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[billfish]

I'm almost there, except that I have speakers connected to the headphone port of my iMac (El Capitan) and they play everything that's going to any Media Center Zone. So they play everything at the same time. I assume that's because they play whatever is going through Core Audio, which is everything. Does anyone have suggestions about how to change this behavior, using MC, Soundflower, Loopback, Audio Midi Setup, a TC Impact Twin (a DAC) I have sitting around, or whatever? Ideal would be to have the headphone jack be its own MC Zone, and do everything in software.

Update: After thinking about this, I'll try having the Impact Twin be its own zone, use the internal speaker for system sounds, and leave the headphone port unused. Any suggestions still welcome.

[blgentry]

MC will see any audio devices that the Mac sees.  So if you plug in external DACs, external sound cards, etc, MC can see them and use them.

I have a fairly simple setup on my Mac:  The internal sound card, and one external DAC.  I have a zone for the internal sound card, which is connected to some external speakers.  I call this zone "desk speakers".  I have the external DAC plugged in to a headphone amplifier, where I listen with headphones.  I made a new zone for this, selected the DAC, and named the zone "headphones".

In the Mac's Audio preferences, I tied system sounds to the headphone zone, but I have them turned all the way down.  System sounds get in my way; I don't find them useful, so "off" is perfectly fine for me.

When I want to play music, I choose a zone, then choose some music, and it goes to that zone for playback.

Good luck with your setup. 

Brian.

[billfish]

blgentry: Thank you for responding! This is exactly my question: How do you make a zone for the internal sound card? Or, to back up, I have an iMac, with no 3rd party sound cards; do you have a Mac Pro or something with add-in cards? On my iMac, with no external DAC connected, the only output MC shows (right-click on the Zone > Playback Options > Audio Device) is Core Audio, so everything has to use that, so Core Audio gets all zones playing through it at the same time, and this mishmash output goes to the headphone jack. I don't understand this very well, so a bit more detail would be very welcome, and I love it that I can get advice from someone who has dealt with the exact issue.

[blgentry]

Or, to back up, I have an iMac, with no 3rd party sound cards; do you have a Mac Pro or something with add-in cards?

I have a Mac laptop.  I'm calling the headphone jack, and mic input "the internal sound card".  It's built in to the Macbook; but I'm calling it a sound card, because it is! 

On my iMac, with no external DAC connected, the only output MC shows (right-click on the Zone > Playback Options > Audio Device) is Core Audio, so everything has to use that, so Core Audio gets all zones playing through it at the same time, and this mishmash output goes to the headphone jack.

Mish mash of what?  Do you mean web browsers, itunes, and other apps?  System sounds?  Or something from MC?

If you want to lock the system out of sound output while MC is running, you can turn on exclusive access mode.  If you want to have different sounds go to different sound cards, then you'll need different sound cards.

Maybe if you describe a scenario or two and what you'd like to happen, maybe I can guide you to a solution. 

You mentioned sending some sounds to the internal speakers, and others to the headphone jack.  I do not think these can be accessed at the same time.  I think the Mac does the switching between internal speakers and headphone jack internally and mutes the speaker when headphones are plugged in.

Brian.

[billfish]

Brian, thanks again for all your help. Spurred on and informed by your observations, I've got things working the way I want them.

My goal was to get JRiver Media Center to work with the Denon Heos multi-room wireless audio system. I've tried a number of servers, and the great control that MC gives, plus the good design of JRemote, drew me to Media Center. (The native Heos controller app is not great.)

Heos is Denon's knockoff of Sonos. I couldn't justify the expense of Sonos, but I got Heos for half price at a national retailer's sale, perhaps because there is litigation between Sonos and Denon. Also, Heos uses my pre-existing network's wifi and Ethernet to reach the whole house; each Heos speaker picks up normal wifi and has an Ethernet port. Each Heos powered speaker is Wifi receiver and a DLNA Renderer. (cf: Eustace Chisholm and the Works by James Purdy.)

I fell back to Media Center 21 because my trial period for 22 ran out, but all the controls for what I'm doing appear to be the same. We're not in the right forum now; oh well.

Here's how I got JRiver Media Center (21.0.91) on Mac OSX 10.11.6 (El Capitan) to work with Denon Heos (rev 3, 1.364.110r89781):

Tools > Options > Media Network > check Use Media Network to share this library and enable DLNA. (Go through rigamarole with Access Code.)

Tools > Options > Media Network > ... Add or configure DLNA servers ... - Generic DLNA (the default) worked for me. Audiophile 24 bit DAC did not.

Tools > Options > Media Network > ... Add or configure DLNA servers ... > Audio > Format: PCM 16 bit worked for me, also MP3 high bandwidth. Either version of PCM 24 bit didn't work (when I clicked on Play, it tried to play, then Stopped).

Tools > Options > Media Network > Advanced: DLNA Server (share your media with other DLNA devices) should be checked.
DLNA Renderer (allow other DLNA devices to control Media Center) should be unchecked. DLNA Controller (control other DLNA devices) should be checked.

The Heos powered speakers show up, after a pause of a number of seconds, under Playing Now as DLNA Renderers, grey arrows when not playing, yellow or green arrows when playing. (They also show up as music libraries, although greyed, under Playing from Main Library, even though they have no storage or library.)

