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[Zaronn]

Hi. I have some albums ripped in both flac and mp3, and in MC they mix together as one album. Does anyone have a good way to seperate them trough tags for example? I tried to change the album tag and add "flac", but that's not a good way since cover art and so on can't be found.

[CountryBumkin]

How about "File Type"?

[Zaronn]

Tried, that doesn't help. They still mix.

[ferday]

You need to sort / configure the view by file type...

The best solution really is to get rid of the MP3 that you have a lossless copy of

[blgentry]

Views are the answer to your question.  There are several ways to do it.  What views do you like to use?  Albums?  Artists?  Panes?

If you like Panes views, you can simply add a column to your Panes for file type.  Click on the file type you want (FLAC for example) and you'll only see FLAC files.  Click MP3 for file type and you'll only see those.

For Categories views (like Album and Artist with thumbnails), you can make copies of the views you like.  Then add rules to those views to show only the file type you want to see.  So, for example, you could have Albums (FLAC) and Albums (MP3), each limited to their own file type.

You can set these file rules through:  (Right click on view) > Customize View > Settings > Included files > Set rules for file display.

LOTS more information about view customization here:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=68960.0

Brian.

[Zaronn]

Hi. Thanks, that's sort of working. But not exactly what I want. But it's a solution. They still mix a bit (have to click album tree before they separete in mp3 and flac album). I was hoping it was possible to seperate them through tagging or something. So I don't need to have sevaral view trees and stuff.

[blgentry]

You can probably make a view that uses an expression for the category.  An expression something like:
[Album Artist (auto)] [Album] [File Type]

That should separate the albums out from each other properly.  Then you'll need to customize the thumbnail text too.  Something like:

[Album Artist (auto)]
[Album] ([File Type])

You can format it any way you want. That's just an example.

I don't have any albums like you do:  MP3 and FLAC copies.  But I *do* have a couple that are at different Sample Rates and I just tested this technique on them.  It works correctly.

If you need any pointers along the way, ask and we'll try to help.

Brian.

[Arindelle]

Not sure exactly what you want here, but I'm know you can do it with tags .... there are a lot of options

I'd normally do what Brian suggested already in detail. It depends on what the purpose is. I would imagine with local playback you would always want to play the flac files right? If that is the case in the rules for the view just select File Type IS NOT mp3. Done deal. Doesn't matter what type of view .. pane, category, theater, or remote.

But maybe you have some mp3s not in flac (I have a few) that you do not want to exclude. Then you can also do a variety of things like use the keyword field or create one that is similar. Find all the duped mp3; select them and tag them with something like exclude in one go. Then in your main views instead of IS NOT mp3 use the Keyword or other field to not include the files tagged with "exclude" if you follow me.

Some people keep different masters or have flac and DSD recordings for example ... that's something else, and usually they make a slight change to the Album Title. JR uses ALbum Artist (or Album Artist (auto)) + the Album titles as a un ID which is why they will regroup together if nothing is done about it.

A more elaborate expression could probably be made to exclude only the mp3s that are duplicates without tagging, but I have a lot of hidden or excluded files in my views and they help later on with admin (like when I get around to replacing the mp3s with good flac tracks). I find it a good idea to physically separate these too on my hard drives. Using tags you can then use the Move, Rename, Copy Tool (F6) to painless get them out from potentially the same album folders if/when needed). The new path for the mp3 part of the collection could then be added to your import config.

Lots of way to get there, but as I said depends on what you want to achieve. Also would depend if you are consistent tagging your [album artist] and [album] fields if you want to isolate the dupes easily.

[imeric]

Why do you need both?

I too would delete your MP3 equivalent and only keep the lossless file.

If you need them for a handheld JRiver is great at doing autoconversion on the fly especially from FLAC or ALAC to MP3...

That's what I did anyways and works like a charm.  

However I had a bunch of FLACs that I converted to ALAC for compatibility with iTunes that I still use to sync with my iphone.

My Ipod 5th gen, my Android phone or USB keys are all synced is synced with JRiver and it works great.

[dtc]

I have DSD, HI Rez PCM, HDCD and CD rips of the same albums. I just give them different album titles, with the format appended to the end if they are not CDs.  Not elegant, but it always works to separate the albums. When I tried to rely just on  tags, I could not, at a quick glance,  figure out exactly which format I was looking at. With it in the title, it is easy.

