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[Mupi]

Hi
I had installed MC23 and everything was fine. Today when I started, it was playing at full volume of the system. I have no control on the volume inside MC or of the Realtek audio. I have set the volume to system volume. Other software on my PC (windows 7) like itunes are fine i.e I am able to control the volume. I am not using any DSP. Any idea what could have gone wrong.
I have connected my PC via optical output to the Denon 3310 receiver. I am using the WASAPI exclusive option.
Thanks

[SMU2027]

Hi-recently started having the same problem. I am using MC 22; however.

[Awesome Donkey]

In MC's Options > Audio > Startup volume set to anything but -1? If so, that could be why.

[SMU2027]

Thanks I will check that out.

[Mupi]

Yep. That value is set to -1 and never changed it.

[Mupi]

If this volume thing had happened when I was listening at high levels, I could have ruined my speakers.

[JimH]

Then don't do that.

Try using MC's Internal Volume setting.

[Mupi]

Nothing is making be change either the MC volume or PC volume. Any song plays at full volume. This does not happen with itunes or anything on youtube. So I suspect it has to be MC. Basically I have no control over the volume either in MC or PC. I can slide the volume bar in MC or PC (windows 7) but that does not change the play volume.

[Mupi]

It is basically like my sound card is sending max volume to my receiver when I play MC23. I dont want that as I also play other things from my PC. So I like to be able to have control of the PC/MC23 volume. Since I have set the volume as "system volume", the PC volume control is same as MC23 volume control. But the volume control is just  not working.

[Mupi]

Where can I get the MC22 download? If this problem is with MC23, I would like to try MC22

[Mupi]

Installed MC22 and I dont have the problem. I have set the volume as "system volume" and I have control over the volume  unlike MC23 which was sending full volume.
Will wait and see if this stays before I increase the volume of my receiver to the usual level because another member mentioned in this thread that he had the problem with MC22 also. May be that is why this was moved to MC22.
I think this is a serious issue. Many of us set the amp/receiver gain/volume at a higher level and control the media player volume as we dont want to keep changing the amp/receiver gain/volume for different sources. So if MC22 or MC23 sends full volume, then that could ruin the speakers.

The volume protection doesnt help here as MC22 or 23 is already sending full volume.

[Mupi]

Well MC22 is also giving the same problem. I had control over the volume initially. I stopped playing for a while and when I started after a while, MC22 is now sending full volume. Glad I didnt set my receiver volume back to normal. So I guess I will stop using MC22 or MC23 until this bug gets fixed.

[DarkPenguin]

So if you have the system volume mixer up MC slams it to max as soon as it starts?

[DJLegba]

Check the Sound setting in your control panel. Is JRiver Media Center listed as a device, and if so, is it the default? I realize this doesn't appear to be relevant, but I had a similar issue. If you don't want to use Media Center to play from other Windows applications you can uncheck the WDM driver in the Features section of the General setup area.

[Mupi]

Well JR will not be listed as a device as it is a software. The Realtek optical output is listed as a device and that is my default device. However JR shows up in the volume panel of windows. Since I am using the exclusive option in WASAPI, when I am running JR, I am not using any other audio device. So I guess there should not be a need to mess with anything else in windows. I am not using MC22/23 to play from other applications. I am playing just in itself.

I am able to move the volume bar of either JR MC22/23 or that of the PC but MC22/23 is constantly sending full volume. So moving the volume bar has no effect.

No matter what option I set for the volume like system volume, internal volume, application volume etc. MC is always sending full volume.  So I would rather not use it until the bug is reproduced and fixed. I use different software in my professional career. So I know what it takes to reproduce a bug and fix it. Until then I have to look for some other media player. I thought I really liked the features of JR MC. For $49 it is a no brainer. Unfortunately this happened.

[Mupi]

So if you have the system volume mixer up MC slams it to max as soon as it starts?

Yes. All songs play at max volume regardless of where the volume bar is positioned, whether it is the volume bar of the system or the application (MC22/23), regardless of the volume setting like system, internal, application etc.

[RoderickGI]

When you play something, check the Audio Path and see if there are any volume adjustments in there.

I have a similar setup to your, using Realtek optical output. I use Internal Volume and so should you, and everyone else. You should uncheck the WDM Driver in MC Features since you don't use it and if it isn't set up right with other players and MC, it could result in a similar problem. Reboot your PC and restart MC after you untick the WDM, just to be sure it is gone. It won't appear under Windows Playback Devices once it is gone.

