ICE
TCP/IP Products => TCP-PLUS => Topic started by: bbenhamou on June 12, 2008, 08:01:55 am
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Hello,
We have a big problem in my company, when our Outlook 2003 or 2007 is opened, we can not launch ICE TCP PLUS.
Application freeze and we can not access. If we close Outlook, this one is working fine.
Please, can you help me ???
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What version of PLUS are you using??
What version of Windows??
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ICE TCP PLUS version: 7.10a/32
Windows XP
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Help->About Dejawint should say something like:
DejaVu TCP PLUS for Windows
Build 27
Emulation Version 7.10a/32
Windows Interface version 8.5
What do YOU see??
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Your original 100-user license of PLUS is Build 23. You later upgraded to a 250-user license of PLUS Build 27. Did you update the 100 original users to Build 27?
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Hello Bob,
For new pc, we use this Dejawint.
Deanna,
Non, we dont update all users, on the same network, we are using 2 deja wint different application.
Is it a problem ?
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Hello Bob,
For new pc, we use this Dejawint.
So on the PC you are having trouble with, you are using Build 27 Dejawint?
If so, try copying the build 23 Deja32.exe from one of the other computers over the top of the Deja32.exe on the PC you are having trouble with. Let us know what happens.
Deanna,
No, we didn't update all users, on the same network, we are using 2 different dejawint applications.
Is it a problem ?
If it's build 23 and 27 you should be ok.
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Hello,
Yes we are using Build 27 deja32.exe on the computers that have this problem.
Sorry but i did not understand what you want i do.
Please, can you explain me again ?
Regards,
Bruno.
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Hi Bruno,
I'm trying to understand what could be causing your problem.
Let's see if I understand this,
If you start Outlook, then try to start Dejawint it doesn't work, right?
A couple of questions
1) When starting Dejawint, do you get the emulation screen with the copyright OR not?
2) If you get the emulation screen with the copyright, does the failure happen when you try to connect?
Maybe you could send me a screen dump to show what it looks like (if Dejawint launches but doesn't connect).
You could send it to:
bob<at>jriver.com
(replace <at> with @)
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Bruno,
I sent you something to try.
Also, based on your screen dump, I think what's happening is that PLUS can't make a telnet socket connect when outlook is running (on your machines anyway). This is because the opening screen with the banner and copyright doesn't show up until after a successful socket connection.
Based on this I think running outlook is causing your machine to block outgoing port 23 connects. It could be that it is outlook that is doing this or something else (like a realtime virus checker, or third party firewall). Try temporarily disabling any third party firewalls or virus checkers to see if that is the problem.
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Hello Bob,
I think than it s DLO application which is a client backup application that blocks ICE TCP.
When we kill the process ICE TCP start.
Please can you tell us how can we resolve this problem because we need to backup our workstations.
Regards,
Bruno.
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DLO is part of backup exec?
Are the backups pulled by a server or pushed by the client PC?
Perhaps you can use the windows scheduler to run the DLO process at night instead of having it running all the time or maybe tune Backup Exec's scheduler. I use msconfig to turn off stuff in the startup that I don't want.
I'm not sure there is a lot more I can tell you, I don't see why DLO should be doing port blocking just because it's doing a backup.
Backup Exec has gone through a LOT of owner changes, (Seagate, Veritas, Symantec and others). You might have to contact whoever supports the version you have to see if there is a fix.
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Hello,
It s not every time DLO that block the ICE TCP application. Outlook and Internet Explorer 7 make the same problem. If we close them, ICE TCP can connect to the Unix server.
Please, can you help us because we did not have this problem with the old ICE TCP version.
Bruno.
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It s not every time DLO that block the ICE TCP application. Outlook and Internet Explorer 7 make the same problem. If we close them, ICE TCP can connect to the Unix server.
Please, can you help us because we did not have this problem with the old ICE TCP version.
You are saying that the problem doesn't happen with the "old version".
Is build 23 the "old version" that you mention?
If so, would you go to a computer with build 23 on it, copy Deja32.exe from that computer onto a floppy or usb key, take it to a computer that is having trouble and copy it over the existing build 27 Deja32.exe (make sure dejawint is NOT running). Then see if you still have the problem on that computer with build 23.
Make sure it says build 23 when you try it on the problem computer (help->about dejawint). Let me know what happens.
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When i do this, i have an error because for the Build 23 version the file name is dejawint.exe and for Build 27 it's deja32.exe.
