Topic: New Mac Mini stuttering on playback (Read 26346 times)

Thebiglebowski · « **on:** July 07, 2015, 02:03:54 pm »

I've just setup my new Mac Mini which is the latest version running 10.10.4 with the 1.4GHZ i5 CPU and 4GB RAM. I've installed the latest version of MC but when I play any FLAC files or open a radio stream the playback stutters like crazy. I moved the Concero back over to my old Mac Mini which is running the same version of MC and this plays back OK. I've also tried using various USB cables with the new Mini but nothing makes any difference. I've compared settings in MC in both Macs and they are the same.

Mac Mini > MC > USB > Resonessence Concero DAC > Pre Amp

Any ideas what to look at next?

tortuga_Bob · « **Reply #1 on:** July 07, 2015, 02:18:15 pm »

Quote from: Thebiglebowski on July 07, 2015, 02:03:54 pm

I've just setup my new Mac Mini which is the latest version running 10.10.4 with the 1.4GHZ i5 CPU and 4GB RAM. I've installed the latest version of MC but when I play any FLAC files or open a radio stream the playback stutters like crazy. I moved the Concero back over to my old Mac Mini which is running the same version of MC and this plays back OK. I've also tried using various USB cables with the new Mini but nothing makes any difference. I've compared settings in MC in both Macs and they are the same.

Mac Mini > MC > USB > Resonessence Concero DAC > Pre Amp

Any ideas what to look at next?

Is Spotlight indexing your music library?

Thebiglebowski · « **Reply #2 on:** July 07, 2015, 02:22:00 pm »

I don't have a music library on the Mini, I'm not using iTunes and all my music is stored on a QNAP NAS. The Mac Mini will solely be used for jriver playback.

I think I've found the issue, if I uncheck integer mode it plays back fine?

blgentry · « **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2015, 05:18:49 pm »

^ Yeah, I think Integer Mode is only supported on a handful of DACs. I know that it makes weird stuff happen with my DAC; mostly long silences. So that option is off.

You didn't say whether Integer Mode was checked on your other Mac with the same DAC. I would expect it to either *work* on both Macs with Integer Mode, or *not* work with both. If it works on one and not the other, that would be a different story.

Brian.

Thebiglebowski · « **Reply #4 on:** July 08, 2015, 03:25:23 am »

Integer mode was working on the old Mac Mini ok, dug out the old iMac (early 2009 model) and that also plays back without any stuttering when integer mode is enabled. Looks to be an issue with the new hardware or CPU.

AndyU · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2015, 04:25:30 am »

I also have problems with dropouts with MC and a new base level Mac Mini - see the thread here. I get dropouts rather than stutters. iTunes and Audirvana work fine. Not convinced you can point a finger at integer mode - I had Audirvana set to use it and didn't have any dropouts.

Thebiglebowski · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2015, 05:24:34 am »

It's not dropouts but a constant stutter i.e when I press play I get silence for around 3 seconds and then I'll get a 1/4 sec blip of audio then about 1 sec of silence and another blip of audio and so on. It's only when I uncheck the integer option that I can get any playback.

JimH · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2015, 06:47:22 am »

What version of MC are you using? 20.0.124 is at the top of this board.

glynor · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2015, 06:58:28 am »

Quote from: Thebiglebowski on July 08, 2015, 05:24:34 am

It's only when I uncheck the integer option that I can get any playback.

Integer mode is only supported with certain DACs. No big deal. MC outputs bitperfect audio either way.

Thebiglebowski · « **Reply #9 on:** July 08, 2015, 07:21:57 am »

Running 20.0.124 on both old and new Macs.

If integer mode is only supported on certain DACs why does it work ok on my old Mac Mini and iMac but not the new one?

Thebiglebowski · « **Reply #10 on:** July 10, 2015, 04:29:56 am »

tortuga_Bob · « **Reply #11 on:** July 10, 2015, 06:38:56 am »

I know that you have not been getting anywhere with this and I know it is frustrating as hell, but ultimately this may well be a problem with the Mac mini that you will have to work out with Apple. Just a couple of questions: you seem to imply that the problem is only with flac files and radio stations, do other file types play OK? What OS were you using on your old Mac mini and what is on the new one? Does the problem persist if you remove the NAS from the equation (i.e., use an external HD attached to the Mac)? The problem is not likely to be either the Concero or MC since everything was fine before. I would focus on the Mac hardware or a change in OS. Have you looked in the Apple Community forums? Also, consider returning the Mac mini if you are within your 14 day period, or at least take it to the Genius bar to see if they can determine a hardware problem.