That said I do have a separate user defined tag for CD, Hi-Rez, Vinyl, MP3, Internet Radio, etc. I do not use it for separating the albums, but I do use it to label the albums in standard category view. The last line of the thumbnail text checks the user define tag and labels anything that is no a CD. That way anything other than CD stands out in the view.

That said, I do have a special view for vinyl and I do do that based on my user defined tag. But that is a special case. The tag is set automatically on import, since my vinyl files are all in a folder dedicated to vinyl.

So, different album names for sorting, user defined tag for labeling. As I said, not the most elegant, but it works.

[Zaronn]

Why do you need both?

I too would delete your MP3 equivalent and only keep the lossless file.

If you need them for a handheld JRiver is great at doing autoconversion on the fly especially from FLAC or ALAC to MP3...

That's what I did anyways and works like a charm.  

However I had a bunch of FLACs that I converted to ALAC for compatibility with iTunes that I still use to sync with my iphone.

My Ipod 5th gen, my Android phone or USB keys are all synced is synced with JRiver and it works great.

Well, as you must understand, some people need things for a reason. For example, I have old limited edition albums I have lost and I don't have physical anymore that where ripped in mp3, that I later bought retail album and ripped in flac. I don't wan't to delete the limited edition album because sometimes I would like to listen to det bonus tracks. And so on...

[flac.rules]

You can probably make a view that uses an expression for the category.  An expression something like:
[Album Artist (auto)] [Album] [File Type]

That should separate the albums out from each other properly.  Then you'll need to customize the thumbnail text too.  Something like:

[Album Artist (auto)]
[Album] ([File Type])

You can format it any way you want. That's just an example.

I don't have any albums like you do:  MP3 and FLAC copies.  But I *do* have a couple that are at different Sample Rates and I just tested this technique on them.  It works correctly.

If you need any pointers along the way, ask and we'll try to help.

Brian.

Views only solves things on the desktop-client though, playing via JRemote/Gizmo still causes problems with these albums.

[Arindelle]

Views only solves things on the desktop-client though, playing via JRemote/Gizmo still causes problems with these albums.

? I don't see why? As long as you set up the views separately (rememeber, unfortunately perhaps, you have to set up your views 3 times one for each mode, other than some functions that only work in Remote/Theater Modes and some that only work in Standard Mode. Filtering, sorting or excluding file type and grouping albums correctly (provided album artist is correctly tagged!) works fine in all modes.  You just can't use Panes in the other "modes."

maybe another thread though if you need some help on this Elvis

[flac.rules]

? I don't see why? As long as you set up the views separately (rememeber, unfortunately perhaps, you have to set up your views 3 times one for each mode, other than some functions that only work in Remote/Theater Modes and some that only work in Standard Mode. Filtering, sorting or excluding file type and grouping albums correctly (provided album artist is correctly tagged!) works fine in all modes.  You just can't use Panes in the other "modes."

maybe another thread though if you need some help on this Elvis

I don't need help, just stating facts, If you in a mobile client search for an album, and play it, it is not handled well when you have duplicates like this. Just try it, you will get 1,1, 2, 2, 3, 3 and so on, instead of playing the tracks in order.

[Arindelle]

I don't need help, just stating facts, If you in a mobile client search for an album, and play it, it is not handled well when you have duplicates like this. Just try it, you will get 1,1, 2, 2, 3, 3 and so on, instead of playing the tracks in order.

hey no patronizing intended. But "facts"?. Sure if you don't do anything, they will indeed come up that way if an album artist and an album are the same.  Normal.

For the dupes to be removed (being one mp3 the other flac) you just make a view that excludes one file type OR you can find the dupes and tag the ones you don't want to hear and set up a rule to filter the tagged to be excluded. Maybe my explanation wasn't that clear.

If you actually want to access the two, which would be not normally be the case between flac and mp3. But might be the case between DSD and flac or a high rez master. If so they are no longer really duplicates so you'd have to either rename the album or make a category, like file type or bit depth, above Album Artist. So you then just "drill down" add the option to "show all" would revert back to the 1,1 2,2 if needed. or just show the files you want shown and grouped under the Album

[blgentry]

For example, I have old limited edition albums I have lost and I don't have physical anymore that where ripped in mp3, that I later bought retail album and ripped in flac. I don't wan't to delete the limited edition album because sometimes I would like to listen to det bonus tracks. And so on...