Error message: Cannot find TRIAL_LK.DLL.
Regards,
Bruno.
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When i do this, i have an error because for the Build 23 version the file name is dejawint.exe and for Build 27 it's deja32.exe.
Error message: Cannot find TRIAL_LK.DLL.
I don't think build 23 is dejawint.exe, that's the 16 bit version (4.3.1).
Build 23 and 27 are in the same place:
Program Files->J. River->ICETCPPLUS->Deja32.exe
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DLO - OUTLOOK 2003 - ICE TCP
Hi
We have the same issue with Build 21 Version 7.10a/32.
We have installed DLO on a few laptops and have noticed if you start up outlook first then ICE TCP it simply just hangs and you get no emulation screen no login nothing..it just tries to load then becomes unresponsive and you have to use task manager to kill it off.
If you run ICE TCP first then outlook it works...
Its something to do with ICE TCP OUTLOOK and DLO running at the same time
I have recreated this problem with all versions (trial) of ICETCP
Is there a solution for this ?
Thanks
G
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My best guess is that DLO is blocking outgoing port access when it's running with Outlook. Just to test this you could try running MS telnet instead to see if you can get a connect.
Start->Run
telnet 1.2.3.4
(change 1.2.3.4 to your unix machine address).
Dejawint's use of the MS sockets is very straightforward so I really don't see any solution from this end.
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Hi
Telnet works when both are running so it cant be port blocking by DLO as I presume ICE and TELNET connect in exactly the same way
Surely its ICE trying to talk over port 23 when everything else is running
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Did you try the same test? The other two first then telnet vs running telnet first?
There is really nothing tricky going on in Dejawint. It simply reads the .ini file from the windows directory then does a connect over port 23.
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Yup
Same test ... DLO on startup via windows startup so thats running when you log on
Then outlook
Then ICETCP = nothing
Or Telnet = Works fine
Im curious because as far as I know DLO and outlook dont touch port 23
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Try the build 28 demo. It uses a static mfc42.dll. Perhaps the DLO app is messing with the system one.
http://www.icetcp.com/products/download.html#plus
Other that that, I have no further ideas. I've talked with other developers here and we think it's possible that DLO and Outlook together are inserting some hooks into the system while running that are preventing us from getting to some important function.
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Hello,
I just test with 28 Build Demo and i have the same problem.
I confirm when the Build Demo 28 block, i can connect by Telnet to the Unix server.
If i close Oulook or DLO, the emulator working find.
Please help us.
Regards,
Bruno
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Hi
Having spoken to Syamntec they say its not a support issue with DLO and are unable to help further unless Jriver help putin someway.
Maybe a list of DLL files in use when ICE TCP is running ....or a list of all files that it uses.
There is a compatibilty issue with ICE and DLO running at the same time and Symantec have also mentioned that J River should maybe get in touch with Symantec to resolve this issue.
Thanks
G
We potentially have over 1000 users this will affect so we need a solution pretty quick...
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I think I have a solution
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What did you find crashpolo?
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Hi
Ok its not a brill solution but its a work around
DLO on startup
Then Run - ICE TCP FIRST , THEN OUTLOOK that usually works but you cant close ICE down
or
Set the dejawin32.exe to HIGH priority via a batch file and you can then open up the programs up in any order , however this will slow down the machine you are running on.
Its defo a problem with ICETCP ...so those files would be handy ...I think its how ICETCP talks to svchost...because outlook and DLO both use it as well...
Close down DLO when ICE is crashing ICE responds ....
A crashing ICE doesnt get to login screen it doesnt even load the menu bar
Hope this helps
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Hello,
For many weeks we are working on this problem and we have not a solution yet.
At this moment, I have many users that can not connect to our ERP so they can not work.
Therefore, we are waiting for a solution from you asap.
Regards,
Bruno.
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There is a work around Bruno like I discussed with yourself...
ICE TCP must start up before you use Outlook thats the only way it will work in a normal fashion.
Outlook / ICE and DLO all fight over svchost.exe and when all three are running ICE loses out and crashes kill off one of the other apps and it works
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Hello,
For many weeks we are working on this problem and we have not a solution yet.
At this moment, I have many users that can not connect to our ERP so they can not work.
Therefore, we are waiting for a solution from you asap.
Bruno,
We will try to do some checking on Monday (we are in the middle of a move). However, I know the code pretty well and I am pretty certain that we are not causing the problem.
