More > JRiver Media Center 21 for Windows

automatic switching bit depth

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EJR:
the multibit gungir is supposed to be very good.
and yes their dry humour is great.

i send them a mail asking about it as  some people state that all that is added are zeroes so it should not really mess with the filter, should it.

i'm still not sure why it shows 32bit depth in the audio path as i'm sure the dac max is 24  ?

i think i prefer to leave it at 24 then since the zone rules have odd side effects when you make manually playlists



--- Quote from: Arindelle on April 08, 2016, 06:25:27 am ---I've used Schiit Dacs, but never had a chance to check out the Ygdrasil, their top one.


Automatic should work no problem for the bitdepth.

One thing I'd do (or check at least that you have it set already), is go into DSP studio. Check the box for Output Format. Now this DAC handles anything up to 192kHz input. So make sure all settings are set to "no change" (or the exact kHz per sample rate but it results in the same thing). For sample rates over 192 you could try to downsample to 192. Maybe this DAC would have problems, over 192kHz. Regardless, with this DAC you don't want any upsampling going on.

If you do have multiple zones, you have to do this for each zone. But you don't need a specific zone for what you are asking for like Ferday said

There should be no issue with different bit depths/sample rates in a playlist with this ... never a problem with my other Schitt DACs, which also prefer native input IMO. You might perceive a "click" as some DACs, when switching bit depth is a slight but perceptible click. Never had this issue with their "non-multi" dacs though, so I don't this is going to be an issue. They do know JRiver there, and they are very helpful guys.

BTW -- I just love their sense of humor ... read the FAQ on this dac its a hoot, but edifying at the same time http://schiit.com/products/yggdrasil I'm wondering if I should get the multi-dac upgrade for a Gungnir ... this new one is out of my league price-wise

--- End quote ---

blgentry:
1. Bit depth.  As I understand it, the Yggdrasil pads all incoming data to 24 bits before the megacombo burrito filter anyway.  So 24 bit and 16 bit are treated similarly:  16 bit data just has 8 zeros tacked on to the end.  By the Yggdrasil itself.  So feeding it 16 bit data, or 16 bit data padded by MC to 24 bits (using zeros at the end) is identical as the Yggdrasil would just be adding the zeros anyway.
2.  32 bit.  Yggdrasil should drop the 8 extra zeros.
3.  Bit rates.  Yggdrasil uses the MCB filter on any incoming bit rate below 352,800 Hz.  So keep everything in the original format until you get above 384,000 Hz.  352,800 and 384,000 are treated specially, as they completely bypass the MCB filter.  Anything above 384,000 Hz should probably be down sampled to some other rate as Yggdrasil doesn't support anything above 384,000.

So, you should be able to play 16 bit and 24 bit files in the same playlist and not worry about any mangling of the bits.  MC and Yggdrasil should play nice together in this respect.

Brian.

RD James:
Automatic bit-depth in JRiver selects the highest bit-depth that your device supports, it does not automatically switch bit-depth based on the source.
You should always be using the highest bit-depth that your device supports.
 
It is never harmful to output a higher bit-depth than your source, this is not "upsampling".
If your 16-bit source is: 1111111111111111
Then a 24-bit output is: 111111111111111100000000
And a 32-bit output is:  11111111111111110000000000000000
 
These are functionally identical.
The advantage of doing this is that you no longer have to wait for the DAC to switch modes, since it's always using the highest bit-depth supported.
If there is any processing applied to the audio (even volume control is "processing") then it will always be performed in the highest quality possible.
 
If you reduce the volume by 12dB in 16-bit with a 16-bit source you have: 0011111111111111
If you reduce the volume by 12dB in 24-bit with a 16-bit source you have: 001111111111111111000000
If you reduce the volume by 12dB in 32-bit with a 16-bit source you have: 00111111111111111100000000000000
 
Two bits would be lost if your output was 16-bit, using a higher bit-depth retains those bits.
 

--- Quote from: blgentry on April 08, 2016, 06:57:47 am ---3.  Bit rates.  Yggdrasil uses the MCB filter on any incoming bit rate below 352,800 Hz.
--- End quote ---
Sample Rate, not Bit Rate.

(I'm sure you knew this and it was just a typo, as your reply was quite technical - just correcting it for anyone that didn't know)

EJR:
interesting info.

I wonder why the manual so specifically says to send native bit depth.
Is there a scenario in witch other bit depths could harm the signal, maybe too much use of digital volume control?


--- Quote from: RD James on April 08, 2016, 09:52:33 am ---Automatic bit-depth in JRiver selects the highest bit-depth that your device supports, it does not automatically switch bit-depth based on the source.
--- End quote ---

That makes sense seeing its behavior


--- Quote from: RD James on April 08, 2016, 09:52:33 am ---You should always be using the highest bit-depth that your device supports.
 
--- End quote ---

The 32 bit story makes sense but since i have no desire to use 32 bit (disk space alone is a good enough reason not too) i'm gona leave it at 24 bit.
All my music is either 16 or 24 bit it should not really matter.
I never use digital volume i prefer to actually prefer to have a physical limitation on the signal.
I had a processor go bezerk once during a live show creating a horrible noise at max volume. since my colleague doing the audio at that time was flabbergasted i quickly turned of the amps to safe everyone ears.


--- Quote from: blgentry on April 08, 2016, 06:57:47 am ---3.  Bit rates.  Yggdrasil uses the MCB filter on any incoming bit rate below 352,800 Hz.  So keep everything in the original format until you get above 384,000 Hz.  352,800 and 384,000 are treated specially, as they completely bypass the MCB filter.  Anything above 384,000 Hz should probably be down sampled to some other rate as Yggdrasil doesn't support anything above 384,000.

--- End quote ---

Afaik yggdrasil does not support signal above 192khz and a quick test up sampling to 352,8 khz confirms this.

anyway you guys convinced me there should not really be a problem leaving it at 24 bit Thanks for that!

edit:
the guys at shiit concur


--- Quote ---Use 24 bit, this covers you for 16 and 24 bit no problem. The sample rate should be used at the native rate.
--- End quote ---

blgentry:

--- Quote from: EJR on April 08, 2016, 12:56:17 pm ---Afaik yggdrasil does not support signal above 192khz and a quick test up sampling to 352,8 khz confirms this.
--- End quote ---

I stand corrected.  I was thinking of the Bifost Multi-bit.  Bifrost MB is NOS at 176.4 kHz and 192kHz.  So you really can bypass the MCBF on that model.  On Yggdrasil you use the MCB filter no matter what.  Internally the DAC runs at either 352.8kHz or 384kHz depending on what sample rate you feed it.  It uses a multiple of the rates it gets fed and MCBF upsamples to one of the two above rates.

Sorry for the (mild) misinformation.  ...and my use of the wrong terminology above (bit rate where I should have said sample rate).

Brian.

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