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[moyses]

JRiver 22, Windows 10 and dsd128.

My streamer, Marantz na11s1, plays dsd64 perfectly but when I play dsd from MC it still says 2,844...(DSD64)on the Marantz led panel. Why?

[kmmcd]

I am not familiar with your equipment, but it sounds like the player is accurately identifying the format of what you are playing. DSD64 = DSD64.

On my end, when I found that my player (Yamaha A-S801) stream format indicators did not agree with what I thought that I was sending it from various audio applications currently under evaluation, it was ultimately because I did not have audio output of the playing application properly configured, and/or the Yamaha ASIO driver was not selected.

[moyses]

Oops, sorry I meant the Marantz panel  states dsd 2,84....when the file is supposedly a 128dsd one. So it should state dsd 5,6.....right?

I downloaded both dsd64 and dsd128 from Channel Classics, and at least the size of the 128dsd files are much bigger. Any idea what is wrong?

[dtc]

What does Audio Path show MC is sending? Click on the little icon with 3 vertical lines on the top right next to the shuffle button.

[moyses]

Well, it says Input: DSD 5.6 MHZ 1 bit 2ch from source format DSF, and Output: DSD 5,6 MHZ 2ch using ASIO (bitstreaming).

[moyses]

And Audio Path : direct. Changes: No changes are being made.

[dtc]

Sounds like MC is doing its job correctly. Maybe an issue with the Marantz itself. It might just be the display. Or possibly the Marantz is doing a conversion for some reason.  You might try asking them.

[moyses]

Thanks guys.
Just sent an email to Marantz. Will post their answer. Might be useful to others.

[dtc]

First, does the 2x DSD play? If so maybe just the display is wrong.

I did find a review that said 2x DSD played and the reveiwer said he could hear a difference between 1x and 2x DSD. The reviewer did not specify whether he used DoP or native and what the display said.

Now, some confusion.

The manual says that only 1x DSD is supported and that is supported over DoP (DSD over PCM) which would use 176 KHz PCM. To do 2x DSD over DoP would require 352 KHz, which does not seem to be supported. There is no mention of native DSD support.  Maybe the documentation is incorrect. But it is confusing.

Native is sending the 2.8 Mhz or 5.6 MHz signal, whereas DoP wraps the DSD bits into a PCM wrapper and sends that. The streamer then decodes the DoP into native DSD.


The Audio Path data that you listed seems lie it is for native DSD transmission, not DoP. Again, the manual does not discussion native DSD transmission.


Sorry - no definitive answer, but at least some additional info to check into.

[moyses]

Thanks a lot dtc.
Yes, 2xdsd plays as well as 1xdsd, although the disply says dsd>2,8.....MHZ.
Of the three reviews Iīve read, two of them mention that the unit supports both 1xdsd and 2xdsd, and indeed they say they played both. John Atkinson (Stereophile) only mentions having played 1xdsd.
The user manual, on page 41, under NOTE, says frequencies suppported are 44/48/........192 (PCM) and 2,8222MHZ DSD.
Unfortunately, none of the two reviewers who say they have played 2xdsd mention what was on the display in each case.
I am waiting for Marantz to answer my email. will let you know.

[moyses]

Here is Marantzīs answer

"Hello Moyses,

Thank you for contacting D+M, we value you as a D+M customer and appreciate the opportunity to be of assistance!

I'm referencing page 39 of the digital version (PDF) of your unit's owner's manual: The supported sampling frequencies are 32 / 44.1 / 48 / 64 /
88.2 / 96 / 176.4 / 192 kHz (PCM) and 2.8224 MHz (DSD).
 
In brief, no. The unit will not display that it's recognizing DSD 5.6 MHz.

If you have any further questions please feel free to contact us again."

I certainly do, and indeed I did.
I have reread the User Manual. The sentence they quote is the same I did in my last post, and seems to indicate that
the unit only plays dsd64. It seems though that it refers to the display not to the possibility of the unit playing that frequency. Very unclear!!
To add to the confusion the next sentence under NOTE on that same page states that the number appearing on the display may differ from the one the playing software is sending to the unit, i.e., it may just be that the display cannot recognize the higher frequency so it states the lower one.
Anyway, I have asked them to clarify this.
Lets wait for the new chapter. Perhaps this time the mistery will be solved.
 

[moyses]

So here at last is Marantzīs official answer:

"Let me clarify. Officially, the NA-11S1 does not support DSD above 2.8224MHz (DSD64). This doesn't mean that it will only play DSD64 exclusively, but only that we can only guarantee it will play DSD64.
 
In theory it should still playback DSD128, but in such instances it will still only display DSD 2.8MHz, because that is all that is officially supported by the unit."

In theory? Would be interesting to know how those two reviewers who said they played dsd128 are so sure of that?
Maybe I should emai them or perhaps ask Mr. Ihiwata himself...
 
 

[blgentry]

That's bizarre.  It's like saying "our DAC only supports 44.1 kHz audio, but if you send it 88kHz, it might play it and still show 44.1 on the display."

I wonder what in the heck is going on with that device?

Brian.

[dtc]

Looks like a "hidden" feature. They probably did not have enough time to adequate test it but left it in if anyone stumbled on it. That used to be somewhat common but you do not see it so much anymore. I doubt Marantz is likely to put out a firmware update just to fix the display. I would just thank them for getting more that they promised and use MC to assure you that you are playing a 2x DSD.

[moyses]

I guess it was probably the result of Ishiwata's insistence in tweaking the USB input. At least two of the reviews I read mentioned the fact that Ishiwata is a fan of dsd, and delayed the launch of the player because he wanted to improve the USB input.
Perhaps they just did not want to bother with making changes to the manual and the firmware as you point out.
I would still like to know if when I play a dsd128 file, which I did with JRiver 22, and the unit plays the file, it is indeed playing at the higher frequency. I guess it does, right?

[dtc]

It is probably playing 2x, unless somehow the ASIO driver or the device itself is changing it back to 1x. I would be surprised if that is happening. If I remember correctly one of the reviews said they heard a difference between 1x and 2x. If you believe the reviewer, that would be evidence that 2x is playing.

Marantz's response seems to indicate that it is playing 2x, they just do not want to admit that directly.

I think you have 2x playing. Certainly MC is putting out 2x.