The case you are describing is two different versions of the same album.  As such, you would normally give one album a different title, or at least annotate another field with that information.  For example, I have a field called "album_info" where I put information that distinguishes one album from another.  I have Donald Fagen's "The Night Fly" from both CD and DVD-A.  For the DVD-A version, I have this text in album_info:  DVD-A - 2002

That shows me the original source of the release and it's unique release date (2002), which is different from the date that the album was actually recorded (1982).  I could just put that information at the end of the album title.  That would fix any problems in JRemote I believe.  I like my way for right now, but I don't use JRemote or Gizmo very much.  If I did, I might develop a different solution.  I wonder what our man ferday has to say about all of this.  He has many, many different versions of various albums.

Brian.

[ferday]

If you use a different field (like album_info) you can use that field to structure a view, which JRemote respects and sorts properly

for example I use album info, file type, and source (and others) tags so I might have
Nirvana-nevermind-1991-flac-cd
Nirvana-nevermind-1991-(2011)-flac-hdtracks
Nirvana-Nevermind-1991-flac-cd-Japan

The album name itself isn't changed but they appear as separate albums in MC and JRemote (and DLNA) by sorting on the extra tags...it does create a bit of havoc with actual searching in JRemote, but I don't use searches very often on the mobile

[blgentry]

If you use a different field (like album_info) you can use that field to structure a view, which JRemote respects and sorts properly

Yep.  Though on Gizmo the descriptive text is very limited so you can't always see exactly what you're looking for in the displayed name.

...it does create a bit of havoc with actual searching in JRemote, but I don't use searches very often on the mobile

...and that's the rub.  Searches don't work properly.  I may have to figure out some other scheme for naming.  Searching is a large part of how I use Standard View.  Since I don't use the remotes much, I'm not sure what I'll do, but I suspect that I'll want searches to work properly too.

Brian.

[ferday]

A search in standard view is returned in the same view that was searched from, so it should work fine...

It doesn't currently work in JRemote (I don't know gizmo at all) because it gives back a proprietary search result format

[blgentry]

A search in standard view is returned in the same view that was searched from, so it should work fine...

Yes, searches in Standard View work exactly as expected with any view scheme.

It doesn't currently work in JRemote (I don't know gizmo at all) because it gives back a proprietary search result format

I've only used JRemote a couple of times as I don't have any i-devices.  But I suspect the search results are similar in Gizmo and JRemote.  As you say, they don't obey any particular view; they are their own thing.  ...and they only show one entry per album, and then add ALL albums with that name if you choose to play them.  Again, I don't use gizmo much, but I'm planning on having JRemote on a tablet, which I think I'll use a lot more. So, just planning for future use here.

Brian.

[imeric]

@Zaronn,
Dully noted!!  I have similar cases as well... Kinda like ripping my old tapes I recorded off the radio years ago...Sound is not the greatest but I still like to listen to them, not for sound quality but to bring back memories!

Just trying to help!

 

[AixiA]

Good evening, I am having the exact same issue and I am quite surprised to read this 4-year issue is not addressed out of the box yet!

When ripping my CDs, I systematically make 2 copies: 1 mp3 and 1 flac to listen when on the go or at home. This is not going to change in the near future. At the same time, I have other mp3 or flac albums (not duplicated) present in my library. Overall, 1 parent directory for mp3 albums, another 1 for flac albums, each album being in its own sub folder.

What I am looking for is to be able to browse my album collection seeing each album individually (not stacked if both mp3 and flac versions exist). This is the behavior I got out of the box in Roon, Audirvana or muso, that I am evaluating at the moment before selecting 1 solution. mp3/flac albums are stacked in JRiver and tracks mixed: an absolute no-go for me!

Thanks for your precise recommendations to reach the expected result.

[wer]

Welcome to the forums.

There were approaches described in this very thread, as well as other threads, to achieve the result you desire, or any variation of it.  There are many ways to do it, both using Views and other methods.

