Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Matt]

MC 9.1.211 introduces a new view scheme system and a new default scheme layout.

If you've got any ideas for how to improve the default layout, please take a shot.  Try to keep both new users and experienced users in mind.

Submit any improved browser.jmd files back to us. (matt @ jriver.com -- no spaces)

Thanks for any help!

[Doof]

Might I suggest that MC somehow import already existing view schemes when a new version is installed?

I'm pretty much at the point where I don't even want to play with the view schemes because just when I get them the way I like them, they all go away.

This is not to detract from my appreciation of the changes being made, mind you. I love them. I just wish I didn't have to recreate everything every time it changes.

[Matt]

It's unlikely that view schemes will have to be discarded again.  Sorry for the hassles.

[Jaguu]

Yes Matt,
I fully support Doof, I suggested it myself some days ago. It is really a big nuisance to recreate the view schemes every time. It takes more time than you think of.

But the improvement looks good.

The last nuisance to tackle now is:
An image view should only display image related columns by default as an audio view should only display audio related columns by default. It is another nuisance to adjust the column display every time view schemes change. Thanks for bringing view schemes group back.

The very last nuisance to tackle with is:
The same as above for the properties window. When we decide about a view scheme group or view scheme, let us decide which fields we want to see in the properties window and how they should be grouped.

Probably the two could go hand in hand in form of a table such as:

View scheme: music
Display field in properties window / content pane column
Artist   / yes / yes
Album  / yes / yes
...
Ratings / no /  no

[Jaguu]

Matt, Yaobing,

why do you not rework TV channels and web radio to appear as tracks as well. Then they could be easily integrated in the new view scheme system (just add new types tv and radio) and you would get one uniform interface for all media types.

We could define a TV view scheme grouped by country (for those living in Europe tha watch TV programs from other countries!!!) and web radio view schemes sorted by genre.

It seems so obvious to add those types as added types in view schemes!

[nila]

Defaults:

• All groups should be set to 'Bottom' for their position.
  
  These are the views I have set up for browsing with:
  audio
  - Compilations
  Year | Album - (Year - Complete)|# - Name
  Search Criteria: [Media Type]=[Audio] M:\mp3s\Compilations
  
  - Soundtracks
  Album - (Year - Complete)| # - Name
  Search Criteria: [Media Type]=[Audio] M:\mp3s\Soundtracks
  
  - By Artist (This is a GREAT one for browsing my whole library)
  Year | Track Type | Artist (Grouped 2)| Artist | Album (Grouped 2)| Year - Album - Complete
  
  - By Genre
  Year | Genre | Artist | Album
  
  
  Images
  Photos (By People)
  People | Year | Country | Location | Events
  
  Photos
  Location | Year | Country | Location | Events | People
  
  Videos
  Dance Videos
  Troupe | Events
  
  Music Videos
  Artist | Name
  
  TV Series
  Artist | Series | # - Name
  
  suggestions
  U might want to create a group called:
  Tasks
  and put ones like:
  has image/artist
  Incomplete album/artist
  
  etc - to suggest view schemes people can use for sorting and managing their library.
  
  Changes:
  
  
• For view schemes (adding) - the word image should be replaced with 'icon' - it makes more sense. 'Files' should also be changed to 'View Filter' or something which again makes more sense.
  
  
• 'Empty' should be replaced with 'custom' as the word empty suggests just this - an empty view scheme (will make beginners think HUH?) - custom makes it sound like one you customise yourself which is exactly what it is.
  
  
• When creating an 'empty' view scheme - it creates the empty node then just thats it, for beginners they'll be like: 'huh, now what? Whats the point of that?'.
  With empty view schemes it also means we'll be adding a lot of columns etc as well and this is currently quite a slow task to add each column then move it along one by one.  
  The new box for 'View Scheme Properties' is VERY wide due to giving space for the 'Files' (thanks) - the right hand side of this at the top could be adapted to let us control the panes (which ones, their order etc) in the same screen. - It would make creating view schemes more self contained and therefore easier.
  I know I, and some other members according to posts at the time, found the old way of creating the scheme (artist/album/year, etc) alot faster and easier.
  
  This would really help beginners to create custom view schemes with customised panes - right now if they click empty it leaves them lost - I know I got lost with it until I came to the forum and someone explained it - and I'm not a beginner. Its also a LOT faster a way of creating new views with a lot of panes.
  
  The new way for me is VERY sluggish for each step (adding new column and re-drawing, moving columns etc). (I have 18,000 files both image/audio/video).
  
  I also think the old:  'Add New View.....' Was a very good feature to make beginners realise they could do this, unfortunately it's now been removed.

[nila]

And nice work on the tree,
I REALLY like where it is now.