When testing changes to the Volume setup (selecting System, Internal etc.) you must at least stop playback in MC, and I prefer to restart MC, as it is a significant change.

Try the above and see what happens. Keep checking the Audio Path to see if something unusual is happening in there.

[Mupi]

I noticed that WDM is unchecked by default

[RoderickGI]

I noticed that WDM is unchecked by default

Well that depends somewhat on previous installations, and some updates seem to have automatically installed it sometimes. Or seem to have. You said "However JR shows up in the volume panel of windows" but I'm not sure exactly what you mean there.

Just check that JRiver doesn't appear in the Windows Playback Devices list, to be sure.

PS: Also, as you have moved between MC22 and MC23, backup the library you are currently using, completely uninstall both MC22 and MC23, then reinstall MC23 and restore the library backup you made. You don't want mixed components from both versions when trying to solve these problems.

[RoderickGI]

Yep. That value is set to -1 and never changed it.

Also, set this value to 20. Now.
Make sure you are using Internal Volume.
Turn on Volume Protection.

Options > Audio > Volume > for these settings.

[JimH]

PS: Also, as you have moved between MC22 and MC23, backup the library you are currently using, completely uninstall both MC22 and MC23, then reinstall MC23 and restore the library backup you made. You don't want mixed components from both versions when trying to solve these problems.

I don't think uninstalling is necessary.  Running the right version is.

I don't know of any conflict caused by "mixed components".

[RoderickGI]

I don't think uninstalling is necessary.  Running the right version is.

I don't know of any conflict caused by "mixed components".

But I do Jim.

How about running a MC22 version of the WDM with MC23?
How about turning off Windows UAC because of those annoying popup messages, and so never seeing the request to update components to the MC23 version, or visa versa, when switching back and forth between versions?
What are the implications of using different versions of madVR and LAV installed on the same PC with different versions of MC? Should work together, because MC uses the version installed in its directory structure. But are there any Registry implications?


Multiple versions of MC work fine together, if a user knows what they are doing. Otherwise, it is a bit of a crapshoot.

No offence to you or Mupi, but s/he registered today and has a major problem that no-one else has. Best to keep the installation clean and simple for problem solving.

[JimH]

There's no harm in doing what you suggest.  And I won't argue that you can't make a mistake. 

MC23 playback using MC22's WDM would work.  It's just a driver.  Setting both to use WDM might be "interesting", but we can't prevent users from doing things they shouldn't do.

Red October HQ installs and uses it's own copy of madVR.

Turning off UAC isn't a good idea, and users should not be surprised if they have trouble doing so.

And so on.

Most one-off problems end up being something "special" on a machine.  You know the usual suspects.

In this case, something (not MC23) is setting system volume to 100%.  Windows?  Another application?  Computers usually do what you tell them to do.

I do appreciate your help.  I just don't want suspicion propagated.  I hope you understand.

[Mupi]

Well that depends somewhat on previous installations, and some updates seem to have automatically installed it sometimes. Or seem to have. You said "However JR shows up in the volume panel of windows" but I'm not sure exactly what you mean there.

Just check that JRiver doesn't appear in the Windows Playback Devices list, to be sure.

PS: Also, as you have moved between MC22 and MC23, backup the library you are currently using, completely uninstall both MC22 and MC23, then reinstall MC23 and restore the library backup you made. You don't want mixed components from both versions when trying to solve these problems.

In windows volume mixer i.e control panel -> hardware and sound-> adjust system volume, JRiver is shown. But JRiver is not shown as an audio device in windows. Like I said before, Realtek optical audio is shown as the audio device.

When I installed MC22 I did check the option to delete the library.

Long story short, I want to set the volume to "system volume" and be able to adjust the MC22 or 23 volume using the system volume. This way I just set my receiver volume at my desired level and change only the system (PC) volume. This is not working as MC sends out full volume. I dont want to keep changing the AVR volume. I use a wireless mouse and so changing the PC system volume when I am using different things (not all at the same time of course) on my PC like playing JRiver or playing youtube videos or watching CNN videos etc., it is a lot easier for me to just change the PC volume than to reach out to the remote all the time. Plus when I am playing say JR, I am also checking emails and so if I want to turn down the volume to focus on the email, it is easier to use the mouse and change the system volume.