The notion that there's an "issue" stems from a misunderstanding about the nature of storing multiple copies of the same album.  Some people would say that two copies of an identical set of tracks are redundant, and should be managed implicitly so as to insulate the user from redundant information.  Others believe that the information is not redundant and that the mere difference in file format implies they comprise separate albums and should be treated accordingly.  Both beliefs are valid.  The fact that you personally believe one of these does not invalidate the other philosophy.  JRiver can accommodate both or either, or more, if the user performs the proper configuration.  Insistence that it must be your approach that is adopted "out of the box" is nothing less than saying the beliefs of those who prefer other philosophies are irrelevant or inferior.

Saying that a 4-year old issue is not addressed indicates that you may not understand that the software was already able to perform the function 4 years ago.  Do you not understand the approaches described previously?

If you would like to describe what you have actually tried to do to get different formats to display separately, and where it went wrong, then perhaps people would be better able to give you some assistance.

[AixiA]

Thanks for your 1st feedback.

I obviously tried the recommendations listed at the beginning of this post (as I understood them adapting them for Album view noting there are probably many ways to do it wrong - hence my need for precise recommendations), and it does not work. Then, the rest of the answers/proposals - if relevant - are here just to convince the initial requester to change his library...

Below screens shots of what I have, did, and would like.

I would appreciate more specific advice to reach my target Album view.

What I have now:


The view customization:


What I have want (Muso in this case without tweaking):

[wer]

I was interested in what you had actually tried, and where it went wrong.  If you had tried blgentry's suggestion (correctly) you would have seen that does indeed work.

I'll give you my method, which I like a little better.  But this can be done in many ways.

1. Create a user defined field, called AlbumByType  and set the Data type to "Calculated Data".  This is accessible in Options->Library & Folders->Manage Library Fields
2. In the Calculated Data entry box, enter this expression, then click ok:
[Album] ([File Type])
3. Now modify your Album view, and in the categories list simply replace the reference to Album with AlbumByType

This uses the Expression Language to automatically populate a new field for all the albums in your library. You can then reference that new field like any other.  You could change the field to be structured differently, but the key is to incorporate [File Type] which is part of how you want  to differentiate.

If you'd like the text to display differently, simply change the Thumbnail Text for your view. This is accessible from the dropdown menu on the tab itself. You can make it display anything you want using the Expression Language.
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Expression_Language

Good luck.

[5ijzsahyhxz9@opayq.com]

I followed your detailed instructions and it worked fine in regards to the target i.e. separating albums by file type. Thanks a lot! (I had not enough knowledge and guidance to follow blgentry' suggestion).

However, the new view grouped albums with the same name and file type together (as a matter of fact, the 2 albums shown in my examples named "3" by Pole and Falco, which are both mp3).

I created then a new user defined field (called AlbumArtistFile) as you indicated, but with the following fields: [Album] [Album Artist (auto)] ([File Type])

This seems to serve its intended purpose as much as I could check so far, and not disrupting the various artists albums either.

I have 2 additional "tweaking questions":

• How would it be possible to use [File Type] to separate albums, but not display the file type (mp3, flac in this case) as in my target example (or just flac for instance)? and/or instead
• Display the album's name in a different color if - for instance - flac?

I may be able to fumble and try few things for 2., but have no idea about 1.

Help would be very appreciated on both points.

[wer]

As to your first issue, albums of different artists being grouped together, this depends on your view structure.
Views can have levels, called categories.  If you have a structured view with multiple categories/levels, things are filtered at each level. Compare your Artists view to your Albums view.  The Artists view has a top-level Category of Artist (or perhaps "Album Artist"), and Album comes next. So what you saw wouldn't occur, as Pole and Falco would have already been separated. If you want a "flat" view, you do as you did.

Regarding how you want the text to display, please refer to what I already told you:

If you'd like the text to display differently, simply change the Thumbnail Text for your view. This is accessible from the dropdown menu on the tab itself. You can make it display anything you want using the Expression Language.
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Expression_Language

So look at that and read the article.  You can change the Thumbnail Text, which is what displays immediately below the album cover thumbnail, to whatever you want, and in colors if you want.

To play around with different colors, I suggest you google "jriver thumbnail text color" and you will see a couple of threads where people are doing exactly that.