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[stanzani]

Hi am a newbie evaluating JRiver before purchasing.

I download the 30d trial version and playing with it.

I have a question about tagging Artists, composers and conductor: should I put surname first? how does name sorting works for JRiver?

I also noticed that adding tags propagate into files and it is not just in the library database. I also noticed that images are not added in the album / movie folder if I search images in the internet or import new itrms. is that correct? is there any option for put images in the item folders?

thanks much

[ferday]

you can sort any way you like, either last name, first name...or the other way round.  There are methods of tagging them one way, and sorting another way. if you go to options>tree&view there are some sorting options (like ignoring articles). 

if you go into options>file locations>cover art there are a bunch of things you can do with the art, including put them in the file and / or album folder

[stanzani]

Thankx ferday
I looked at the options as you in dicated but I could not find any suitable options wich fits with my concern except for ingnoring articles
The issue I have is that I tagged many file wit Syrname, Name while other files are tagged as Name, Surname ...
About file location it looks like JRiver put the cover arts in a local directory instead of the album forlder (which is a better otion IMO)

have a nice weekend

[Arindelle]

Thankx ferday
I looked at the options as you in dicated but I could not find any suitable options wich fits with my concern except for ingnoring articles
The issue I have is that I tagged many file wit Syrname, Name while other files are tagged as Name, Surname ...
About file location it looks like JRiver put the cover arts in a local directory instead of the album forlder (which is a better otion IMO)

have a nice weekend

Hi Stanzani

my 2 cents

universal tags standards don't exist for a lot of fields, however Artist, Composers and Conductors are standard using first name last name. When ripping this is what you will get automatically. Often, depending on the completeness of the metadata and which software you use you can get the more or less standard fields Artist, composer, and sometime conductor "sort fields too.  In JRiver you can create these fields.

Personally, I would recommend keeping these fields in First Name Lastname format for ripping and internet lookups, and using the sort fields for Last Name, First Name. (off-topic -- I do use Last Name, First Name for the Album Artist field just for classical music to handle my "Views" and keep albums together like I want -- but classical tagging is a big topic!).

After version 20 ther are functions called swap and unswap (and very recently in 21 this has been improved further recently). So instead of correcting manually your tags which wit a large collection you can save a great deal of time on this (euh I've been there). Consitency is where its at :)You can simplify your work by using the wizard or a smartlist to find all the tracks with a "comma" in them (LastName, First Name) and then simply type this in the field box from the tag window that you want to revert

=unswap([FIELDNAME])

eg. in the composer field you would type after selecting the tracks/albums =unswap([Composer]).

TRY THIS ON 1 or 2 albums and check to not mess 1000s of tracks up and always backup your library before doing this kind of manipulation After words you can do this in one shot (CTRL+Z for undo also just in case).

Now in your custom field, probably Composer Sort in this example, after selecting the tracks/albums, simply type

Code: [Select]

=swap([Composer]). It will automatically flip all the track tags and populate them to LastName, First Name. Some manual adjustments might be necessary, but it works very well now.

Then as ferday points out you have the choice to base your views on either the sorted version (lastname, firstname) or the "internet standard version".

About file location it looks like JRiver put the cover arts in a local directory instead of the album folder (which is a better otion IMO)

difference of opinion not shared by all -- I prefer keeping the artwork, pdfs, in the album folder -- there are reasons too legthy to go into. I also use the folder.jpg rule, but I'm old school  - technically the artwork should be embedded in each file so it is not that important,  most of the time.

I also noticed that adding tags propagate into files and it is not just in the library database. I also noticed that images are not added in the album / movie folder if I search images in the internet or import new itrms. is that correct? is there any option for put images in the item folders?

as said above you can configure where you want your iamges stored via the options. The tag info, you usually want it written to the files, this is a secondary backup that can save your life if your library backup file is corrupted and is also very handy if you use or change to other players so the metadata can be imported. To check to see if fields are writing to the file go Options=>Library & Folders=>Manage Library Fields and check or uncheck "save in file when possible" -- this depends on the container and media type -- most data type fields for FLAC audio can be written to the file for example (and probably should be); video files need or might need to write to a sidecar, wav files are very limited etc.

This is where you can create your sort fields btw, referred to above.