Thebiglebowski · « **Reply #12 on:** July 10, 2015, 08:54:47 am »

All my Macs are running 10.10.4 and I already said I think it is a hardware issue but it would be nice to get some advice from JRiver.

The problem seems to be with any media but I only use FLAC files and radio streams.

To me it seems logical that if I'm using the same version of JRiver, OSX and DAC but the hardware changes it is a hardware issue but the silence from JRiver is deafening at the moment. The advice over on computer audiophile is that it seems to be an issue with USB3 and to ditch jriver and use Audirvana as integer works ok with USB3 in that.

blgentry · « **Reply #13 on:** July 10, 2015, 09:13:24 am »

If it's a USB3 issue, you should try a USB2 powered hub. The powered hub will eliminate two things at once. First, it will convert the DAC's connection down to USB2. Second, it will power the DAC's input from the powered hub, thus eliminating any potential power issues.

I *do* agree that this is an odd problem. But I have to wonder: Why not just turn off Integer Mode? Can you hear a difference? Or do you just *really* want to try it out?

Brian.

Thebiglebowski · « **Reply #14 on:** July 10, 2015, 09:20:54 am »

I'm not trying anything out as I was using it previously. I'm not going to buy a USB hub as a workaround as I'm already using a Bakoon battery PSU for the USB powered DAC.

I've just installed a trial of Audirvana and the integer mode works absolutely fine.

This now looks to be a compatibility issue between jriver and the new Mac Mini and not a hardware issue as suspected.

JimH · « **Reply #15 on:** July 10, 2015, 09:54:31 am »

Jud just posted this on Computeraudiophile.com:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/roon-labs-software-23986/index16.html#post443687

USB problems in OSX betas.

Thebiglebowski · « **Reply #16 on:** July 10, 2015, 10:35:09 am »

I'm not running any betas, I'm running GA 10.10.4

JimH · « **Reply #17 on:** July 10, 2015, 10:36:33 am »

It is very possible that there are similar problems with other releases.

Thebiglebowski · « **Reply #18 on:** July 10, 2015, 11:41:07 am »

But on that basis Audirvana wouldn't work either.

JimH · « **Reply #19 on:** July 10, 2015, 11:58:42 am »

If a driver works with one program but not with another, it doesn't prove that the driver is OK.

Imagine: "I've driven Fords and Chevys for years. I've only had accidents in Fords. Chevys must be better cars."

Thebiglebowski · « **Reply #20 on:** July 10, 2015, 12:14:18 pm »

Which car is the straw man driving?

JimH · « **Reply #21 on:** July 10, 2015, 12:31:15 pm »

It depends which way the wind blows.

AndyU · « **Reply #22 on:** July 11, 2015, 02:16:45 am »

The clicks and dropouts issue I have with MC and a new Mac mini happen out of the headphone socket, so it's not just USB outputs that don't perform acceptably.

JohnT · « **Reply #23 on:** July 13, 2015, 07:44:07 am »

Quote from: Thebiglebowski on July 10, 2015, 09:20:54 am

I'm not trying anything out as I was using it previously. I'm not going to buy a USB hub as a workaround as I'm already using a Bakoon battery PSU for the USB powered DAC.

I've just installed a trial of Audirvana and the integer mode works absolutely fine.

This now looks to be a compatibility issue between jriver and the new Mac Mini and not a hardware issue as suspected.

I've reached out to Resonessence Labs and they are going to ship us a loaner unit for testing here. We'll post here if we find anything. Thanks.

p.s. which Concero model do you have?

kbowers · « **Reply #24 on:** July 19, 2015, 09:24:41 am »

I have a new Mac mini which was performing fine with JR, audirvanna, fidelia, and pure music with a dragonfly DAC.

After updating to OS10.10.4 all was still fine.

However after updating to Media center 20.126 audio began skipping and now has progressively worsened and is a stuttering loop. Reinstalling is not a fix, rebooting not a fix.

Normal core audio output plays fine. The other apps all play fine thru Dragonfly in integer mode. So the problem seems to be the the Media center 20.126 integer mode connection to USB DAC on OS 10.10.4. I had no problems with the other apps or Media center 20.125 on same system.

