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[RoderickGI]

23.0.78 (10/24/2017)
8. NEW: Keyboard shortcuts for video lipsync adjustment.  SHIFT+COMMA (SHIFT+, or '<') to delay audio, SHIFT+PERIOD (SHIFT+. or '>') to advance audio, by 50 ms.  SHIFT+SLASH (SHIFT+/ or '?') to reset to zero.  This works for all DirectShow video file playback and time-shifted live TV.  Not for live TV in non-time-shifting mode (as VideoClock is disabled in the mode).

I've had a bit more of a play with this.

I see it applies the change globally for the current Zone, as shown in the "Options > Video > Advanced > A/V sync correction milliseconds" for both the 24 Hz and the 50, 60, 120 Hz display settings.
The changes are therefore persistent across MC restarts, and can be different for different Zones. Which is good, because it means that the WDM Driver Zone can be adjusted on the fly for a source without affecting other Zones.

But I was sort of hoping for a file/stream/source specific adjustment, with that adjustment stored against the file or against the stream (source) when using the WDM Driver with an external source, so that any adjustment made is persistent, but only for that source. I realise that this could be problematic, as the source isn't in the MC library typically, when using an external source with the WDM Driver. If an adjustment could be stored again each "Connected Media" record under Video, that would work for me. Maybe Ctrl+< and Ctrl+> could be used to adjust the currently playing "Connected Media" source?

For example, if I am using the WDM Driver with catch up TV I could be using one of several sources, from various channels. They all use different technologies and all produce different amounts of lag through the WDM Driver. At the same time streaming sources such as Stan and Netflix would have a different lag, although I haven't tested that yet. So a base adjustment for the Zone, plus a source specific adjustment would give me the most flexibility and the least work.

I was also hoping for it to be done via the OSD menu, so that I can use my remote immediately and see the amount of adjustment, much like the subtitle timing adjustment. But of course there is no OSD for "Connected Media" sources, so a keyboard shortcut, or maybe just a property of the "Connected Media" record would have to be used instead.

File specific adjustments for files in the library would still make sense via an OSD menu, with the adjustment stored in the [Playback Info] tag. Does tha ability to adjust lipsync via a setting in this tag already exist? I've never seen anything about it if it does.

I find it easy to see when lipsync is out, but if it is close I find it hard to determine which way it needs to be adjusted, earlier or later, so it can be fiddly and time-consuming to get it right. Therefore it would be nice if it could be adjusted for a source just once, and left alone, while persisting between MC sessions.

Also, I thought the 50ms steps was going to be a problem, but that seems to be okay.

So in summary:
An OSD for file specific lipsync adjustments, stored in the [Playback Info] tag. Useful when specific recordings or files have lipsync problems that need fixing, and an adjustment is preferable to editing the file.
The Keyboard Shortcuts < and > adjust the lipsync for a Zone, for all display settings, as per this new functionality.
The Keyboard Shortcuts Ctrl+< and Ctrl+> adjust the lipsync for a specific source in the "Connected Media" section, and programs in addition to web site can be added to "Connected Media", so that for example a Netflix App can be adjusted.

That is asking a lot, isn't it? Well, can't hurt to ask. Plus I'm sure that there are better ways to handle all sources. But maybe asking will prompt some thought.

[jmone]

This is great!  Thanks to whoever on the JR Team came up with it.

I have two scenarios:
1) Initial HTPC Setup: Play some test clips (see below) and adjust the sync.  Have this saved to the "Options > Video > Advanced > A/V sync correction milliseconds" but as Rod said, it should save any adjustments to the currently used display freq (eg 24 or 50/60/120 etc).  I'd suggest that this is done when the files used have a Media Sub Type of "System"
2) Individual Files: Some files are poorly muxed and need individual adjustment.  In this case, I'd suggest the offset is saved in the "Playback Info" tag for all files where the Media Sub Type is NOT "System".  This way it is remembered for next time!

Test Files:  Here are my old test files (80MB): link broken see futher down for new link
- They are all AVC 1080p and are 20sec long created from individual PNG with a beep at the "Top of the Hour"
- One for 24p (Film 23.976) / 50i (PAL 25fps) / 50p / 60i (NTSC 29.970) / 60p (59.940)

I'm happy for JR to share/link to these files or I'll even offer to make new versions or longer ones if needed (they are 20sec long at this stage)

Did I mention how good this is!!!  Loving the recent attention to Video

Thanks
Nathan

[jmone]

I'll even write up the Wiki on the above

[Yaobing]

The following will be in the next build.

