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[t42]

I'm currently trialing MC22 and really liking the improvements since the last time I tried MC a couple of years ago.
I'm trying to convince the household to switch from WMC to MC. There are a couple of hurdles that I'm sure are possible to overcome, I'm hoping I just haven't found the right setting yet...
All questions relate to Theatre view, controlled via a Logitech Harmony One (no buttons remapped yet from WMC use).

1. Skip forward and back (!<< and >>! keys) - when playing back recorded TV in WMC these would skip backwards and forwards in 30 second chunks. I know the arrow keys provide this functionality, but is there any way of duplicating this on the skip keys for TV recordings only (i.e. leave DVD chapter control as is)?
At the moment the least worst option I can think of is to duplicate the arrow keys to the skip keys on the Harmony One remote, but I will then of course lose chapter skip. What other functions would I lose by doing this?

2. Guide colours - the different colours for different program types is cool but distracting (maybe just more time needed). Can the colour coding be turned off or customised?

3. Theatre View Recorded TV Shortcut - I have a shortcut set up on the Harmony One to jump to Recorded TV in WMC. Is there an equivalent shortcut I can assign to perform the same function in MC? (it currently jumps to a video genre page)

4. Delete recording options - the 'Remove from library' and 'Recycle' options are not required. Can these be hidden to leave just Cancel and Delete?

5. EPG to current time (now) - When entering the guide it sometimes (always?) takes you to the last selected time period. It would be good if this jumped to the current time. Alternatively, is there a shortcut to jump to the current time?

6. Options for recorded TV shows - 'Select' and 'Tag' options are less important than 'Delete' to us. Can the order or visibility of these options be changed? Alternatively, can Delete be mapped to a shortcut?

7. EPG look ahead - WMC provided 2 weeks of EPG data. It looks like MC only has 1 week. Is it possible to get more? (In the UK using standard mc2xml settings)

8. Recorded TV Thumbnails - the thumbnail appears to be of the first frame of the recording. As I have a 2 minute preroll to all recordings, the thumbnail is usually a screenshot from the show before. Any way to change this? (WMC uses a frame part way through the recording)

9. Live TV pauses when in EPG - Any way of keeping the current channel playing when going into the guide?

That's it for now... Thanks in advance for any help.

[tzr916]

1. I have harmony ultimate and the "reversal" of these buttons was compared to WMC was painful to get used to but the alternative to remap or try something in MC is more trouble than just eating it (for me).

2. I believe MC has not made it possible to turn off the guide colors or change them (it has been requested).

3. Harmony ultimate has a "DVR" button, that takes you directly to recorded tv in MC. Maybe Harmony one has "DVR" button.

4. Been requested, no way to change these options.

5. Haven't noticed this but, pressing GUIDE again should reset it to top/current.

6. ALL been requested, no way to change these options.

7. Not sure, are you talking about Theater View or Standard View?

8. Yes, you can change the "time" when MC grabs the thumbnail. Tools > Options > type "thumbnails" into search box at the bottom.

9. Yes, I believe just uncheck this: Tools > Options > Theater View > Behavior > Pause Video Playback when entering Theater View.

[BartMan01]

Do you only have one TV? If not, what you are using as WMC extenders around the house and what your plan is for distributing TV around the house with MC? Content distribution is the main thing keeping me on WMC at the moment since I have switched to basic cable and the only encrypted channels I have left are once that have apps where I can get the content 'on demand'.

Item 1 is still a pain for me when switching between MC and WMC, but the behavior is consistent in MC. If you switch to MC it may just take a little time to retrain the habits.

[RoderickGI]

1. JRiver MC is different to WMV, and so key controls are going to be different. JRiver MC Theatre View is designed to be completely controlled via five keys: The four arrows and the OK button. Basically, this is a learning issue. In the real world using the left and right arrows to skip (which has configurable skips times) is easy to use and logical.

2. The colouring of the Guide is relatively recent. I think at some stage down the track it will become configurable, but there hasn't been any commitment to do so. May not happen. Probably will.