I'd say u've got it right as far as laying that out goes

[NoCodeUK]

Comments regarding the new view scheme system -

1) The beauty of when view groups were removed was that because each separate view scheme operated at the root level, it could be set to have its own columns and sorting.  Now the groups have been introduced each schemes columns and sort is dictated on a whole group level.  For me this is a step backwards.  Example: Videos.  I have a scheme which shows a catalogue of all videos I have on the system sorted by video type and a vs for series.  In the series one I want columns specific to series eg series name, # and Episode #.  For the video Catalogue I want Video type, Location and Name.  At the moment I can only have one or the other.  If I change the columns for Series VS all Video schemes change to these columns.  PLEASE allow each view scheme to have its own columns/sorting independent of anything else as it was before.

2) I agree with Nila and Doof in terms of the usability issues.  Maybe a compromise between the old and new ways for creating view schemes.  Click add a new custom VS from the menu, bring up VS props screen allowing you to add columns and resort like the old way but keep the same menus from the new way to easily add new columns later or change existing columns.  This part of the new system is perfect, it is just the initial setup which is a bit hairy at the moment.

3) Please make panes either resizable or auto size like the columns in the tree view and allow the order to be changed using drag and drop rather than the menu items to move left/right.  This would make them even more dynamic as you could quickly swap the focus of your scheme.  Album/Year could quickly be chnaged to Year/Album and Vice Versa.

This is all I can think of at the moment not having MC in front of me.  1) is the most important defnitely.  Sorting and Columns cannot be dictated on a group level now that they have been made so flexible.

Cheers.  I love all the new stuff and 9.1 keeps on getting better and better.

Adam

[nila]

Yeah - I meant what Adam said in 2.
I didn't mean get rid of the new way - I love it - I just meant to allow us to initially create it.
Drag and drop for the ordering would be sooo nice instead of (well as more likely) 'move left, move right'

We DEFINITELY need the panes to be resizeable - my Artist (group 2) panes are forcing my album panes to not fit.

And I haven't tested it yet - but view settings should definitely be per view rather than group if they're not already.

[RMB]

I have to agree with Jaguu...

It seems like ancient history when I first heard it suggested that TV and Radio would be integrated with music so that the have a common interface.

We have a new interface, but TV and Radio have not changed - has it been forgotten/dropped - or is it still planned sometime? (When?)

Remember that the TV interface is so primitive that it is not possible to have the channels sorted except by frequency or by fiddling its name. Radio? That is even less easy!

While (almost) on that subject, why can MC play visualisations for some radio stations (WMA), but not others (WMV) - should this not be fixed?

[Doof]

NoCodeUK> You don't have to use the View Scheme Groups if you don't want to. Just create your schemes in the Media Library root and delete the rest.

[Doof]

WMV is a video file. How can you play a video and show a visualization at the same time?

[NoCodeUK]

Doof->I want to have the groups but I also want to be able to have different sorting/column settings for each scheme...  I liked the sorting/column function when they were at the root level but I had too many schemes for this to really be feaible so I need groups to organise them.

Adam

[Doof]

Oh, so we can't have columns and sorting unique to just a scheme anymore? The group always overrides?

Any chance that could be changed?

[NoCodeUK]

 You get me now??  At the moment any changes to any scheme within a group ends up making that change for ervy schme in the group.  I want to have a different sort/column scheme for each individual scheme...

Adam

[Jaguu]

As I am in the process of restoring my original view schemes and view schemes groups, I feel quite frustrated.

Although there are some improvements, the original implementation of view schemes group was definitely better!

The Search Wizard does not work any longer and as it was suggested above, individual configuration of view schemes under a group is not possible.

I also felt the distinction between "Add new View Scheme" and "Add New Scheme Groups" in the right-click menu more concise.

And as Nila suggested, it was easier to define the fields to display in the view right away at definition time, although the new system is very dynamic allowing on the fly modifications. But it would be nice to be able to define everything right away.

[Matt]

Oh, so we can't have columns and sorting unique to just a scheme anymore? The group always overrides?

Any chance that could be changed?

Just an oversight.  It'll be changed next build.

[Matt]

The Search Wizard does not work any longer

Can you give more details?  It's working for me.

I also felt the distinction between "Add new View Scheme" and "Add New Scheme Groups" in the right-click menu more concise.

It's different though because "Groups" have panes / columns now.

[nila]

Even though they do have panes, I'm not sure how much these panes are used.

We (I at least) usually use the groups for grouping and am not that bothered about the group pane - it's a pretty extra as it means u can get a view scheme in there for free taking up no extra space.
Or like set a default view scheme for audio and if u want others u expand the group.

It is clever but I definitely took a while to work out view scheme groups with this as oposed to before when we just had a 'create group' button


Maybe just an option to create a group that does exactly what it does now, just in an automated process to make it seem less confusing??


I'm just trying to think of beginners as we all know they get over whelmed with MC.

I can handle whatever u throw at me - BRING IT ON!!!

[LonWar]

How do you change the default view scheme for audio?

[NoCodeUK]

Just an oversight.  It'll be changed next build.