Like I also said, if I am able to use PC system volume with itunes and all other things that play sound on my PC, I dont think there is any problem with my PC setting. If it happens only with MC22/23 it has to be a problem with MC22/23. For a simple thing like volume, the user should not have to dig deep into windows.

There was another person who said he had the same issue with MC22. I would like to hear from him. Have not seen any posts from him.

[Mupi]

No offence to you or Mupi, but s/he registered today and has a major problem that no-one else has. Best to keep the installation clean and simple for problem solving.

There was indeed another person who mentioned he or she has the same problem with MC22. Just that we have not seen more posts from him her. His/her post is way up in the thread.

[Mupi]

Hi-recently started having the same problem. I am using MC 22; however.

Are you still have the same problem? i.e if you set the volume to "system volume" does MC22 play at max volume.

[Mupi]

BTW I registered yesterday because I started having the problem yesterday  It wasn't the other way i.e I registered yesterday and suddenly I started having a major problem. I may have found this forum later if I had encountered some other problem later.

Whether it is reported just by one or 2 users or it is a very common issue, it is an issue related to MC. Unique issue in any software is triggered only by an unique situation. Whether this is a MC problem or PC problem, it would be nice to get to the bottom of this.

[RoderickGI]

Yes Jim, I hear you and understand what you are saying. It is just that when trying to fix such problems it is best to start with a clean installation. I was providing justification for getting Mupi to that point.

So, starting from a clean MC23 installation, I don't believe MC has a bug. But it does have some quirks, and its volume control needs to be understood.

For example, if a user sets Volume Mode to Internal Volume, the System Volume slider and the MC Internal Volume slider act independently, and in an additive fashion. So 50% on each slider is actually 25% of the total volume available. If a user has set Internal Volume and has set Startup Volume to "-1" (which means leave the Internal Volume slider where it was last set when MC was closed), then when MC is launched both volume sliders are left at their last position. The System Volume slider because it hasn't been manually changed, and the Internal Volume slider because the Startup Volume hasn't been set to a specific value.

Now with those settings as soon as a user starts playing a media file, video or audio, the System Volume slider is set to 100% by MC, while the Internal Volume slider is left as it was. This is by design, because it allows the maximum volume output to the audio device, hence the best signal to noise ratio. Volume control is all done using the Internal Volume slider, although the System Volume slider can also be adjusted, and it will change the volume. When playback of the media file is stopped the System Volume slider reverts to the setting it was before playback started. So the System Volume isn't left at 100%, which would be a problem if any sounds were played outside of MC. As I am assuming WASAPI Exclusive mode output on the audio device (Realtek), then while MC is playing something no other sounds, such a system sounds, can be played. So no unexpected loud and potentially damaging noises are possible while the System Volume slider is set to 100%.

That is the way MC works and is by design. Note that if Volume Protection is turned on then when playback is started, the Internal Volume slider is set to 20% (if it was higher than that already) and movement of the slider is constrained so that a high volume can't be accidentally set with one click, for example. The Internal Volume slider is not set back to a position higher than 20% when playback stops.

Mupi, these are features that help protect your speakers from being overdriven by accident, when using the Internal Volume mode. Note that you can still control Internal Volume with your mouse. Just hover the mouse over the Internal Volume slider and scroll the mouse wheel. That still works on the System Volume slider as well, to reduce the volume from 100% where MC has set it.


So Mupi, you want to use System Volume slider in the Windows tray area to control volume, correct? Okay, I can understand that, even though Internal Volume mode is better. First, the setting we are talking about here is under;
Options > Audio > Volume > Volume mode.

So set that to System Volume, as you say you have done before. Now the System Volume slider in the Windows Tray area is linked to the volume slider inside MC. When either is set to 100%, the output volume will be maximised, and both will be the same %.

Again the volume slider will be left at their existing position until a media file is played, and then they will be set to 100%. Again, this is to maximise the Signal to Noise ratio output by your PC, so that your receiver/amp can make the best use of the signal. That is, your amp/receiver can be set at a relatively lower volume to get the same output, and with less noise from the source file. When playback is stopped the volume sliders are returned to their original position. Startup Volume and Volume Protection still work in this configuration.

But this configuration of MC isn't ideal, as when you finish playing something in MC the volume of other sounds from the PC are set at a lower level, and since the amp/receiver is set at a lower level, those other sounds, including for example playback of media files using other software, will be at a lower level than you want to listen to. Unless, of course, you always set your PC System Volume to 100% and control volume using your Amp/Receiver volume control. That is one of the reasons why Internal Volume mode is better than System Volume mode in MC.

