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[Deders]

Hi.  I'm using JRiver Media Centre to bitstream Flac's over a network cable using DLNA to my Sony STR DN1050 and am very impressed with the way it handles the sound compared to Wasapi, which is also excellent, but for some reason the receiver sounds noticably better than my computer when it decodes flacs.

The Receiver supposedly supports DSD (and the like) bitstreaming natively, which shouldn't be surprising as Sony helped develop the format, but when I tick the appropriate box in the options, I get no sound when playing these kinds of files.  Leaving the box unchecked means that JRiver converts the file to a different format which it will then play back.

I was wondering if there were any specific settings for Sony receivers?  I've chosen the Audiophile 24 bit DAC profile, I vaguely remember having playback issues with the normal or Sony PS3 profiles.

There is a small thread on the product page about this where someone has taken a look behind the scenes to see what is actually happening, if it helps.

https://community.sony.com/t5/Home-Theater-Products/STRDN1050-how-to-play-DSD-over-DLNA/td-p/508737

Also will there ever be support for multichannel surround bitstreaming over DLNA?

[AndrewFG]

Please download the DMR analyzer from my sig, run the analysis on the Sony, and post the renderer report file here..

[Deders]

Thanks for the quick reply.  I hope these are the files you want.  I ran 2 tests, 1 for the receiver, and 1 for the JRiver virtual server.  they gave different results. 

When prompted to test the file types for either, I selected them all, they had different kinds, but none of the files appeared to test in the Render Tests tab.

This is for the Sony:  http://pastebin.ca/3431868

This is for JRiver:  http://pastebin.ca/3431874

Thanks.

[AndrewFG]

The Receiver supposedly supports DSD (and the like) bitstreaming natively, which shouldn't be surprising as Sony helped develop the format, but when I tick the appropriate box in the options, I get no sound when playing these kinds of files.  Leaving the box unchecked means that JRiver converts the file to a different format which it will then play back.

Thanks for the report. It indicates that the Sony can indeed play DSD via DLNA.
But I don't understand what you mean by "tick the box" -- can you please be more specific?

[Deders]

This is in the advanced section of the DLNA options



I seem to vaguely remember seeing another DSD bitstreaming option elsewhere but it didn't help.

I'm also thinking of enabling the bitrate field.  Could you advise on that?

[AndrewFG]

Before playing around with the Advanced settings, please tell us first what you have in the (basic) Audio Settings? If you have selected Original format, and your tracks are indeed in DSD format, then those tracks will be pushed in DSD format. Otherwise not.

[Deders]

Ahh wonderful.  I don't remember changing this setting so I presume it was set to "Specified format" by default?

It seems to be working for multiple formats (DSD/DSF) without using the conversion cache, and doesn't take anywhere near as long to start playback!

Thank you very much, I'll update the sony forum.

I don't suppose you would be in a position to comment on whether multichannel surround audio, both DSD and Flac are likely to be supported in the near future?

And what does the bitrate field option do?

Looking forward to experimenting more during daylight hours.

[JimH]

Thanks, Andrew.

[RolandG]

I don't suppose you would be in a position to comment on whether multichannel surround audio, both DSD and Flac are likely to be supported in the near future?

What makes you think multi channel isn't supported? I send multi channel files (DSD and FLAC) via DLNA to my OPPO-105 and they play fine.

[AndrewFG]

^

The bitrate field in MC determines whether it includes that attribute in the XML meta data that MC sends when issuing a play push command or responding to a library browse command. If the renderer knows the track size, duration, and bitrate, then it helps the renderer to calculate seek offset positions better. But in fact MC is not that great at seek support anyway, so you would probably not notice any difference whether you include it or not...

[Deders]

What makes you think multi channel isn't supported? I send multi channel files (DSD and FLAC) via DLNA to my OPPO-105 and they play fine.

Ooh interesting, Maybe I have a setting wrong somewhere?

If I try and playback multichannel DSD/DSF or Flac over DLNA, JRiver tries to play for a few seconds, locks up whilst it is trying, and eventually skips over to the next on the playlist.

I usually have to play these files over HDMI WASAPI using Foobar or MPC-BE.

Have just tested again to be sure, Stereo files playback fine, Multichannel reacts as above.

