Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[AoXoMoXoA]

[Split from WDM Feature thread.  Please see that thread for instructions.

Please use this thread for problems: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=93720.msg646166#msg646166 ]


excitement, but no joy!

It does not work . . .  set MC driver as default sound device, ran through Windows sound test and it worked.
Next tried to play music in Foobar through MC's driver and got only silence although Foobar shows it is playing.

Went back into Windows sound settings and tried to test the MC sound device and got nothing.

Tried playing music in MC but still nothing, even after reboot.

After re-setting my audio to the regular device sound was returned, but when I tried to set a zone in MC to use the MC driver I still had no audio even thought MC appeared to be playing . . . . then it crashed Windows forcing a restart.


Windows 8.1 / MC 20.0.25

[Mitchco]

Just a note that this is a holy grail of audio.  I so wanted a way to route audio through MC, and now it's here.  It's a really elegant solution.  Thanks to everyone that helped. 

For so long, I said "Hey, driver programmer wanted" because I was afraid of drivers.  I hoped, hoped, hoped, but finally bit the bullet and learned myself.

Matt, you are the king man!  Developing a WDM audio driver on the Windows platform is about the hardest thing to program - source: I work at Microsoft as a programmer.

Kudos!

Best regards, Mitch

[Claude Lapalme]

Impressive work.

While I have no trouble with crashing, I do have audio/video sync problems. The audio is delayed by roughly 300 ms (personal estimate).
Am I the only one experiencing this?

[Matt]

Impressive work.

While I have no trouble with crashing, I do have audio/video sync problems. The audio is delayed by roughly 300 ms (personal estimate).
Am I the only one experiencing this?

Set the buffering in Options > Audio > Device settings lower.  Pick a really tight value.

Also, Options > Audio > Advanced > Live playback latency.  Turn that down.

[mwillems]

Tried playing music in MC but still nothing, even after reboot.

After re-setting my audio to the regular device sound was returned, but when I tried to set a zone in MC to use the MC driver I still had no audio even thought MC appeared to be playing . . . . then it crashed Windows forcing a restart.

It sounds like you're trying to select the JRiver driver as an output in JRiver?  If that's what you're doing, that won't work (and might cause an infinite loop). JRiver needs to be set to output to your normal soundcard, with the JRiver driver set as system default.  

[Claude Lapalme]

That works!

Didn't before somehow. But I retried it with success.

[retro]

Fantastic! And it's not even christmas yet..

It just works! I love it..

Thanks Matt!

[AoXoMoXoA]

It sounds like you're trying to select the JRiver driver as an output in JRiver?  If that's what you're doing, that won't work (and might cause an infinite loop). JRiver needs to be set to output to your normal soundcard, with the JRiver driver set as system default.  

OK, tried it again after reading your post and that was my error . . . MC was set to output to the Default Device, which once set to JRiver Driver caused said loop.

Works now. Thanks

[Zero_G]

I can't wait to try this out later!  Excellent news!!!   

[mattkhan]

Good to see this out so early in the r20 cycle. Couple of questions;

Do you know what latency this adds in itself or is it specific to the PC it runs on?
Is it possible to zone switch on activation of the wdm input?

[mwillems]

Do you know what latency this adds in itself or is it specific to the PC it runs on?

The added latency is configurable based on the "live playback latency" setting; the actual total tip-to-tip software latency is pretty close to the sum of the live playback latency setting and the audio output device buffer setting (based on my measurements).  It may be adding a handful of additional ms, but definitely in the single digits (I was seeing mostly onesies or twosies) on top of the configured latency.  

The "minimums" will depend on what buffering settings your devices/computer will tolerate. On all the PCs I tested, I could achieve a configuration that was good enough for lipsync without convolution (although on one machine it was verging on unacceptable).  By contrast with convolution some of my machines were still solid, but some were definitely not.

Is it possible to zone switch on activation of the wdm input?

Yes, the rule that will choose the WDM input is

Code: [Select]

[Name]="IPC"
I personally recommend setting up a separate zone to receive WDM playback as that will make certain activities much easier/more seamless (e.g. running netflix in theater view).