Turning off integer mode is only fix.

kbowers · « **Reply #25 on:** July 19, 2015, 10:30:50 am »

SO I went back to version 20.124 and have the same problem with integer mode, so it seems that the problem is in OS 10.10.4 for mac
odd that the other apps Audirvanna, Fidelia and Pure music still are fine with integer mode.

tortuga_Bob · « **Reply #26 on:** July 19, 2015, 10:44:11 am »

Quote from: kbowers on July 19, 2015, 10:30:50 am

SO I went back to version 20.124 and have the same problem with integer mode, so it seems that the problem is in OS 10.10.4 for mac
odd that the other apps Audirvanna, Fidelia and Pure music still are fine with integer mode.

I think that each music player interacts with the OS differently and unpredictably.

Thebiglebowski · « **Reply #27 on:** July 20, 2015, 01:17:17 pm »

Quote from: JohnT on July 13, 2015, 07:44:07 am

I've reached out to Resonessence Labs and they are going to ship us a loaner unit for testing here. We'll post here if we find anything. Thanks.

p.s. which Concero model do you have?

It's the standard (non DSD) model

Concero: 24bit 384kS/s, USB DAC, SPDIF DAC, and USB to SPDIF Bridge.

http://www.resonessencelabs.com/concero/

reginamp · « **Reply #28 on:** July 31, 2015, 08:19:44 am »

Quote from: Thebiglebowski on July 08, 2015, 05:24:34 am

It's not dropouts but a constant stutter i.e when I press play I get silence for around 3 seconds and then I'll get a 1/4 sec blip of audio then about 1 sec of silence and another blip of audio and so on. It's only when I uncheck the integer option that I can get any playback.

I had this problem and I completely quit MC20, restarted the Mini, restarted the software and everything worked great. Haven't played it long enough to see if I get drop-outs, still burning my 600 CDS!

bsuther · « **Reply #29 on:** August 09, 2015, 03:56:45 pm »

Sorry, but I previously posted, in error, the information below to the MC 20 for Windows thread! Please forgive me - I am new to this!

"I get stuttering when using MC 20 with a Benchmark DAC 1 HDR. It happens every time, and I have rebooted several times to no effect. I am new to MC 20 with the MacBook Pro and have done no adjustments yet, although I have used MC 19 with a Lenovo T 60 running Windows XP for several years now with the same DAC and have got very good results, except for several instances of the program freezing when using it with the JRemote ap on an iPad. Any help or suggestions for adjustments anyone? Thanks!"

I have since tried an early version of MC 18 for Mac and it works without any stutter. What am I missing? I have checked and unchecked the integer box as someone suggested in this thread but it makes no differece. Help!!

blgentry · « **Reply #30 on:** August 09, 2015, 04:05:07 pm »

Go to: Tools > Options > Audio > Device Settings ... > Buffering > Hardware
It is probably set to Maximum (recommended). On my system that makes it make very unusual distortions and things. Setting it to Hardware Default makes it run smoothly for me. Try Hardware Default if it's not already set.

If that makes no difference, take a look at your Software Buffering also (same screen). It should be set to at least 100 mS in my experience with larger values working better (for me).

Good luck!

Brian.

bsuther · « **Reply #31 on:** August 09, 2015, 04:36:04 pm »

Thanks a million Brian - it worked!

blgentry · « **Reply #32 on:** August 09, 2015, 06:33:35 pm »

Excellent. Glad it worked for you.

Brian.

Peregrino · « **Reply #33 on:** August 10, 2015, 02:06:31 am »

Quote from: bsuther on August 09, 2015, 04:36:04 pm

Thanks a million Brian - it worked!

Which one did you alter - hardware or software buffering - or both?

xtraktz · « **Reply #34 on:** August 10, 2015, 03:45:23 am »

I have the same problem. It's described here
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=98827.0
Sorry for my English, it is not my first language. I think it is not dropouts, it is clicks. In case of integer mode turned on I cannot play nothing, only silence((

I don't have this problem on .112 build. With integer mode also works fine.

P.S. I have pre-paid for 21 version and worry that it will not be fixed in new version.

bsuther · « **Reply #35 on:** August 10, 2015, 11:14:56 am »

Quote from: Peregrino on August 10, 2015, 02:06:31 am

Which one did you alter - hardware or software buffering - or both?

I changed only the hardware option - I left the software buffering unchanged

Thebiglebowski · « **Reply #36 on:** August 13, 2015, 04:49:09 pm »

Quote from: JohnT on July 13, 2015, 07:44:07 am

I've reached out to Resonessence Labs and they are going to ship us a loaner unit for testing here. We'll post here if we find anything. Thanks.

p.s. which Concero model do you have?