[AndrewFG]

^

The player does not advertise any capability to play multi channel PCM tracks, so I would be most surprised if it had the capability to play multi channel DSD either..

[Deders]

Ahh ok, that makes sense.  Bit cloudy headed right now, but doing my best to think...

It handles DTS/Dolby HD surround bitstreaming fine over HDMI.  

I've just tried a DTS encoded surround version of The Fragile (NIN) through JRiver DLNA, it comes out as static/white noise.

Does this mean if I were to set up a DLNA based media server (Separate computer to stream to various devices, instead of having all media on 1 computer as I currently have) that my Receiver wouldn't be able to understand surround DTS soundtracks for movies over the network?

Edit:  Interesting behaviour I've just noticed.  when trying to playback the DTS encoded surround audio, the playback method automatically switches from the usual device that I set playlists up in (STR-DN1050 BF6721 highlighted in blue) to the "Playing From STR-DN1050 BF6721" with the arrow next to it.  It also believes the file is a flac.

Usually the blue highlighted device results in DLNA playback.  When I use the "Playing From", it reverts to WASAPI, and checking the bitrate field option now causes issues with the "Playing from" device.



Have to go out for a short time, but can experiment more if it helps a bit later

Edit: Fwiw, these files bitstream in MPC-BE and Foobar, and my receiver recognises them as DTS.

[AndrewFG]

Does this mean if I were to set up a DLNA based media server (Separate computer to stream to various devices, instead of having all media on 1 computer as I currently have) that my Receiver wouldn't be able to understand surround DTS soundtracks for movies over the network?

According to the DMRA report that you posted, it has no capabilities at all for playing movies via DLNA.

[Deders]

According to the DMRA report that you posted, it has no capabilities at all for playing movies via DLNA.

Ok that's useful to know.  Strange though that the DLNA and DLNAExtra protocols aren't more standardised.  The receiver does have extensive video capabilities elsewhere.  I may have to look into another way of bitstreaming movies around the house.

Do you think receivers with more capabilities would allow the JRiver Media Centre to automatically interpret the DTS/Dolby audio streams correctly?  I know I've had to download separate codecs in order to get sound when playing videos with these kinds of audio containers on my phone.

My initial thinking on this was if there was a way for my receiver to understand DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD over DNLA, then maybe there would be the possibility to do something like the ASIO based solution JRiver developed for stereo (and surround?) DSD type files, which could be wrapped up in a Hi Def container like DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD, and transmitted like that.  Or would that defeat the point?

[AndrewFG]

My experience is that receivers do fairly good at Audio via DLNA, whereas bluray players and TVs do better at Video via DLNA. There are some devices (like the Oppo) which does good at both. However even the Oppo is not great since (e.g.) it does not support gapless..

[Deders]

My experience is that receivers do fairly good at Audio via DLNA, whereas bluray players and TVs do better at Video via DLNA. There are some devices (like the Oppo) which does good at both. However even the Oppo is not great since (e.g.) it does not support gapless..

Thanks, that is useful to know.  I was thinking along the lines of just using a TV and optical connection in one of the rooms.

[JimH]

My experience is that receivers do fairly good at Audio via DLNA, whereas bluray players and TVs do better at Video via DLNA. There are some devices (like the Oppo) which does good at both. However even the Oppo is not great since (e.g.) it does not support gapless..

The JRiver Id will do all of that.

[AndrewFG]

Ah yes. I never really thought of th Id as a renderer. Rather as a server. But you are right of course.

[JimH]

We did it to make a renderer that works.   A lot of people use it as a server.

[Deders]

We did it to make a renderer that works.   A lot of people use it as a server.

I'd probably better start a separate thread about this.  Will edit in a link later.

[Deders]

One more question: I assume that any DSP's will be bypassed when bitstreaming directly to the Receiver over DLNA?  So there is no point adding an EQ for headphone use for example?

[JimH]

Bitstreaming means that MC sends the data to the equipment without any processing.

[Deders]

As I thought thanks.  The only reason I asked is that some devices can apply it's own EQ when passing over say bluetooth (although it sounds different to analogue) and JRiver in some areas have gone beyond what I imagined possible