Code: [Select]

2. Changed: When doing lip-sync adjustment using keyboard shortcuts (SHIFT+COMMA and SHIFT+PERIOD), the final result is saved in PlaybackInfo tag of the file, instead of the zone-specific settings, except when the file has Media Subtype of "System" (i.e. a calibration file).
3. Changed: When doing lip-sync adjustment using keyboard shortcuts (SHIFT+COMMA and SHIFT+PERIOD), the result is saved only for the particular display type (i.e. 24 Hz display vs. other displays).
4. NEW: When doing lip-sync adjustment using keyboard shortcuts (SHIFT+COMMA and SHIFT+PERIOD), an OSD message is shown to indicate current offset value.
5. Changed: When doing lip-sync adjustment using keyboard shortcuts (SHIFT+COMMA and SHIFT+PERIOD) on live TV, the final result is saved in PlaybackInfo tag of the TV channel.

I basically followed Nathan's suggestions.

I will be looking into the OSD implementation.  Then, if still necessary, I will add keyboard shortcuts for zone setting adjustment (CTRL+SHIFT+COMMA, CTRL+SHIFT+PERIOD).

[jmone]

   Thanks Yaobing.  I'll write up a guide this weekend in the Wiki and link to some test files.   I think I'll need to make them longer than 20sec however...(say 60sec and one for each of the main freq = 23.976 / 60 / 50 to match the options in the A/V sync correction settings).

This will be a nice easy calibration feature for MC + the ability to deal with the odd file with sync issues.  Love it.

[jmone]

This should also work really well for Zones.  I have a couple of MC Client PC with a Zone setup where the Audio goes out via Airplay (Tune Blade) for "Whole House" audio and has a big negative value (eg -800) but given the tortured path the Audio has to take this has a times been hard to get right. 

Eg - occasionally we use this setup to put up Music Videos on one of those big stretchie fabric screens for the kids (I guess they are now "Young Adults") when they have a party with the audio then streaming to multiple sets of speakers (I'm sure the neighbours love it!).  Then again.... I'm pretty sure the need for good sync diminishes as the night wears on ....

[mattkhan]

The following will be in the next build.

Code: [Select]

2. Changed: When doing lip-sync adjustment using keyboard shortcuts (SHIFT+COMMA and SHIFT+PERIOD), the final result is saved in PlaybackInfo tag of the file, instead of the zone-specific settings, except when the file has Media Subtype of "System" (i.e. a calibration file).
3. Changed: When doing lip-sync adjustment using keyboard shortcuts (SHIFT+COMMA and SHIFT+PERIOD), the result is saved only for the particular display type (i.e. 24 Hz display vs. other displays).
4. NEW: When doing lip-sync adjustment using keyboard shortcuts (SHIFT+COMMA and SHIFT+PERIOD), an OSD message is shown to indicate current offset value.
5. Changed: When doing lip-sync adjustment using keyboard shortcuts (SHIFT+COMMA and SHIFT+PERIOD) on live TV, the final result is saved in PlaybackInfo tag of the TV channel.


will this work for WDM playback? IIRC tags don't "stick" to the ipc library item (but I could be wrong about that)

[Hendrik]

Lipsync only ever works with video playback, it only controls the offset of audio to video. There is no such possibility when playing through WDM.
On that note you'll most likely need to correct WDM in the direction it cannot go, we can't make the audio arrive any earlier.

[RoderickGI]

Wow. This looks really great. Thank you Yaobing and the team.

This should make a big difference in usability. Much appreciated.

[jmone]

Here is an example of the Test Clip I'm doing for this (just 23.976 for now).  Before I make them all what do you think (any advice on useability)?
- Length is 1min
- MKV Format with AVC Video and PCM Audio (I can produce it any any combo)
- Have info in it for what buttons to press to advance / retard the audio.  Eg press the shown key combo if the black segment is on that side till it lines up at the top.

PS - My nextcloud server is playing up for some reason..... this one will have to do for now. https://ufile.io/554wy

[jmone]

All seems to be working well with the 24fps test clip - easy to dial in &
- I like the OSD
- Stores info correctly in Playback info for normal video files
- Stores info correctly in the AV Sync correction when the file is set "Media Sub Type = System"

Nice work

Time to make a 50 and 59.94 version of the test clip.

[jmone]

Here is the package of 3 AV Sync Videos (Film @ 23.976, PAL @ 50, and NTSC @ 59.94).  They are all 1 minute long and make using this new feature pretty easy. Let me know if there should be any changes.