3. Every MCE remote has a "Recorded TV" button. If no changes have been made to the Theatre View menu layout, pressing that button will take you to the appropriate section of MC. I have changed mine and can't even remember which menu item it took you to. The Shows item I think. If you are running the Harmony with an MCE profile (i.e. controlling an MCE device with either the basic or extended MCE definitions Harmony provides), then the "Recorded TV" button should just work.

4. Those options are not required for you, now, while you are in the early testing phase. But other people do use them, and you may as well, once you have converted to MC. They aren't configurable.

5. Answered.

6. Answered.

7. The Theatre View Guide definition can be changed to show as much EPG as you want. If you have three months of EPG data, you could show it. It is just a matter of changing the expression used for display, and setting more days to be displayed. A search of the forum will find discussion on this, and the expression format.

8. See Tools>Options>Tree & View>Thumbnails>Capture television recording thumbnails at xxx seconds. Set it to whatever you want. There is a separate setting for non-TV video.

9. Answered.

You will have your work cut out for you convincing others to convert to MC, as they will be used to WMC and want everything to work exactly the same way. But MC is a different program, so it is going to work differently. It is going to take time for people to accept the change.

PS: Don't try to run MC and WMC together at the same time. That way be dragons, and WMC will interfere with tuner availability. The is a setting to stop it stealing IR commands, which you should have turned on in MC. Tools>Options>Theatre View>Behaviour>Disable Windows Media Center.

[tzr916]

...

4. Those options are not required for you, now, while you are in the early testing phase. But other people do use them, and you may as well, once you have converted to MC. They aren't configurable.

....

What I eventually realized is that those options only appear for shows that were not recorded by MC (ie WMC, other videos). If you have MC do all the recording, those other options won't be there anymore. All you will see when you choose DELETE is "Are you sure you want to continue? yes / no".

[t42]

Many thanks for all the replies.

1. JRiver MC is different to WMV, and so key controls are going to be different. JRiver MC Theatre View is designed to be completely controlled via five keys: The four arrows and the OK button. Basically, this is a learning issue. In the real world using the left and right arrows to skip (which has configurable skips times) is easy to use and logical.

I agree that the current MC button mappings are logical and I'm not suggesting the core 5 keys change at all, but I would argue that mapping |<< and >>| to skip forwards and backwards when watching recorded TV is also logical. It sounds like this is a common request so why not provide it as an option? Although a simple thing, this is probably the biggest barrier to adoption in our house.

2. The colouring of the Guide is relatively recent. I think at some stage down the track it will become configurable, but there hasn't been any commitment to do so. May not happen. Probably will.
...
4. Those options are not required for you, now, while you are in the early testing phase. But other people do use them, and you may as well, once you have converted to MC. They aren't configurable.

6. ALL been requested, no way to change these options.

Fair enough. I was just hoping these might be tweakable in the skin or something.

3. Harmony ultimate has a "DVR" button, that takes you directly to recorded tv in MC. Maybe Harmony one has "DVR" button.

3. Every MCE remote has a "Recorded TV" button. If no changes have been made to the Theatre View menu layout, pressing that button will take you to the appropriate section of MC. I have changed mine and can't even remember which menu item it took you to. The Shows item I think. If you are running the Harmony with an MCE profile (i.e. controlling an MCE device with either the basic or extended MCE definitions Harmony provides), then the "Recorded TV" button should just work.

Hmm... well it seems to be working now. I think the confusion arose because it opened the Genre tab rather than the Series tab.

5. Haven't noticed this but, pressing GUIDE again should reset it to top/current.

Upon further discussion with SWMBO it sounds like the guide opens in the past at the last time the guide was used. Thanks for the Guide button trick though.

7. The Theatre View Guide definition can be changed to show as much EPG as you want. If you have three months of EPG data, you could show it. It is just a matter of changing the expression used for display, and setting more days to be displayed. A search of the forum will find discussion on this, and the expression format.