One month on, is this working now as your software doesn't work with the Chord Qute I've just bought as well?

JimH · « **Reply #37 on:** August 14, 2015, 05:43:59 am »

Check back in a week.

glynor · « **Reply #38 on:** August 20, 2015, 06:25:24 pm »

It hasn't been a week yet.

Also, I understand that you're frustrated that Integer mode doesn't work with your new Mac Mini. But, as was pointed out above (and in many places elsewhere), Integer mode is about API efficiency, not playback quality. If it doesn't work, turn it off.

And, you seem to be of the opinion that you've "proven" that MC doesn't work in Integer mode with the current gen (radically different from previous generations, I'll add) Mac Mini's. That may very well be true, but you haven't proven that. Perhaps you've proven that it doesn't work with your Mac Mini, as currently configured. But your sample size is one.

Unless you've purchased and tried it with a dozen Mac Minis, all identical, and tried it with fresh software out of the box and nothing else added. If so, I'm sure JRiver would be interested in your test results.

Until then, it is an interesting and unfortunate data point but:
* It does not impact sound quality.
* We cannot know whether you have a "special case" in some way (conflicting software, hardware that doesn't work with the Mini hardware, a hardware lemon in some way, or a driver that doesn't work with that hardware from the DAC vendor).

There are way too many possibilities.

But, as Jim said, wait a week, and maybe they'll have something new to try. It's been 6 days since he said that, and tomorrow is Friday (and they often release new public builds on Fridays). Maybe not. Maybe something unexpected is broken and they have to delay. I don't know, for sure, what Jim was telling you to wait for. But... I fail to see the urgency.

Thebiglebowski · « **Reply #39 on:** August 21, 2015, 06:42:38 pm »

Quote from: glynor on August 20, 2015, 06:25:24 pm

It hasn't been a week yet.

Also, I understand that you're frustrated that Integer mode doesn't work with your new Mac Mini. But, as was pointed out above (and in many places elsewhere), Integer mode is about API efficiency, not playback quality. If it doesn't work, turn it off.

And, you seem to be of the opinion that you've "proven" that MC doesn't work in Integer mode with the current gen (radically different from previous generations, I'll add) Mac Mini's. That may very well be true, but you haven't proven that. Perhaps you've proven that it doesn't work with your Mac Mini, as currently configured. But your sample size is one.

Unless you've purchased and tried it with a dozen Mac Minis, all identical, and tried it with fresh software out of the box and nothing else added. If so, I'm sure JRiver would be interested in your test results.

Until then, it is an interesting and unfortunate data point but:
* It does not impact sound quality.
* We cannot know whether you have a "special case" in some way (conflicting software, hardware that doesn't work with the Mini hardware, a hardware lemon in some way, or a driver that doesn't work with that hardware from the DAC vendor).

There are way too many possibilities.

But, as Jim said, wait a week, and maybe they'll have something new to try. It's been 6 days since he said that, and tomorrow is Friday (and they often release new public builds on Fridays). Maybe not. Maybe something unexpected is broken and they have to delay. I don't know, for sure, what Jim was telling you to wait for. But... I fail to see the urgency.

I think the fact it works ok with Audirvana, Roon, Bitperfect and HQplayer on my Mac Mini is proof the problem lies with JRiver and not my Mac.

Of course I only care about my Mac because it is my Mac and the one I want to use JRiver on.

I also bought a Chord Qute in the hope that would resolve the issue but that just throws out white noise when switching between songs. The advice for that was "just resample everything to the same bit rate"

AndyU · « **Reply #40 on:** August 23, 2015, 07:50:18 am »

Just to point out (see the other thread) that I too still have issues with drop outs on a new base level mac mini. I am not using integer mode. And I'm only using the headphone socket - though when I tried with a Chord DAC I had similar results.

Thebiglebowski · « **Reply #41 on:** August 28, 2015, 07:58:39 am »

OK it has now been 14 days since I was asked to check back in a week.

Think it can be said that it is not my machine at fault and now another user has said they also have issues with a Chord DAC.

glynor · « **Reply #42 on:** August 28, 2015, 03:53:39 pm »

Did you try MC21? It has been out a few days now. That is, I think, what he was talking about.

