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Author Topic: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15  (Read 4655 times)

Mike48

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Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15
« on: August 09, 2016, 09:50:55 pm »

MC 22.0.15 on Windows 7/64 Professional.

I just updated to MC 22 and have found two issues in the tagging window, both having to do with tags for which a checkbox list appears. Maybe they are the same issue.

1 - I have a tag "keywords" and have used a small number of keywords, maybe 12 in total. These used to appear in a selection list (I think) in MC 21, or at least they would autocomplete. Now, when I click in the field to add keywords, a huge list -- seemingly a dictionary of such words as "8th", "ab", "acupressure," and so on appears. I don't know where these words came from nor why they are listed as potential keywords. Given that the list includes proper names and such, it seems to be a list of words I have added to the system spelling dictionary at some time. Why is this appearing here?

2. - I have a tag "chorus", which has had fewer than 100 different entries. Now for some reason, I can't find a way to enter a new value for this field. A list of checkboxes appears with all the choruses entered so far, but how to enter a new one?

In both cases, the list of checkboxes appearing onscreen extends behind the taskbar, so I can't see the bottom entries without hiding the taskbar.

I should also say, in general, I would rather have autocomplete from previous values than have to pick from a long list that requires scrolling.

Thanks,
Mike
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blgentry

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Re: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15 (bugs)
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2016, 09:56:54 pm »

For #1 I'm relatively certain that you are now seeing the full list of keywords across *all* of your files.  You can easily check to see with (at least) 2 ways:

A.  In a Panes view, add your keywords column.  Now click on any entry and it will show you the files that have the keyword you clicked on.

OR

B.  In the search box at the top type:  keyword="your keyword here"   Again, this will show you a list of the files that have that keyword assigned.

For your #2, I'm having trouble visualizing what you're describing.  But it's late and I'm tired.  Maybe post a screen shot?  Or maybe someone else will understand.

Brian.
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Mike48

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Re: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15 (bugs)
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2016, 10:12:18 pm »

Brian:

Your guess about #1 is not right. I tried keyword=abenomics (one of those odd words in the list) and nothing showed up. Same for some of the other odd words. Somehow MC has got the wrong set of words as suggestions. As I said, I think it's the system (not MC) list of words I have added to the spelling dictionary.

When I added a Keywords column into Panes View, only the correct 18 keywords (the ones I have actually assigned to tracks) showed up (along with All Keywords and Unassigned). None of those odd words showed up.

As to #2, all I'm saying is, when I open the tagging window (Action Pane) and click on the "Chorus" field, immediately a list pops up with all the values I've ever entered into that field. I can't find a way to enter a new value for this field in a particular track or tracks. Is that clearer?

Mike
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Mike48

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Re: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15 (bugs)
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2016, 10:19:45 pm »

Brian,

I realized I tried adding the Keywords column to my own Panes View, which subsets genres.  I added it to the default panes view, and all those keywords showed up, as you suspected -- in various podcasts. 

  • This didn't happen in MC21. Why now?
  • How can I make it go away, short of deleting all my podcasts?
  • I would like keyword lists to be genre-specific!

Thanks,
Mike

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blgentry

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Re: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15 (bugs)
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2016, 10:37:18 pm »

I can think of at least 2 ways to help "fix" this for you:

A.  Select all of your podcasts.  Open the tagging pane and delete all keywords.  Might take a few minutes to uncheck them all, but shouldn't be too bad.

B.  In the view where you are maintaining these keywords for your "not podcasts", set a top level rule that says [Media Sub Type] is not "Podcast".  I think that will do it, but you'll have to test it to be sure.

BTW, this new behavior you are seeing is the result of a change that was made in MC22.  Previously, when you had 50 or less keywords (or other list fields) it would show you all 50 (or 49, or 38, or however many you have), all with check boxes next to them.  When you got to 51, it instead shows you only the ones that are checked and lets you search in the box below.  Now, the new limit is something like 200 so we can see many more keywords with checkboxes next to them.  This makes rapid tagging much easier.

Your description of problem #2 makes sense, but I don't know where the search box may have gone.  The search box is both a pull down menu *and* a text entry field.  I still see it in all of the views I've tried.  This is one reason I suggested the screen shot.  So we can see what you see.  :)

Brian.
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Mike48

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Re: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2016, 12:26:03 am »

OK, for #1, the view I normally use excludes podcasts, so excluding them does not work. I don't know why in MC 21 I didn't get all these crazy keywords, only the ones that I had entered. Since I was using a view that excluded podcasts, is it possible that MC 21 filtered the available keywords by view, and MC 22 does not?  I would like to get that back again. I don't even remember it popping up a list until I started typing.

I am not too keen about deleting all the crazy keywords manually, as I'll have to do it every time a new podcast downloads. Seems like a lot of work just to get back old functionality.

As to #2, I've attached a screenshot. For some reason, the list now is not behind the taskbar, but that's not the main issue. I can't see where one can enter a value that is not already on the list.

And really?  People find it easier to work with huge lists of items than to use autocomplete?  I must be an anomaly in this, as I am in many other things. For me, this makes tagging slower, not faster.

Thanks,
Mike
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blgentry

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Re: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2016, 08:30:34 am »

I am not too keen about deleting all the crazy keywords manually, as I'll have to do it every time a new podcast downloads. Seems like a lot of work just to get back old functionality.

It's one solution.  There may be a way we can automate deleting the keywords from podcasts as they are imported; not really sure, as this is new territory for me.  I don't use podcast functionality with MC.