It is 175MB - https://ufile.io/i97uf  If any good I'd suggest hosting the files on jriver.com. 

I've also started a wiki entry at https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Lip_Sync

[mattkhan]

Lipsync only ever works with video playback, it only controls the offset of audio to video. There is no such possibility when playing through WDM.
On that note you'll most likely need to correct WDM in the direction it cannot go, we can't make the audio arrive any earlier.

perhaps I'm actually thinking of a feature request, this is the situation I was thinking of

- play file
- determine audio delay is required (e.g. due to downstream video processing delays)
- set delay in jriver to +x ms

you could now allow a maximum of -x ms offset to be applied to WDM playback which may be sufficient to allow one to use the same zone for WDM playback as for jriver video playback

[Yaobing]

Here is the package of 3 AV Sync Videos (Film @ 23.976, PAL @ 50, and NTSC @ 59.94).  They are all 1 minute long and make using this new feature pretty easy. Let me know if there should be any changes.

It is 175MB - https://ufile.io/i97uf  If any good I'd suggest hosting the files on jriver.com. 

I've also started a wiki entry at https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Lip_Sync

I am having trouble getting sound out of these videos.  My amplifier detects PCM, but there is no sound.

[jmone]

Well they will not work well then!  Odd however as it just works for me....  This is what MC Reports

[jmone]

I was thinking about using DD as the encode format for the Audio.  Does this new Lipsync Adjustment work with both with and without Bitstreaming turned on?

[Yaobing]

Well they will not work well then!  Odd however as it just works for me....  This is what MC Reports

I get similar report.

[Yaobing]

I was thinking about using DD as the encode format for the Audio.  Does this new Lipsync Adjustment work with both with and without Bitstreaming turned on?

It may well be my system.  I had a computer crash nearly two weeks ago and I am having audio trouble since.  I restored sound card drivers enough to play most of my videos and audios, but somethings are still amiss.  I can play some files in one setting (like WASAPI) and need another setting (DirectSound) for some other files.

I can not get bitstreaming to work at this time, so I can not answer your question for sure. 

[jmone]

The -17db does not look right either.  I'm making a quick DD 2.0 version of the NTSC one for you to test as well.  I'll post a link when it is uploaded.

[Yaobing]

The -17db does not look right either.  I'm making a quick DD 2.0 version of the NTSC one for you to test as well.  I'll post a link when it is uploaded.

I can pull volume slider to 100% and eliminate that, but there is still no sound.

[jmone]

It's uploading now (will take a few minutes).  It's 80 odd MB and has a DD 2.0 track (but I did not change the txt on the slides saying PCM).  Just for testing.  If it works better for testing both for decoders and bit-streamers I'll convert them all over correctly.

...PCM should .... just ...work, no idea why it does not.

[jmone]

here it is - https://ufile.io/ru7yp

[Yaobing]

here it is - https://ufile.io/ru7yp

This one works, with decoder.  I am sure it is my system problem that bitstreaming does not work.

[jmone]

You must have something weird going on if only Bitstreaming works.  MC should be able to putput PCM all day long without issue to the AVR.  Unless you have unsupported sample rate or bit depth. but MC will warn on this an suggest an alternative.  Also if you are using direct sound it should be re-sampled by Windows anyway to what the sound driver wants.

[Yaobing]

Bitstreaming does not work on my system.  It used to work, but I don't know what happened and when it happened.  It may have happened before the latest computer crash.

I have just found out the reason why I could not play some of my files (audio or video) was that I need to set output sample rate to 48000.  My setting was like

Below 44100 -- 44100
44100 --- no change
48000 --- no change
above 4800 --- 48000

Some files that did not play were below 44100, and they would not play.  They started playing after I set everything to 48000.

That issue is very different from the issue of playing your PCM calibration video because playing the video there was no error, just no sound.

Well, I just tested bitstreaming again.  AC3 audio files do play, but not video containing AC3 audio!

[Yaobing]

I did a search in my library and found a few videos with PCM audio.  They all play fine.  The difference between my files and yours is that mine are pcm_s16le and yours are pcm_s16be.  That might have been the reason why I got silence.

[jmone]

Interesting, it just byte order (big vs little endian PCM), and MC likes both on my system - maybe one of the other guys can advise...... 

Anyway, happy to produce the set in DD/AC3 but want to see if there are any other changes I should make... eg does the clip Work as intended, typos etc?

Thanks
Nathan

[Yaobing]

I can not build a DirectShow graph in GraphStudio with Microsoft Audio decoder for the big-endian files.  LAV Audio decoder connects fine, just like in MC, but produces no sound.  My guess is my sound card probably does not support big-endian PCM audio.

