the Administrators group.

Take ownership of the entire directory structure, then force permissions down the stack.  It'll take like 10 minutes, and won't hurt anything if they're all your files anyway.

[RussellS]

I have just done a test as follows bearing in mind that in my case the tagging errors are only happening with MP3 files and not Flac or Ogg.:

I took an album in Flac format already in my library and confirmed that I could perform tagging operations on it without any erors. I then selected the album and went to 'Library Tools --> Convert Format' and converted it to MP3. I then imported that MP3 conversion into MC and then attempted to alter the tags. Once again I get the tagging errors when attempting any tagging operation. However, if I then check the tags with MP3Tag I can confirm that the tag edits I made did in fact get written to the file.

So, in my case at least, I don't think it is a permission issue. Even with an MP3 created by MC it still cannot tag it without erroring.

You might try a tool like this: http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/opened_files_view.html

I tried this but it didn't show any of the files as being in use by anything else.


So I am still at a complete loss. As I said this is only effecting MP3 files. Flac and Ogg files are fine and give no errors.

[Vincent Kars]

Might it be you have a Conversion Cache enabled?
I have the feeling it might be related to this and/or to stacked files

[RussellS]

Might it be you have a Conversion Cache enabled?
I have the feeling it might be related to this and/or to stacked files

Thanks for trying to help with this. Although it is not a major problem because the tagging does actually work, it is annoying the hell out of me.

I don't think the conversion cache is the issue because this is happening on existing MP3 files and I only did this one conversion as a test. Also I waited until the conversion had completely finished (CPU load dropped to near zero) and I also tried importing directly from the conversion folder and also by copying the files into the configured media watched/import folder and both times gave the same tagging errors.

What do you mean by stacked files. Could you elaborate a bit please.

[Vincent Kars]

One can use JRiver to sync to a portable.
In general, one converts everything to e.g. high bit rate MP3
If one enables the Conversion Cache, one has two versions of the file, the original FLAC and the conversion to MP3.
If one tags, both are done at the same time. This is because they are ‘Stacked’
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Stacks

[mwillems]

Just wanted to chime in that I've been experiencing a similar error that occurs anytime I try to sync my phone.  My PC files are primarily FLAC, but I used handheld sync to convert them to mp3 on the phone to save space.  I get several dialog boxes worth of these errors anytime I attempt to view my phone (galaxy note 3) as a device in JRiver.

In that circumstance, I imagine it's the phone locking JRiver out, rather than something more complicated, but, like OP, the tag changes do seem to get written to the files regardless, so it is a little odd.  In the event that it's related, I'm happy to provide additional details and/or logs if that would be of any help.

[glynor]

I have just done a test as follows bearing in mind that in my case the tagging errors are only happening with MP3 files and not Flac or Ogg.:

I took an album in Flac format already in my library and confirmed that I could perform tagging operations on it without any erors. I then selected the album and went to 'Library Tools --> Convert Format' and converted it to MP3. I then imported that MP3 conversion into MC and then attempted to alter the tags. Once again I get the tagging errors when attempting any tagging operation. However, if I then check the tags with MP3Tag I can confirm that the tag edits I made did in fact get written to the file.

Well, then... That does seem unlikely to be a file pemissions issue on disk.

Can you confirm a few other things:

1. When you did the above-explained test, what conversion settings were you using?
2. Where on disk were the converted files going (specifically)?  Same folder as existing, or to a specified location?
3. If specified, is that location also on the NAS?  And, does it make any difference if you go to a local disk?
4. You might have addressed this above, but it IS possible that Security software can cause this kind of issue.  I've personally seen it with older versions of Symantec Endpoint Protection and network UNC volumes. Just to rule it in or out, can you repeat the above-described test with any AV application completely uninstalled?  You can reinstall it if nothing changes, of course, and if it does fix it, we can probably figure out the cause (or get exclusions set up such that it stops happening).

[JimH]

Just wanted to chime in that I've been experiencing a similar error that occurs anytime I try to sync my phone.  My PC files are primarily FLAC, but I used handheld sync to convert them to mp3 on the phone to save space.  I get several dialog boxes worth of these errors anytime I attempt to view my phone (galaxy note 3) as a device in JRiver.

In that circumstance, I imagine it's the phone locking JRiver out, rather than something more complicated, but, like OP, the tag changes do seem to get written to the files regardless, so it is a little odd.  In the event that it's related, I'm happy to provide additional details and/or logs if that would be of any help.

