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[Lefisu63]

After a very long time I re-try MC and I have some questions regarding "Analyze Audio".

1. Am I right that these MC terms are

"Peak Level (Sample)" = The normal max. peak level of a track
"Peak Level (R128)" = The max. "True Peak" (EBU R128) of a track
"Dynamic Range (DR)" = exactly the same value and logic as known from the TT Dynamic Range Meter or foobar2000 plugin
"Dynamic Range (R128)" = is this exactly the LRA (Loudness Range)
"Volume Level (R128)" = The difference of the LUFS (-23) and the "Integrated Loudness"?


2. To complete the nice statistic values it would be great to see some more which are very helpful to sort out the preferred version of the same song from different releases:

Avg. RMS db (as written by TT Dynamic Range Meter + foobar2000 plugin)
Max. RMS db
Max. Momentary (LUFS)
Max. Short-Term (LUFS)

and especially the new PLR = "Integrated Peak to loudness Ratio" e.g. shown in this "Dynameter Ian Sheppard" video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv67sjuq2go which replaces the TT-DR ("PLR & PSR are effectively LUFS versions of DR or 'crest factor'").

Maybe also a "Max. PSR" might be useful.

Also maybe possible the "Dynamic Range (DR)" and "PLR value" with a decimal (no integer)?

Thanks a lot.

[Arindelle]

+1 for PLR (not so sure I'd look forward to reanalyzing all of my tracks though , last time it took three days) Not sure why Max Psr would be useful though?

dumb question could the TT Dynamic plugin be made to be importable into JRiver, like foobar? Not sure what this would entail.

[RD James]

+1

The DR results alone aren't always a good indicator of mastering quality.

[blgentry]

+1

The DR results alone aren't always a good indicator of mastering quality.

I hear this advice repeated pretty frequently.  I'm aware of good recordings versus bad recordings and those in between.  But the truth is, if you compare modern recordings of the SAME ALBUM, the one with the larger dynamic range is pretty much always the winner.  But you don't need JRiver MC for that.  All you need is the dynamic range database.  I use it rather heavily when trying to decide which version of a used CD to purchase.  MC's Dynamic Range measurement is a nice verification that I've gotten the version of the album that I thought I got.

Brian.

[RD James]

I hear this advice repeated pretty frequently.  I'm aware of good recordings versus bad recordings and those in between.  But the truth is, if you compare modern recordings of the SAME ALBUM, the one with the larger dynamic range is pretty much always the winner.  But you don't need JRiver MC for that.  All you need is the dynamic range database.  I use it rather heavily when trying to decide which version of a used CD to purchase.  MC's Dynamic Range measurement is a nice verification that I've gotten the version of the album that I thought I got.

Brian.

I don't think that's always true.
I have some Steve Hoffman remasters which sound better than the original releases even though the DR value is lower. The HD release of the same album scores lower than that again and sounds worse, but DR is not always an indicator of quality.

From one album:
Original: DR13
Remaster: DR11
HD Release: DR8

[blgentry]

I only know of Steve Hoffman through reading threads on his forum.  I know he's a prominent audio engineer, but I don't really know much about audio engineers; meaning I haven't studied who recorded or mastered what recordings or artists, etc.

So I might have some Steve Hoffman stuff and not know it.  Or I might have none.  My collection is very small compared to a lot of people here.  Any recommendations?

I think his work is probably the exception rather than the rule though.  Maybe you disagree.

Brian.

[mojave]

dumb question could the TT Dynamic plugin be made to be importable into JRiver, like foobar? Not sure what this would entail.

Are you talking about the VST plugin? It works fine in JRiver already.

[Arindelle]

Are you talking about the VST plugin? It works fine in JRiver already.

Hey thanks, that's great! for some reason I thought I had to load foobar.

[ferday]

So I might have some Steve Hoffman stuff and not know it.  Or I might have none.  My collection is very small compared to a lot of people here.  Any recommendations?

I think his work is probably the exception rather than the rule though.  Maybe you disagree.

Once DR gets much below 6 or 7 it's a sure fire loser, but some modern remasters (especially of older, "hot" vinyl) have such a good mix (you'll often hear about the audible bass) that the drop from vinyl DR15 to modern DR7 is worth it and does really sound better.  Steve Hoffman has gained some reputation for great mixing.  I have a few of his, he did a bang up job on some Kate Bush albums that I love.  His discography is listed on his website

The point being that there is mix and master, and a great mix can help with a compressed master, while the most open master can't make up for a terrible mix

As a huge collector and fan of metal (often dense and fast) the modern hyper compression <DR5 is a personal hot topic, but I have heard some DR6 that sounds good thanks to a beautifully balanced mix

[Lefisu63]

Hi guys,

• I don't want to look into a Dynamic Range Database. The content is millions of miles away and finally obsolete without PLR.
  
• I want to see the data of the files I own.
• PLR and is the effectively LUFS version of TT-DR value (and finally the better "Dynamic-Range-Indicator") - see the videos on the initial thread.
• "Max. PSR" is more or less automatically there when PLR will be "calculated". Why not take use of it and offer it to store. Maybe someone needs it.
• RMS is still a missing factor about sound quality. Must be there when you calculate the TT-DR because RMS depends on it. So please store RMS also (follow Ian Sheppard's video - he his talking about that also on the latest videos!)

I don't want to discuss about quality of tracks here but DR or PLR is not the only factor. Also EQ, loudness, leveling (RMS) and if a remaster sounds aggressive or not, etc. ... and finally the hardware and how you sort out the better version.

I collect 70s, 80s & 90s club music (disco, synth-pop, house, etc.) and try to find the best sounding version on CD for me (and for djing!) of the tracks I love (djing since 1983). Most of the time I want the CDs from the 80s but sometimes the EQ is flat. Mastering quality depends on country because back in the time each country did his own mastering from analoge master tapes (professionally copied - but sometimes taken from single tapes, album tapes - quality is different everywhere).

That's why the values are important for me - and as far as I can see a lot of people from here are doing this. We can sort over the complete archive and find out "visually" of which tracks we would need a better version (and finally search the market).

So if you can implement

• Avg. RMS db (must be there internally because you calc DR) - Prio 1
• Max. RMS db (must be there internally because you calc DR) - Prio 2
• Max. Momentary (LUFS) (could be there internally because you calc R128) - Prio 2
• Max. Short-Term (LUFS) (could be there internally because you calc R128) - Prio 2
• PLR - Prio 1
• Max. PSR (there when you calc PLR) - Prio 2

it would be absolutely great.

No other tool would exist which calculates all the values over all files in one batch! You can export into a .csv and you can write it into tags of the files!


Note:

I'm not sure if PLR is a weighted sum of all PSR because "integrated" loudness is using the gap filters - Momentary & Short-Term don't take count of the gap filters (R128). Maybe you have to ask https://www.tcelectronic.com/?

E.g. search for PLR here

http://www.tcelectronic.com/lmn/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war#Loudness_in_broadcasting

One of the newer plugins
http://www.nugenaudio.com/mastercheck-playout-loudness-and-dynamics-metering-aax-au-vst_41#prettyPhoto/0/

... and finally - please let us choose the numbers of decimals for all values we want to see & save into the files. Currently I see a mixture of 0, 1 or 2 decimals. E.g. I would prefer 1 or 2 decimals. On e.g. one of 20 files MC calculates DR13 and TR returns DR14 - the truth is in the decimal which I can't see.