Bob
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Hi Bob
But ICE is causing the problem we have monitored your software as closely as we can and when OUTLOOK and DLO all both in use ... ICE cannot connect to svchost.exe. I presume its how you call it and ICE then just crashes out.
Telnet works fine as does every other emulator but I have a 1000 users to work on so dont want to have to buy another emulator.
Im betting a 16bit version would work as it runs in its own memory space but I dont have a 16bit version to try.
Im quite happy to send screen shots if needed to try and prove what I say
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It's simply possible that DLO is blocking a service that telnet doesn't use and the PLUS does.
The 16 bit version is on your CD. I suspect that they might work as well because the 16 bit tcp/ip stack in windows is totally separate from the 32 bit stack.
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Hi
Can you list what services ICE requires and I can pass this on to Syamntec to see what they can find ...
Ill try and dig out the cd but if you can point me to a trial version of a 16 bit versionf or testing that would be ideal....
Can you see what im getting at here....if ICE and DLO are fighting then someone needs to fix it and I think altering ICE would be the easier option...plus I do think its ICE which is primarily at fault
If you could release a patch then a lot of customers would be happy including bruno !
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Hi
Can you list what services ICE requires and I can pass this on to Syamntec to see what they can find ...
Ill try and dig out the cd but if you can point me to a trial version of a 16 bit version for testing that would be ideal....
Since the 16 bit version was removed from support in 2004, it's not available as a trialware version any more.
All of the CD's have the 32 bit version as well as the 16 bit version and even a dos version on them.
Can you see what im getting at here....if ICE and DLO are fighting then someone needs to fix it and I think altering ICE would be the easier option...plus I do think its ICE which is primarily at fault
If you could release a patch then a lot of customers would be happy including bruno !
A) Maybe ICE would be easier to change, maybe not.
B) Since this is the only time I've EVER seen anything like this and since we are NOT hooking the OS in any intrusive way I see little reason to believe that Ice is the most likely to be at fault.
C) I will look into the exact calls we are using with the TCP/IP stack and let you both know as soon as I can.
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Hi
I can understand what you say but when your users are saying it is ICE casuing the problem and we are doing all the investigating maybe there is a little truth in it....im gonna run a process dump of the crashing deja32.exe and ill let you know what I find
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ICE windbg.exe report
Microsoft (R) Windows Debugger Version 6.9.0003.113 X86
Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
*** wait with pending attach
Symbol search path is: *** Invalid ***
****************************************************************************
* Symbol loading may be unreliable without a symbol search path. *
* Use .symfix to have the debugger choose a symbol path. *
* After setting your symbol path, use .reload to refresh symbol locations. *
****************************************************************************
Executable search path is:
ModLoad: 00400000 00496000 C:\Program Files\J River\ICETCPPLUS\deja32.exe
ModLoad: 7c900000 7c9af000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\ntdll.dll
ModLoad: 7c800000 7c8f6000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\kernel32.dll
ModLoad: 71ad0000 71ad9000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\WSOCK32.dll
ModLoad: 71ab0000 71ac7000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\WS2_32.dll
ModLoad: 77dd0000 77e6b000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\ADVAPI32.dll
ModLoad: 77e70000 77f02000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\RPCRT4.dll
ModLoad: 77fe0000 77ff1000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\Secur32.dll
ModLoad: 77c10000 77c68000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\msvcrt.dll
ModLoad: 71aa0000 71aa8000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\WS2HELP.dll
ModLoad: 7e410000 7e4a1000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\USER32.dll
ModLoad: 77f10000 77f59000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\GDI32.dll
ModLoad: 73000000 73026000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\WINSPOOL.DRV
ModLoad: 5d090000 5d12a000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\COMCTL32.dll
ModLoad: 76390000 763ad000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\IMM32.DLL
ModLoad: 629c0000 629c9000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\LPK.DLL
ModLoad: 74d90000 74dfb000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\USP10.dll
ModLoad: 10000000 10017000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\APSHook.dll
ModLoad: 5ad70000 5ada8000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\uxtheme.dll
ModLoad: 71a50000 71a8f000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\mswsock.dll
ModLoad: 662b0000 66308000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\hnetcfg.dll
ModLoad: 71a90000 71a98000 C:\WINDOWS\System32\wshtcpip.dll
ModLoad: 74720000 7476c000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\MSCTF.dll
ModLoad: 755c0000 755ee000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\msctfime.ime
ModLoad: 774e0000 7761d000 C:\WINDOWS\system32\ole32.dll
(3518.36c0): Break instruction exception - code 80000003 (first chance)
eax=7ffdf000 ebx=00000001 ecx=00000002 edx=00000003 esi=00000004 edi=00000005
eip=7c90120e esp=00a1ffcc ebp=00a1fff4 iopl=0 nv up ei pl zr na pe nc
cs=001b ss=0023 ds=0023 es=0023 fs=0038 gs=0000 efl=00000246
*** ERROR: Symbol file could not be found. Defaulted to export symbols for C:\WINDOWS\system32\ntdll.dll -
ntdll!DbgBreakPoint:
7c90120e cc int 3
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Crash, I sent you an email.