I have no idea if it would make any difference.

alcarp · « **Reply #43 on:** August 28, 2015, 11:32:58 pm »

I have the same problem of stuttering with MC 20.0.126 when integer mode is chosen.

I running a mid-2011 mac mini with OSX 10.10.5. Hardware is 2.5GHz i5 with 8GB of memory.

I tried setting the hardware buffering to default with no luck.

Audirvana plays fine in integer mode on the same machine.

alcarp · « **Reply #44 on:** August 29, 2015, 12:49:18 am »

Correction ... when I closed the program and rebooted the mac Integer mode plays fine.

JohnT · « **Reply #45 on:** September 09, 2015, 10:59:33 am »

Ok, finally got this sorted out. The guys at Resonessence Labs kindly sent a Concero unit to us for testing, and my initial testing reproduced the problem but I couldn't figure out what the issue was. Then I went on vacation for a couple weeks and came back to a couple weeks of backlog. Now today I was testing again and stumbled on the problem - it's in the hardware buffering and *seems* to be a firmware problem on the Concero. When set to "hardware default" in Media Center integer mode plays fine, but when set to "maximum" hardware buffer size, the DAC plays mostly silence with intermittent clicks and pops. The "maximum" setting works fine when integer mode is not selected. I did some low level testing and found that the DAC reports a usable buffer range of 29 to 4096 frames. I set the buffer size to a small value and then progressively increased it and it started failing at 2044 frames. Music played fine up to 2043 frames but anything larger produced silence, clicks and pops.

So, the work-around if you want to use integer mode with this DAC is to select "hardware default" for buffer size. AND after changing this setting in Media Center, you need to reset the USB connection to the DAC (unplug/replug) to make it drop back to 512 frames as a default size (thus the comment by alcarp above about rebooting his computer to get it working).

Of course this problem became more apparent in Media Center because of the change in the default hardware buffer setting a while back, it used to be "hardware default" and was changed to "maximum" when we were trying things to reduce audio dropouts for some people. Now (as of 21.0.7) the default is back to "hardware default". This probably explains why for one user, integer mode was working on one of their computers and not the other - the buffer settings were probably different.

I've notified Resonessence about this so we'll see what they say.

JohnT · « **Reply #46 on:** September 09, 2015, 11:21:15 am »

Quote from: AndyU on August 23, 2015, 07:50:18 am

Just to point out (see the other thread) that I too still have issues with drop outs on a new base level mac mini. I am not using integer mode. And I'm only using the headphone socket - though when I tried with a Chord DAC I had similar results.

I think you're having a different problem - occasional audio dropouts rather than mostly silence with a few short bursts of sound, is that right?
If so (and since you're not using integer mode), try setting the hardware buffer to maximum and the software buffering to 1000 ms (1 second) to see if that helps.

Are your music files located on a networked file server? One thing to look at is high network activity during these dropouts. If you could have "activity monitor" open with the Network tab selected, see if the dropouts coincide with a burst of network activity. The reason I ask is that I just saw this happen on my system a couple times while playing high bitrate files on a remote file server and I'm investigating what's going on there. In my case, the app was running in debug mode so it's performance is throttled somewhat anyway, but there might be a clue here.

louis_d · « **Reply #47 on:** October 12, 2015, 01:50:09 am »

Mac OS X 10.7 has no difficulty running JRiver on a Chord 2Qute DAC (connected to my Mac Book Pro). However it fails sending data to the DAC through Yosemite (Mac OS X 10.10) on a brand new Mac mini (bought today). I was suspecting an issue with the USB 3 (only) ports of the new Mac mini but no. iTunes has no issue at sending the data to the DAC from that Mac mini. I have tried all the possible settings on JRiver without success. Is there any known issue and a fix coming soon? If more info is needed to troubleshoot this, just ask me. I am a bit at lost here. I want to really have this Mac mini work with my music.

blgentry · « **Reply #48 on:** October 12, 2015, 09:53:22 am »

What are your symptoms? No sound from MC? But other applications do play sound? Just verifying.

Try some "safe" sound settings in MC:

1. Tools > Options > Audio > Audio Device > (pull down menu to select your device. Don't use default. Use the name of your device)
2. (Same dialog box) > Device Settings :
Exclusive access: Uncheck
Integer mode: Uncheck

Channel Offset: 0

Buffering:
Software: 250mS
Hardware: Hardware default

Those settings should get you sound. Let us know how you do!

Brian.

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Author Topic: New Mac Mini stuttering on playback (Read 26346 times)