You can now drag a file, album, or playlist to the speaker and it'll play. While the speaker is selected, you can use the play controls, volume control, shuffle control, etc. in the header of the MC window.

You can group speakers together by dragging one on top of another or right-click > Link Zone > Link to... and they'll play the same thing. If the speakers within a link are both audible and they're out of sync, you can select a speaker & right click > adjust link timing, although I can't figure out when (if?) that takes effect.

The Player that shows up under Playing Now plays through my Mac's regular internal speaker/headphone jack.

Now to return to our previous conversation: At that time, I was creating MC Zones, then linking a Heos speaker with an MC Zone, then linking those units together. This unnecessarily complicated attempt, which seemed logical at the time, created the problems I was asking about, which had all zones playing simultaneously through the Mac's standard output.

You mentioned sending some sounds to the internal speakers, and others to the headphone jack.  I do not think these can be accessed at the same time.  I think the Mac does the switching between internal speakers and headphone jack internally and mutes the speaker when headphones are plugged in.

Pardon me for being unclear. You are of course correct. The internal speakers and the headphone jack are the same thing; presumably plugging something into the headphone jack opens some contacts and turns off the internal speakers.

Mish mash of what?  Do you mean web browsers, itunes, and other apps?  System sounds?  Or something from MC?

Was: All of the output of all of the MC zones goes to the internal speakers/headphone jack. System sounds go there too.

Is: Problem solved.

If you want to lock the system out of sound output while MC is running, you can turn on exclusive access mode.

I've tried turning on exclusive access mode for one MC zone, but then the other MC zones can't get access (to Core Audio, I guess) and give some error message and don't play. If you understand exclusive access mode better than I do, an explanation would be welcome. As in, exclusive access to what, exactly?

I have a zone for the internal sound card, which is connected to some external speakers.  I call this zone "desk speakers".

OK, you set up the zone called "desk speakers", and its audio device is Core Audio, right? And then for the zone "headphones," the device is your DAC. Yes?

Maybe if you describe a scenario or two and what you'd like to happen, maybe I can guide you to a solution.

While trying to explain this, the light dawned and I did what worked, above. Thanks!

If you want to have different sounds go to different sound cards, then you'll need different sound cards.

I now agree - the way I was doing it, I made MC Zones, and they all had the Mac's Core Audio selected under Tools > Options > Audio > Audio Device, and they all played at once through the Core Audio standard output, the internal speaker/headphone jack. To avoid this I would need one device for each zone, devices such as sound cards or DACs that showed up separately under Tools > Options > Audio > Audio Device.

The way I'm doing it now, apparently the JRiver programmers can keep the different zones' digitized, packetized audio streams separate up until when they get rendered/converted to analog. My guess is that by creating zones, I was forcing this to happen on the Mac, because MC doesn't know what kind of hardware is in a zone. Doing it the way that works right, the DAC happens on the Heos speakers, because MC knows them to be DLNA renderers. I think the relevant line from Apple's "What Is Core Audio" is this: "Audio units are software plug-ins that process audio data. In OS X, a single audio unit can be used simultaneously by an unlimited number of channels and applications."

Anyway, thanks for your help, suggestions, and discussion. It made this happen much quicker and more pleasantly. I went into detail (which may or may not be correct) so that others searching the web, like I was, can have the benefit (or detriment).

[blgentry]

Brian, thanks again for all your help. Spurred on and informed by your observations, I've got things working the way I want them.

That's great!  Thanks for letting us know. 

The Heos powered speakers show up, after a pause of a number of seconds, under Playing Now as DLNA Renderers, grey arrows when not playing, yellow or green arrows when playing.

There you go.  That's what's supposed to happen with DLNA devices.  Sounds like you've got it worked out just right.

If the speakers within a link are both audible and they're out of sync, you can select a speaker & right click > adjust link timing, although I can't figure out when (if?) that takes effect.

It should take effect quickly.  Pretty much right after you release the slider, one speaker should stop playing for a moment, then they should both (all) play again.  However, it's fairly well known the DLNA devices don't obey sync very well.  You can usually get them to play in sync... for a little while.  Then they drift out of sync again.

A different way of doing this, with some systems (like Sonos), is to direct MC's output to ONE of your speakers.  Then use the system's proprietary app to link speakers together.  With Sonos at least, this guarantees sync, while still having MC be the music source.  This may or may not be applicable to the Denon system.

If you understand exclusive access mode better than I do, an explanation would be welcome. As in, exclusive access to what, exactly?

Exclusive access means essentially this:  When this option is enabled, one MC zone will "lock" this audio device so that ONLY this MC zone can talk to it.  "Exclusive access" for this MC zone.  Other OSX apps, and other MC zones will not be able to talk to it.  This is useful mainly for sound devices that might be talked to by other apps (or the system) when you do not want them to.  Like noisy web pages that would intrude on your music.  Or loud beeps and bops from the system that would hurt your ears or irritate you while listening.

OK, you set up the zone called "desk speakers", and its audio device is Core Audio, right? And then for the zone "headphones," the device is your DAC. Yes?

Yes and Yes. 

Good job.  Glad you got it all working.

Brian.