The dbg dump isn't really useful to us. I have something you could try that might narrow the problem down.
It'd require downloading the PRO demo and running it with a TERMINAL SERVER demo key (on a normal XP machine) then using remote desktop to connect to that XP machine and see if you still have the connect problem.
Check my email first though, it might be easier to try that test.
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I got the Backup exec 12 trialware.
What do I need to install to duplicate your environments?
The server on one machine and the remote option on the PC to test??
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Windows Server 2003 fully up to date
a windows xp machine fully up to date
office 2003 sp3
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Ok, we were able to reproduce this.
It looks like DLO is blocking some messages to outlook and when we send a font change message it's getting blocked because of the DLO/Outlook blocking problem. My supposition is that it is a bug in DLO.
We're coding a workaround.
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After I registered and updated outlook the problem went away!
I see you are on version 11.8169.8172
I ran microsoft update to get to 11.8217.8202
Can you check this on your side as well??
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Hello,
For me on my desktop my Outlook version is 12.0.6300.5000.
Regards,
Bruno.
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Bruno,
Is that the latest version of 12? The fixes could have been done to the different versions in parallel (I assume you've got office 2005 or something else newer than 2003).
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This is the Office 2007 version of Outlook. We have the same problem with Office 2003 on our company.
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This is the Office 2007 version of Outlook. We have the same problem with Office 2003 on our company.
I understand that. I'm trying to verify that you have the latest version of each (2003 and 2007).
When I installed the lastest version of 2003 as indicated by the post above the problem vanished.
Please at least check the version of one of your non-working machines with 2003 on it to my version:
11.8217.8202
I have a workaround that should do the job but I'd rather not correct a Microsoft error if it's not necessary.
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This is the Outlook 2003 version 11.0.6353.0 that I have on a computer which have the problem.
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Hi
Not heard from you in a while bob
The deja version you sent me causes a tcpip stack overflow ....but it does work first time round log back in again and it dies :(
TCP/IP has reached the security limit imposed on the number of concurrent TCP connect attempts.
For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
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I was out last week, thanks for the feedback.
We'll check into duplicating it here, so far I haven't seen that problem.
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Thanks almost there mate
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To all ,
Hi Symantec managed to figure out what was wrong and here is a solution...although its not the best one it does work
In the DLO admin screen edit each profile and under the options tab in the profile settings turn off / untick the options to enable pst files to be updated
If you untick these options ICE , outlook, DLO all work together happily.
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What are the PST files?
Did they give you any indication of why enabling the updating of them caused the problem??
Thanks for your help!!
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Hmmm, PST files are outlook mailboxes. Outlook when running is monitoring the mailboxes and DLO when running is looking for real-time modifications to those boxes to back them up at MESSAGE level (i.e. if a new message comes in while outlook is running DLO will try to back it up). DLO is doing something dicey here I suspect.
To disable this behavior, you need to edit the user profile as described above.
To get there run:
Start->Programs->Symantec Backup Exec for Windows Servers->Backup Exec 12 for Windows Servers
Then choose:
Tools->Desktop and Laptop Options
The backup exec desktop and laptop options program runs. Exit the wizard if it starts, then:
Click on Setup
Click on Profiles
Right click on the profile you want to change and do properties
Click on the options tab
Unclick any PST boxes under mail options
Done. Hopefully symantec will fix this soon.
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It possible that the font change blocking problem we discovered with yahoo messenger is the same problem that's causing trouble with dlo and outlook. We've tested a patch that works around the problem and it seems good here. Please contact sales (612-677-8200 and hit 0 to get the operator) and they'll send you a patch (you will need build 27 or newer to use the patch). Please test this on one machine and let us know if it solves your problem.