[Bccc1]

Finally! Thank you very much!
This and some improvements to the DSP Section and the audiopart is perfect (for me). If this was the only improvement in v20 I'd still pay the full upgrade price.

Also thanks to mwillems for the zone-switch tip.

[Zero_G]

Gave it a quick try at lunch time using Spotify.  Works great!   

[pahunt]

This thread makes me happy for so many reasons

Thanks for all of your hard work.

[jmone]

Here is a simple YouTube Clip to test your AV Sync and it seems spot on for me with low latency settings for my DAC.
- Tools-> Options-> Audio-> Audio Device -> Device Settings -> Buffering = "Minimum hardware size"
- Tools-> Options-> Audio-> Advanced-> Live playback latency = "Minimum"

Note:  You may have issues with "Minimum hardware size" pending your HW and connection methods.  eg I found with my o2 DAC it works best on the USB3 port with these low latency settings.



Thanks
Nathan

[)p(]

Thanks. Works perfectly with both airserver and shairport4w to AirPlay to mc.

[mattkhan]

thanks @mwillems for the speedy reply

another question, what do these sliders do in the properties dialog for the device? max value says it is a signed 32 bit int value but what it's for is the question

[SpeedD408]

HAPPY! HAPPY! JOY! JOY!!!

Thank you!!  Thank you!! Thank you!!

[vortecjr]

Matt, nice feature! I have YouTube playing through "Player" with a locally connected USB device. Can you look into supporting this feature with DLNA renderers? When I try a DLNA renderer I get an error regardless of the specified output format (PCM, MP3) selected.

Jesus R  

[Acrobat1977]

@MC team, nice work! What "interfaces" does the driver support (MME, DirectSound, WASAPI, ASIO, KS)? Also, is the installation of the WDM driver optional or standard/mandatory?

[Matt]

@MC team, nice work! What "interfaces" does the driver support (MME, DirectSound, WASAPI, ASIO, KS)? Also, is the installation of the WDM driver optional or standard/mandatory?

The driver install is standard.

For what interfaces are supported, it's any interface that talks to a WDM driver.  That's WASAPI, KS, DirectSound, etc.

[RoderickGI]

Here is a simple YouTube Clip to test your AV Sync and it seems spot on for me with low latency settings for my DAC.

I get a bit of drift on that YouTube version as the video progresses, and I don't think it is my hardware. The YouTube version is just a bit of a poor copy.

Try downloading the "BBC-Audio-Sync-Test" from http://clip.dj/bbc-hd-audio-sync-test-download-mp3-mp4-bCPEidaVzQU

That was the best version on the page I found.

I also found these clips useful:
Audio-Video-Sync-Test-Calibration-23.976fps
Audio-Video-Sync-Test-Calibration-29.97fps
BBC-Test-cards-on-BBC-HD-Shutdown-26th-March-2013

Especially the last clip. Just don't get caught up in the popup surveys and rubbish on that page.

Thanks for putting me on the path to find those jmone.

[dgm1960]

This is amazing! Thank you very much.

[jmone]

Yeah it was the BBC test clip I was looking for but in my haste got the other one.   

[lmf22]

Works great on my Windows 7 Professional desktop computer! This is a great feature.

What should the sample rate in the WDM drivers be set to? The sample rate of the source material? For example, for Spotify, set to 24-bit, 44100 Hz? For YouTube videos, set to 48000 Hz?

[stewart_pk]

Thanks so much JRiver, I can't wait to try this!

[damhooligan]

Is this driver available for previous versions of jriver?
Or do i have to upgrade to jriver 20 to get this driver?

[Hendrik]

Its a new feature in MC20, its not available for previous versions, sorry.

[AndyU]

Works fine for me, except when I select my Squeezebox Touch as a zone.

When I was fiddling with this, MC hung, was unkillable, I rebooted which happened to pick up a windows update, during which I got a  "DRIVER_POWER_STATE_FAILURE" message which may or may not be relevant. Eventually re-reboot worked, and all is fine.