Fab, thanks. Found another one of your posts describing this.

8. See Tools>Options>Tree & View>Thumbnails>Capture television recording thumbnails at xxx seconds. Set it to whatever you want. There is a separate setting for non-TV video.

8. Yes, you can change the "time" when MC grabs the thumbnail. Tools > Options > type "thumbnails" into search box at the bottom.

Thanks both!

9. Yes, I believe just uncheck this: Tools > Options > Theater View > Behavior > Pause Video Playback when entering Theater View.

Perfect, thanks.

You will have your work cut out for you convincing others to convert to MC, as they will be used to WMC and want everything to work exactly the same way. But MC is a different program, so it is going to work differently. It is going to take time for people to accept the change.

Of course, nobody expects MC to be a carbon copy of WMC, but I think the improvements to Theatre View and TV have made it a much better contender since I last tried it (around V19 I think).

PS: Don't try to run MC and WMC together at the same time. That way be dragons, and WMC will interfere with tuner availability. The is a setting to stop it stealing IR commands, which you should have turned on in MC. Tools>Options>Theatre View>Behaviour>Disable Windows Media Center.

Already figured that one out, thanks!

Do you only have one TV? If not, what you are using as WMC extenders around the house and what your plan is for distributing TV around the house with MC? Content distribution is the main thing keeping me on WMC at the moment since I have switched to basic cable and the only encrypted channels I have left are once that have apps where I can get the content 'on demand'.

We only have one TV connected directly to the HTPC, so distributed TV is not an issue in our house. Not sure if Gizmo can be run on an Android device connected to a TV? I'm afraid I'm new to MC so can't offer any expert advice.

[RoderickGI]

I would argue that mapping |<< and >>| to skip forwards and backwards when watching recorded TV is also logical. It sounds like this is a common request so why not provide it as an option? Although a simple thing, this is probably the biggest barrier to adoption in our house.

Post the request in the Too Easy III thread. It may get done for you. Make sure you read the first post instructions.

But it couldn't be global, since those buttons need to work correctly when playing a DVD. I understand those change management barriers people put up, but for me having my thumb on the OK button, and easily able to hit the left and right arrows next to it, is the easiest way to Pause and Skip Back and Forward. No hunting in the dark for the |<< and >>| buttons. I wouldn't be surprised if SWMBO starts using the arrow buttons after you convert to MC.

BTW, while I am on the Beta Team, I am just a user like you, so I can't get changes implemented. I can only ask for them, just like you. Every post on these forums is read by Jim (waving) the boss and owner of JRiver, so your requests are being seen.

Fair enough. I was just hoping these might be tweakable in the skin or something.

Skinning functionality is still a contentious issue. I would be surprised if the Guide settings become part of a skin, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had settings added.

Not sure if Gizmo can be run on an Android device connected to a TV? I'm afraid I'm new to MC so can't offer any expert advice.

Gizmo and WebGizmo won't play live TV. But they will play TV recording video files.

[t42]

3. Every MCE remote has a "Recorded TV" button. If no changes have been made to the Theatre View menu layout, pressing that button will take you to the appropriate section of MC. I have changed mine and can't even remember which menu item it took you to. The Shows item I think. If you are running the Harmony with an MCE profile (i.e. controlling an MCE device with either the basic or extended MCE definitions Harmony provides), then the "Recorded TV" button should just work.

Hmm... well it seems to be working now. I think the confusion arose because it opened the Genre tab rather than the Series tab.

I was wrong, it's not working. The Recorded TV button is taking me to ripped DVD TV series rather than OTA recorded TV. Is there something I need to change in the Theatre View menu tree to make this work?

[jachin99]

Something to consider while setting this up, the remote buttons for WMC on XP were a little bit different than remote operations on WMC  windows 7. Vista I'm not too sure about.  XP used keystroke emulation I believe while seven uses unique remote codes.  This could make a difference in some setups.   