I have a Note 3 also, and I've been seeing these error messages for about a month.  It's possible that it's related to an OS update on the phone.  Other than the error messages, everything still works.

[mwillems]

I have a Note 3 also, and I've been seeing these error messages for about a month.  It's possible that it's related to an OS update on the phone.  Other than the error messages, everything still works.

That's been my experience too, I haven't encountered any problems other than the error messages. It did start about a month ago for me too.

[RussellS]

Well, then... That does seem unlikely to be a file pemissions issue on disk.

Can you confirm a few other things:

1. When you did the above-explained test, what conversion settings were you using?
2. Where on disk were the converted files going (specifically)?  Same folder as existing, or to a specified location?
3. If specified, is that location also on the NAS?  And, does it make any difference if you go to a local disk?
4. You might have addressed this above, but it IS possible that Security software can cause this kind of issue.  I've personally seen it with older versions of Symantec Endpoint Protection and network UNC volumes. Just to rule it in or out, can you repeat the above-described test with any AV application completely uninstalled?  You can reinstall it if nothing changes, of course, and if it does fix it, we can probably figure out the cause (or get exclusions set up such that it stops happening).

1. The files are coverted to MP3 - CBR/ABR Encoding - 320kbps.
2. The coverted files are set to go to a specified folder separate from the existing folder and not within the normal media import folder structure.
3. There is no NAS on the system but a RAID on the same platform as the MC server. It is a 6tb FlexRAID which is configured as the 'V' drive. The normal media import folders are 'V:\Media\...' and the audio conversions are going to 'V:\Audio Conversions'. So all these locations are local disks. I have tried importing directly from the 'Audio Conversions' folder and also copying the files into the normal music import folder structure (V:\Media\Music\...) and with both scenarios the tagging errors occur.
4. Up until this week I didn't have any AV security running on the MC server. It was only because of this 'Gameover Zeus' virus doing the rounds that has been in the press recently that I decided to put McAfee Internet Security software on the server. I started this thread before the AV software was installed.

If I copy the converted MP3 album from the 'V' (RAID) drive to the 'C' drive and import it from there I can tag the files quite successfully without any errors at all.

[JimH]

Does anyone having this problem NOT have a Samsung phone?  I received a private message that raised the possibility this is related to software installed by Samsung.

[glynor]

Does anyone having this problem NOT have a Samsung phone?  I received a private message that raised the possibility this is related to software installed by Samsung.

I don't think RussellS is having the same issue at all.

If I copy the converted MP3 album from the 'V' (RAID) drive to the 'C' drive and import it from there I can tag the files quite successfully without any errors at all.

FlexRAID, then, is the key.  That's not very shocking.  Luckily, I think Hendrik uses FlexRAID as well, so you should be able to get some good help.

[Hendrik]

Sadly I'm over 4000 miles away from my FlexRAID box....

[mwillems]

I don't think RussellS is having the same issue at all.

His issue isn't tied to a handheld, but he's receiving those error messages, with mp3s created using JRiver's conversion process, and the tags are still syncing despite the errors. I'm having those same three symptoms (albeit on a handheld instead of a Flexraid array).  The two issues may be unrelated, but they're presenting similarly enough that it seems like there may at least be a common thread between the issue Jim and I are having and his issue (if nothing else in how JRiver handles these kinds of access errors).

[RussellS]

Yeah, my issue isn't related to a handheld device at all. Also this is effecting all MP3's regardless of what software or encoder was used to create them.

What I don't understand and is driving me mad is why are only MP3 files effected. I just cannot get my head around why Flac and Ogg files tag fine without error but MP3's do error.

I agree with glynor that it would appear to be related to FlexRAID in some way but I cannot figure out how.

Sadly I'm over 4000 miles away from my FlexRAID box....

That's ok Hendrik, it can wait. As I've been saying all along this is not a major problem and is more of an annoyance than anything because the tags do actually update ok regardless of the error. Just in case it makes any difference I am using the FlexRAID Snapshot RAID-F and not the Real-Time RAID.

[Vincent Kars]

Handheld or Raid, are they stacked?

[RussellS]

Handheld or Raid, are they stacked?

No they are not stacked. I did another test with the conversion cache disabled and it made no difference. Also, don't forget this is happening with existing MP3's that were created years ago before I even used MC. I only did the format conversion in MC as a one off test.