[Eric05]

Well, I'm not sure to understand everything (I'm french and my english is not so good). I've selected JRiver MC 20 as default sound device but it works only if the J River MC 20 software remains open, is it the standard behavior ?

Thank you for you rhelp.

[Eric05]

And what about using a DAC ? Maybe this is a stupid question, but I have a USB DAC plugged and I used to set it as default in windows sound options. Is it better to use JRiver by default, the DAC ?

[)p(]

Well, I'm not sure to understand everything (I'm french and my english is not so good). I've selected JRiver MC 20 as default sound device but it works only if the J River MC 20 software remains open, is it the standard behavior ?

Thank you for you rhelp.

Yes. When you set the jrmc wdm driver as the default audio device all audio played on the pc will be routed to the jrmc app. I has to be open to receive the audio.
Then in jrmc you can send the received audio to your dacs sound device.

[Tristar71]

I can't seem to get this to work - followed instructions as per the thread but I just get no sound... think it has to do with the Tools>Options>audio device - in JRiver....

could somebody please give a detailed instruction on what that setting should be...

[packux]

Just installed the latest version, using it with GeekOut ASIO.

Installation went fine, however during testing it seems I can only hear left channel. I tried

- changing speaker configuration to 5.1 and reverted back to stereo
- uninstalling the driver and deleting its files. Had to re-install MC20 to get back the WDM

OS is Windows 7 x64 Pro, using WindowBlinds 8 and Fences.

Any ideas?

[Scolex]

I can't seem to get this to work - followed instructions as per the thread but I just get no sound... think it has to do with the Tools>Options>audio device - in JRiver....

could somebody please give a detailed instruction on what that setting should be...

It should be set to whatever your speakers are actually attached to. For example mine is set to Sound Blaster Zx [WASAPI]
Device settings set the buffering to Minimum Hardware Size if that gives you any problems (clicks, stuttering, etc) raise it incrementally until it plays properly.
Also set Advanced/Live playback latency to minimum.

Right click the volume icon in MC select system volume and make sure it is not all the way down. The normal "System volume" (windows volume) no longer has any influence because you are bypassing the windows mixer. I was a bit puzzled at first because my volume keys on my keyboard and mouse were not lowering the volume and then the light in my head went off and I realized I had to use the application volume (youtube) and/or MC.

[Scolex]

Just installed the latest version, using it with GeekOut ASIO.

Installation went fine, however during testing it seems I can only hear left channel. I tried

- changing speaker configuration to 5.1 and reverted back to stereo
- uninstalling the driver and deleting its files. Had to re-install MC20 to get back the WDM

OS is Windows 7 x64 Pro, using WindowBlinds 8 and Fences.

Any ideas?

What are you using for hardware? (DAC, onboard audio, sound blaster, etc)
I am not familiar with GeekOut ASIO have you tried any other options.

I am using Win 7 x64 Home Premium and Creative Sound Blaster Zx [WASAPI] with out any issues

[packux]

What are you using for hardware? (DAC, onboard audio, sound blaster, etc)
I am not familiar with GeekOut ASIO have you tried any other options.

I am using Win 7 x64 Home Premium and Creative Sound Blaster Zx [WASAPI] with out any issues

Hi there,

I am using an external USB DAC (this http://lhlabs.com/marketplace/geek-out/overview.html). The DAC provider offers both ASIO and WDM drivers and I am using the former in JRiver for audio playback.

[AndrewFG]

The Windows / Control Panel / Sound / Driver / Configure / Test function does not really work if you select 5.1 output; from some channels you hear the test beep and for some not; I suppose it is something to do with latency..

[Matt]

Well, I'm not sure to understand everything (I'm french and my english is not so good). I've selected JRiver MC 20 as default sound device but it works only if the J River MC 20 software remains open, is it the standard behavior ?

Thank you for you rhelp.

Yes.  MC needs to be open to capture anything.