[stanzani]

thanks much for your consistent reply! (more than two cents yeah)
I as imndeed look on some methodology guidelines about tagging and you got it!

a nice weekend

[dtc]

To add to Arindelle's post, you can create custom fields using Tools - Options - Library and Folders - manage library fields. You can create a field that you simply enter data into or you can create one that includes an expression, like swap[Artist]. I use [Artist Sort] and [Artist Sort Manual]. [Artist Sort] has an express that uses [Artist Sort Manual] if it is filled in or swap[Artist] if it is not. That means usually you just use the swap[Artist] result, but you can override it with a manual entry if the swap does not produce the desired result. From example, swap will no produce the desired result for groups like Blood, Sweat and Tears or Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. For those you would enter the group name in [Artist Sort Manual]. The expression for [Artist Sort] would then be if(isempty([Artist Sort Manual],swap([Artist]),[Artist Sort Manual]).

If you are using Standard View with album covers, you can change the sort order by selecting the view name (Artist) at the top of the view and choosing Sort By. You can sort by just one field ([Artist Sort]) or you can use Custom and sort by multiple fields, like [Genre] then [Artist Sort] then [Album] (or [Date]. That gives you great control over the sort order. You can also enter Thumbnail text, which is the text under the album cover, for example [Genre] [Arist] [Name] on separate lines.

When creating custom tags, there is an option to save the tag in the file, if possible. That will include it in the library and in the file, if possible.

Custom fields and expressions are very powerful tools within Media Center. They can take a while to learn to use, but they are a major part of what gives MC such great flexibility.

By the way, you can create a backup of your library (File - Library - Backup) before you start creating custom tags and expressions, just in case you want to go back and start over again.

[stanzani]

BTW I did not find an option allowing to sort by surname and then name a field which is written in 'name surname'
Dimitri Shostakovich is filed under 'D'

[dtc]

BTW I did not find an option allowing to sort by surname and then name a field which is written in 'name surname'
Dimitri Shostakovich is filed under 'D'

You need to create the custom fields (tags) as I outlined and then sort by that tag. There is no default tag for surname. You have to do it using custom tags.

[Arindelle]

You need to create the custom fields (tags) as I outlined and then sort by that tag. There is no default tag for surname. You have to do it using custom tags.

yep, here you go

[dtc]

yep, here you go

That example is for creating a field that you enter the data into manually. So you would enter Shostakovich Dimitri, for example,  into that field. That would be my Artist Sort Manual field and only used if swap did not work as you wanted it to.  To use the swap function or the manual entry you need another field that has the expression to use either the swap function or the the manual field if filled. I suspect that is the Artist Sorted field in this example.

[Arindelle]

That example is for creating a field that you enter the data into manually. So you would enter Shostakovich Dimitri, for example,  into that field. That would be my Artist Sort Manual field and only used if swap did not work as you wanted it to.  To use the swap function or the manual entry you need another field that has the expression to use either the swap function or the the manual field if filled. I suspect that is the Artist Sorted field in this example.

yes more or less ... I use one field as the data string (FN LN); one data field for the sorted data (LN,FN often imported directly via my ripper anyways), and another which automatically does the swap (or not depending on a keyword trigger for me). Overkill maybe but safer for me. The OP would only need the one sort field for the moment ... baby steps. Calculation fields I use with care! 

He shouldn't have to manually fill out anything (except for those exceptions you mentioned) if the metadata is consistent.

What I suggested is first to isolate all the already swapped (LN,FN) back to FN LN so they are all consistent -- then typing  the swap function via the tag window, it would automatically fill in the new Artist Sort field. All he would have to type is the expression once or twice after testing.

[dtc]

yes more or less ... I use one field as the data string (FN LN); one data field for the sorted data (LN,FN often imported directly via my ripper anyways), and another which automatically does the swap (or not depending on a keyword trigger for me). Overkill maybe but safer for me. The OP would only need the one sort field for the moment ... baby steps. Calculation fields I use with care! 

He shouldn't have to manually fill out anything (except for those exceptions you mentioned) if the metadata is consistent.

What I suggested is first to isolate all the already swapped (LN,FN) back to FN LN so they are all consistent -- then typing  the swap function via the tag window, it would automatically fill in the new Artist Sort field. All he would have to type is the expression once or twice after testing.

Understood. I use Artist Sort Manual because, as you said, you only have to use it occasionally and the word Manual tells me where I have to made the change. Otherwise I cannot always remember which field to change.  But, both methods work.