[RoderickGI]

I was wrong, it's not working. The Recorded TV button is taking me to ripped DVD TV series rather than OTA recorded TV. Is there something I need to change in the Theatre View menu tree to make this work?

The "Recorded TV" button on an MCE remote or a remote emulating an MCE remote, such as a Logitech, will take you to the "Shows" menu item in MC Theatre View. If you have changed the Theatre View menu names, and/or moved them around, you will get some other, usually undesirable, result. This is a well know shortcoming of the Theatre View design. It may get changed at some time in the future.

To the best of my knowledge there is no "DVD TV Series" group in Theatre View, so I assume you have created that group/menu item, and that is where the button just happens to take you.

I just tested on my HTPC with modified menus, but which also still includes the "Shows" menu, using both a standard MCE remote and my Logitech running MCE emulation. They both work the same. They find and display the contents of the "Shows" item, and when I press the "Back" button, or left, left until I hit back, MC returns to the "Movies" menu item. That is probably because the "Movies" item is now in the position that the "Shows" item used to be, or something random like that, because it doesn't look like it is. Anyway, that happens consistently.

There is no current fix to this, other than putting back the original menu structure. It is possible to work around this issue using programmable remotes to go to the Home menu of Theatre View, then navigate any modified menu structure using a sequence of left, right, up, down, and enter commands, simulating using the same commands manually. It could probably be done with one of the infrared automation tools as well. A search of Interact will find discussions on this.


I believe that Infrared commands have been the same since Vista, so Windows 7, 8, and 10 should all be the same.

[Yaobing]

2. Guide colours - the different colours for different program types is cool but distracting (maybe just more time needed). Can the colour coding be turned off or customised?

2. The colouring of the Guide is relatively recent. I think at some stage down the track it will become configurable, but there hasn't been any commitment to do so. May not happen. Probably will.

Yes it will happen.  Option to disable it will come soon.  Option to customize colors will come later.

[RoderickGI]

Excellent. 

[t42]

The "Recorded TV" button on an MCE remote or a remote emulating an MCE remote, such as a Logitech, will take you to the "Shows" menu item in MC Theatre View. If you have changed the Theatre View menu names, and/or moved them around, you will get some other, usually undesirable, result. This is a well know shortcoming of the Theatre View design. It may get changed at some time in the future.

To the best of my knowledge there is no "DVD TV Series" group in Theatre View, so I assume you have created that group/menu item, and that is where the button just happens to take you.

I just tested on my HTPC with modified menus, but which also still includes the "Shows" menu, using both a standard MCE remote and my Logitech running MCE emulation. They both work the same. They find and display the contents of the "Shows" item, and when I press the "Back" button, or left, left until I hit back, MC returns to the "Movies" menu item. That is probably because the "Movies" item is now in the position that the "Shows" item used to be, or something random like that, because it doesn't look like it is. Anyway, that happens consistently.

There is no current fix to this, other than putting back the original menu structure. It is possible to work around this issue using programmable remotes to go to the Home menu of Theatre View, then navigate any modified menu structure using a sequence of left, right, up, down, and enter commands, simulating using the same commands manually. It could probably be done with one of the infrared automation tools as well. A search of Interact will find discussions on this.


I believe that Infrared commands have been the same since Vista, so Windows 7, 8, and 10 should all be the same.

I honestly can't remember what/if I changed in Theatre View! But your explanation correlates with my experience as the DVD series is labelled Shows. I'll try programming a key sequence into my Harmony to access Recorded TV, as you suggest. I've already tweaked the Theatre View menu layout to make it easier to get to.

I've also remapped my Harmony remote |<< and >>| hardware buttons to duplicate the left & right arrow buttons and put |<< & >>| functions on the touchscreen. This seems to have been well received by the rest of the house...

Yes it will happen.  Option to disable it will come soon.  Option to customize colors will come later.

Excellent, thanks for listening!
FWIW I've now purchased MC as it's the best alternative to WMC that I've tried and the forum support has been excellent.