[AndrewFG]

MC needs to be open to capture anything.

It would be a nice feature if the driver could start MC.exe if a sound comes in and if MC is not already running.

However I don't know if a driver (in the OS kernel layer) is actually permitted to start an application (in the OS user layer) (??)

[Hendrik]

That would be extremely problematic.

[Eric05]

Yes. When you set the jrmc wdm driver as the default audio device all audio played on the pc will be routed to the jrmc app. I has to be open to receive the audio.
Then in jrmc you can send the received audio to your dacs sound device.

Thank you !

[mwillems]

It would be a nice feature if the driver could start MC.exe if a sound comes in and if MC is not already running.

However I don't know if a driver (in the OS kernel layer) is actually permitted to start an application (in the OS user layer) (??)

I can't confirm this right now because I'm not in front of a box, but I think running the MC server widget in the tray will do this; my recollection is that it will spawn a JRiver window on incoming system sound if no JRiver window is open (I can't test right now, but that's my recollection of how it worked).

The Windows / Control Panel / Sound / Driver / Configure / Test function does not really work if you select 5.1 output; from some channels you hear the test beep and for some not; I suppose it is something to do with latency..

Very short sounds don't always come through, or come through truncated; a better test is to play known 5.1 content and selectively mute channels in JRiver.

[mutato]

Holy grail, indeed! I honestly didn't expect you'd pull through when I renewed my license. This opens up so many possibilities. Forget "please integrate music service X in jriver", now you get nearly all the benefits of service integration without it being actually integrated!

[Trumpetguy]

Fantastic!!!!  Thanks a bunch!

Used it with Wimp streaming service today, works almost perfect. It seems to stutter just a bit every now and then. May not be the WDM driver's fault for all I know, though.

In Wimp, and contrary to Spotify, the user can choose audio output device. So there is no need to use default device (which would mess up my IP telephony setup at work).  Combined with new 24bit rips and lossless flac streaming, this is a killer combo.

Looking forward to test it with video streaming services.

[Castius]

Thank you very much. This is a really great new feature.

It was little interesting to get setup. Because you can't choose direct sound in JRiver. As it's now referring to itself.
This may be useful to show in JRiver that you are using JRiver in the os setting.

I had to lower the latency to play video games but it seemed to work well after that.

The only real problem i had was linked zones did not work well.
I was trying to play to the sound card and my wireless headphones at the same time.

Has anyone else try this?

If JRiver is shut down can it tell windows it it disconnected?
So it can fall back to the other audio sources.

[Krunchy]

Sorry to ask this. I would like to be sure to understand the benefit of this nex feature.

How this wdm driver solution is better than for example than the quobuz player or any player?
In my system, and for many of us, the usb dac makes any sound going out better (to say short).
If someone can explain me why it is so nice

Thanks

[)p(]

Sorry to ask this. I would like to be sure to understand the benefit of this nex feature.

How this wdm driver solution is better than for example than the quobuz player or any player?
In my system, and for many of us, the usb dac makes any sound going out better (to say short).
If someone can explain me why it is so nice

Thanks

For example I prefer to use Spotify with the iPad app. Now I have a very stable solution to AirPlay from the app to Jrmc and take advantage of its dsp. In my case to apply a convolver for room correction. Also because the ability to setup zones and automatically switch between them, I can switch between this and playing my own jrmc library with jremote with ease. So in short anything that I play can take advantage of jrmc dsp/audio path.

[Matt]

How this wdm driver solution is better than for example than the quobuz player or any player?
In my system, and for many of us, the usb dac makes any sound going out better (to say short).
If someone can explain me why it is so nice

Media Center has the best audiophile playback chain available.  It offers perfect modes like ASIO and WASAPI, it offers full control over sample rates and sets hardware sample rates, it offers a comprehensive set of DSP, etc.  You can leverage that same chain from other players by using the WDM driver.

[mrfx]

Amazing feature! Does it work for remote zones too? I mean is it  possible now to route sound from notebook's web browser window to htpc hdmi out?