Anyway, the DD version works very well.  I have not seen any issues.

[jmone]

OK - unless there is any other suggestions, I'll build the test clips as:
- MKV Container
- AVC Video
- AC3 Audio

[jmone]

AV Sync Test Files
These should be pretty easy to use, just:
- Download the test file(s) of choice and unzip the MKV file(s),
- Import the MKV file(s) into Media Center and set the Media Sub Type to "System"

Play the test file and when you hear the BEEP and the Black Segment is in the:
- LEFT Half --> Press "<" (eg "SHIFT + COMMA")
- RIGHT Half --> Press ">" (eg "SHIFT + PERIOD""
... repeat till the Beep coincides with Red Segment at the Top (See Pic).  You don't have to get this perfect (the adjustment is in 50ms increments) but you will be able to remove any noticeable lipsync.

Links:  MC Stores the lip sync adjustment in values in "Tools--> Options--> Video--> Advanced--> A/V Sync correction".  There is a value for 24hz Display and one for all else (eg 50, 60 etc).
- AV Sync Film (24MB) : This file is 23.976fps (typical Movies) and will populate the "24hz" Display value in MC
- AV Sync PAL (70MB) : This file is 50fps (typical PAL Video) and will populate the "50, 60 etc" Display value in MC
- AV Sync NTSC (86MB) : This file is 59.94fps (typical NTSC Video) and will populate the "50, 60 etc" Display value in MC

You probably only need the Film and either the PAL or NTSC test clip to calibrate your Display.  These test files are available in the Wiki - https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Lip_Sync

[Yaobing]

Thank you!

[park]

I have a question about the display playback rate. If the playback file is 24fps but the computer's refresh rate is 60hz, doesnt everything end up being played at 60hz? Or does Theater View change the playback rate when it goes full screen?

Sorry if this is slightly off topic

[Yaobing]

I have a question about the display playback rate. If the playback file is 24fps but the computer's refresh rate is 60hz, doesnt everything end up being played at 60hz? Or does Theater View change the playback rate when it goes full screen?

Sorry if this is slightly off topic

Someone please correct me if I am wrong.  The playback will automatically take care of the frame rate difference, i.e. the video will be played at 24 fps, (or some sort of manipulation done) so the video will not be sped up.  Inside MC there is also Display settings let you select a particular display mode so this works more smoothly.

[Yaobing]

The calibration files are now on JRiver's file server.  I edited the wiki article to include links to them.

[jmone]

Thanks - I've updated my post to use the Wiki Link for the files

Edit - also update the wiki entry

[jmone]

I have a question about the display playback rate. If the playback file is 24fps but the computer's refresh rate is 60hz, doesnt everything end up being played at 60hz? Or does Theater View change the playback rate when it goes full screen?

Sorry if this is slightly off topic

The video playback is always adjusted to match the frequency of your TV and Monitor which is good as that way you can watch any source material regardless of its fps.  The bad side is the PC has to make changes to the video stream for display, its somehow got to make 60 frames for the 60hz Monitor out of just 24 frames.  Typically it is done by Repeating, Dropping, and/or Blending video frames but as a result you may notice issues like jerking pans.  Good read is here - is how FILM --> NTSC is typically done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-two_pull_down.  This is just one example of how a conversion can be done (there are many others).

The good thing is MC can switch your Monitor/TV's refresh rate to match that of your content to avoid the above (if your TV/Monitor supports these refresh rates, most modern TV's do but not all monitors do).   To set this up use MC's "Display Settings automatic change mode" in Tools--> Options--> Video--> Display Settings, then see what your options are.

So if you leave your monitor (or TV) in 60hz mode then you would only use the NTSC test file to calibrate.  If you also use a 23.796/24hz refresh rate then also calibrate with the FILM test file.

[park]

Thanks Jmone.

I think that answers most of my question. So MC is trying to output 24fps material at that frame rate if the display (and graphics card i assume) will support it, and only happens when MC has full control of the display (when it is in full screen modes).

Perhaps a separate discussion but I wonder if MC tries to do the 48hz digital shutter thing to make 24fps material look smoother, or if it just leaves that to the tv to figure out.

If you are using the same hardware and display for playback, why would you need independant lipsync settings per playback rate? You would think that your amp and tv would always be out of sync by the same time amount regardless of what is being played.

[jmone]

Some AV Equipment tends to have a different lip sync amount when in 24hz mode than when in 50 / 60hz mode (hence why the two values were added).