Quote
As to #2, I've attached a screenshot. For some reason, the list now is not behind the taskbar, but that's not the main issue. I can't see where one can enter a value that is not already on the list.

Ok, I see the problem and the cause.  You're using a half height tagging window.  Click the little circle in the title of the tagging window to make it full height.  Then the list entry box will work correctly for you.

Quote
And really?  People find it easier to work with huge lists of items than to use autocomplete?  I must be an anomaly in this, as I am in many other things. For me, this makes tagging slower, not faster.

Yes really.  :)  Here's the deal:  Pretend you have a list of 51 to 100 keywords that you use constantly.  You assign 2, 3, 4, maybe 5 of them to almost every file you import.  So you select your newly imported file, click keywords, and up pops your list of (as many as) 100 keywords.  Because they are in alphabetical order, you quickly find what you want, by using the mouse scroll wheel, and click check boxes next to the keywords you want, as you go down the list.  Click, scroll, scroll, click, click, scroll, click, Done.  Very, very fast. 

Trying to do this same operation by searching is way, way slower because you have to type at least part of each word.  Or, at least you have to click on the search box each and every time you want to add a keyword, then scroll the list *from the top* each and every time.  Repeat this for 5 keywords and it's VERY slow by comparison to scrolling one list.

This would work great for you, except that your keywords list is "contaminated".  It keeps getting new keywords inserted into it that you did not intend.  Which brings me to a possible alternate solution for you actually:

Make a new Library field, with a new (but easy to remember) name.  Something that really describes what you are using this field for.  Then, simply copy over the 12 or 15 words you are using from the files you care about (NOT the podcasts!).  You can do this in one shot by highlighting and doing a field copy operation.

Then, your NEW list will not ever be contaminated with un-needed and un-wanted words.  It will only be maintained by you and shouldn't require any changes.  It should look just like the old list.

If you want to try this and need help with any details, just ask, and I'll try to help you along.

Good luck!

Brian.
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Mike48

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Re: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2016, 08:11:12 pm »

Brian,

I bit the bullet and removed all keywords from podcasts, which took care of it for now.

As to the list boxes being poorly designed, that is being discussed in another post, so I added my comments there.

I do think that the retained keyword list should depend on Genre or on the View, not just be an amalgam of all keywords. It was not like this in MC21.

Mike
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blgentry

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Re: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2016, 08:14:39 pm »

I bit the bullet and removed all keywords from podcasts, which took care of it for now.

I'm glad you have a workaround for now.  :)

Quote
I do think that the retained keyword list should depend on Genre or on the View, not just be an amalgam of all keywords. It was not like this in MC21.

I'm relatively certain that the keywords from podcasts were all there before too.  You just didn't notice them because the total number of keywords was greater than 50, so by default, MC only showed you the keywords that were selected for the files you were working on.  Maybe I'm wrong.  You could open MC21 as a test and see, by clicking on the search bar/box and see how many keywords pop up when you do.

Anyway, glad you have it working and sorry that a feature I asked for caused you trouble.  :)

Brian.
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Mike48

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Re: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2016, 08:48:34 pm »

Thanks, Brian. I appreciate your help.

It would be great if the user could choose the old or new behavior. Usually, I find autocomplete far quicker than scrolling through a list. How should I make this wish known to the developers?
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RD James

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Re: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2016, 08:50:43 pm »

I don't think the solution is to make keywords genre or media-sub-type specific.
Disabling the import of keywords from the TVDB/TMDB and podcasts would work better for me.
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blgentry

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Re: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2016, 08:57:00 pm »

The keyword tag is largely useless to me because JRiver pollutes it almost immediately.

How about using another field for your keyword tagging?  Like [Keywords RDJ].  Then you know it's only the stuff you type in and select.  Then you could pretty much ignore [Keywords] altogether.
 
Quote
I don't want to see tags from music files when I'm tagging movies/tv shows

Do you mean Music Videos?  Because keywords are not shared between [Media Type] Audio and Video.  At least they don't seem to be in my testing.

Brian.
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RD James

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Re: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2016, 09:13:05 pm »

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RD James

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Re: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2016, 09:22:28 am »

Returning to this today made me realize that I don't care enough to fight for it over other more important changes that I'd like to see in JRiver 22.
It's not that difficult to create a new field and hide/ignore the data that JRiver pulls in, even if it's a messy solution.

That doesn't change that I dislike how the program pollutes libraries with junk data automatically.
Director, actors, release date, synopsis, episode names etc: all useful data.
 
Have you had a look at the keywords that TMDB/TVDB pulls in? They're junk. Often inaccurate, never consistent, full of spoilers, and even offensive.
With over 4000 keywords forced into my library, few have more than two or three films assigned and the majority are unique. Many are misspelled and some aren't English. (for English language films no less)
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blgentry

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Re: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2016, 09:33:26 am »

It would be great if the user could choose the old or new behavior. Usually, I find autocomplete far quicker than scrolling through a list. How should I make this wish known to the developers?

Jim H, here in this thread is the president of JRiver.  The developers read the forums too.  One of them has *probably* read this thread, but it's hard to say if they don't comment.

You could go to the feature requests thread and request it there.  Or just start a new thread that clearly articulates why you think a change would be helpful.  If it's applicable to enough other people, maybe they will add or change the option.

Good luck.

Brian.
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Mike48

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Re: Tagging checkbox problems 22.0.15
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2016, 06:59:09 pm »

I added a feature request here:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=106475.0

and I hope that anyone who agrees will chime in there.

Mike
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