Cheers Matt.  I guessed it probably was

Adam

[nila]

Just rearrange the columns, hide then, whatever - then right click and choose - save changes.


Or to change which panes show right click on the pane header - change the type - add field etc.

[Doof]

I like how the groups are also views in and of themselves. I set them to be pretty generic for all of my audio files or whatever, then the view schemes within the groups are more specialized in what they show, based on what set of files they're designed for.

For instance, my Audio group shows a simple Artist (grouped) - Artist - Album.

But then inside I have view schemes specifically for Singles, which just shows Artist (grouped) - Artist. or Complete Albums which is identical to the Audio Group, except for it only shows a certain set of files. I really like how this all works.

[Jaguu]

Doof,

I came to the same conclusion. The pane of the view scheme group is very useful as it allows to move the most used view to the top, kind of default view, or even playlist/smartlists specific to that group or smartlists such as Top Hits, Recently Played etc.

[nameless]

The default view schemes should not be a goofball rendition of what one person thinks make sense.  They should be a smattering of everything, to help people learn how to customize them the way they want them.  The default view schemes, that is, should serve to show how view schemes in general are used.

[Matt]

The default view schemes should not be a goofball rendition of what one person thinks make sense.  They should be a smattering of everything, to help people learn how to customize them the way they want them.  The default view schemes, that is, should serve to show how view schemes in general are used

Again, we'd appreciate any browser.jmd submissions for consideration as the MC defaults.

Thanks everyone.

[Wobbley]

Doof,

Would you mind posting a schematic of your view schemes?  I liked your thoughts (singles, complete albums, etc.) in your last post and want to get some ideas for my own view schemes.

Just if you have time...

Thanks,

Wobbley

[Sam]

I'm not sure how to make a "browser.jmd" so I'll just throw a list of suggestions over the transom.


You mentioned new users...

1. Open the Media Library tree one level by default, and leave it open permanently so that the screen always shows "Audio," "Images," and "Video."  Eliminate the +/- next to Media Library.

2. Open Playlist tree one level by default (after cleaning it up a bit, hiding the advanced stuff).

3. Allow users to use MC without ever having to open the library trees.  The default view when you click on audio (without opening the tree) should be Artist/Album.  When users rip their own CDs, these are likely to be the most reliable and usable fields.

4.  Replace the text in the top level category labels (e.g. "Audio") with graphics.  Bigger, and more visually distinct from their trees below.

5. Allow users to hide groups and view schemes that they don't want to see.  They might not want to see all those complex view schemes, but they might not want to permanently delete them either.

6. Include every single useful view scheme that people come up with.  Show just a handful in the trees, and hide the rest.

7. Include sample files that will "demonstrate" every default view scheme.  It will be confusing for users when many panes just say <all> and <unassigned>.  You want them to immediately realize that this is a great tool for organizing all their digital photos.

8. Rename Web Media "Internet Radio."  "Web" generally means websites abd HTML.

9. Rename TV Tuner "TV & Video" or just "Video."  There are times when an mpg video file is played, but the image isn't showing.  You have to click on "TV Tuner" to get it to show the video.

10. Consider a start-up video or audio - maybe a combination of THX and the Apple demos.

[nila]

Startup video with the basic features in it I think would be a GREAT idea. You load MC and a tutorial video showing how to do the basics comes up.
The problem is that this would add quite a bit to file size.


One alternative that I think would REALLY work well for MC to help explain it's basic features that are used regularly would be to have a flash animation that showed how to do the basics and set it as the start page.
Help files are fine and dandy but considered nerdy to read and most people I know just dont read them.
A little animation on the start page saying basically:

What do you want to do:

• Change a View Scheme
  
• Create a new View Scheme
  
• Copy a CD to my computer
  
• Convert some music
  
• etc with like 5-10 other things that people would do commonly
  
  Then have each one as a link, as you click on the link it starts an animation showing how to do it.
  
  
  It'd REALLY destroy the learning curve for MC as some people find instructions hard to follow (once you get lost at one point thats it often, your stuck no matter how easy the rest is). Nice pictures showing it all are perfect.

[NoCodeUK]

I would be quite happy to make some tutorial videos if they would be helpful to people...  I could make them to show the most basic features like creating a new view schme.  Choosing files to play etc.

Would this be useful J River?  And would they be able to be stored on your server space so that people could donwload them/stream them?  I do not have any web space so could not store them...  I have Adobe Premiere so I could turn them into a Real Audio/WMV stream if necessary.  They could then be sticky linked from the forum.  Let me know if this would be useful...

Adam

[sraymond]

Startup video with the basic features in it I think would be a GREAT idea.

Great idea...  and considering that MC already has an internal browser, I'd suggest that the best solution would be to develop a flash presentation website that gets called upon opening MC.  This would keep filesize the same and add great flexibility.

I think MC should concentrate more effort on the internet as a form of "pulled" media.  It wouldn't seem to take much effort!  I've mentioned this many times in the pass...  so far without much enthusiam from others.

Scott-