But anyway, all that is academic and really just an education for you about how volume control works in MC. Hopefully, you understand more about the sophisticated volume control built into MC. If you still want to use System Volume mode in MC, and you do not want the volume to jump to something when you play a media file, go to:

Options > Audio > Audio Device > Device Settings > untick "Maximize device volume during playback".

Done. Fixed. There is no bug, just many settings in MC that need to be understood to get the best out of the software.



The only time I have seen the System Volume slider have no effect on volume output is when the WDM Driver is set as the default Audio Playback Device in Windows, and from memory, when Internal Volume is selected. In this case, the System Volume slider is trying to change the Input Volume to MC, via the Output Volume of the WDM Driver. This is not allowed because that would make the signal to noise ratio worse. Hence why I suggested uninstalling the WDM Driver, to remove the possibility that you have been trying to use MC in that way.

[Mupi]

If that is the way MC "system volume" works, it is fine. But in my opinion it is a bad idea. Because many of us leave the receiver/amp at a higher level as we have set them up for other media and so sending a max output would blow the speakers. I will just use the internal volume. I would rather use the AVR remote and change the AVR volume than risk blowing up my speakers by a $50 software. I am glad I was first experimenting JR MC23 on my home office PC with cheap speakers and not on my HTPC which is my main system.

I feel that there should be warning regarding this inside MC like a pop up window when the user clicks the volume option or the volume button at the left end of the internal volume slider so that they don't blow up their speakers and the default should be set to "internal volume".

It would also be a good idea to post that detailed explanation in the wiki page under volume so that new users get first hand information that would save their speakers. This should rather be posted as a BIG WARNING as this is dangerous behavior.

[JimH]

If that is the way MC "system volume" works, it is fine. But in my opinion it is a bad idea. Because many of us leave the receiver/amp at a higher level as we have set them up for other media and so sending a max output would blow the speakers. I will just use the internal volume. I would rather use the AVR remote and change the AVR volume than risk blowing up my speakers by a $50 software.

I'm sorry but it isn't the software that could blow up your speakers.  It's not understanding what you're doing that creates the risk.  If you set it at 100%, it will play at 100%. 

[Mupi]

I don't set it at 100%. MC is forcing it to 100% when I pick system volume if I understood that detailed explanation above. So this behavior should be informed to the users so that they understand how MC volume works. I don't think this is explained anywhere else.

[DJLegba]

Well JR will not be listed as a device as it is a software.

[Mupi]

This is only if you install WDM drivers for JR. If WDM is unchecked in MC, those drivers are not installed and so JR will not show up in the device list in windows. But it will show up in the volume mixer.

[RoderickGI]

Lots of things show up in the Volume Mixer, even though they are not real devices, or even device drivers. This is completely normal, even if you have never noticed it with other applications.

[RoderickGI]

Because many of us leave the receiver/amp at a higher level as we have set them up for other media and so sending a max output would blow the speakers.

That is understood, which is why all the old hands around here recommend Internal Volume.

You can match the Startup Volume to give the same volume output as your other media, and theoretically never touch the Receiver/Amp volume control. I prefer to set the Startup Volume to an actual value rather than use the "-1" setting which gives you the previous value. That way I can set the volume to a level that would be okay for the loudest media I have, without it blaring out when it starts playing.

The best setup would have all input devices to your Receiver/Amp set at a level so that the Receiver/Amp is normally running at its sweet spot, not too low, and certainly not anywhere near the maximum level. I'm no expert in where that sweet spot resides for most Receiver/Amps, so I use a rule of thumb of between 30 and 50% on the volume control. Generally speaking though, all input devices should be using the maximum practical output volume so that the signal to noise ratio is as large as possible, minimising noise.

From what you have said you should increase the volume on your other media sources and reduce the volume on your Receiver/Amp.

Oh, and by the way, you are welcome.

[Mupi]

I think I have found a solution to my volume poblem.

If the volume is set to internal volume, you said both the MC volume slider and system volume slider work additively and then when anything is played, MC pushes the system volume to 100%,which I dont want as I have set my AVR volume at a higher level for other media. Yeah I can uncheck the option that says maximize volume on play back but I still dont like this as I want a single volume control.

So this is what I found out since I have been playing wih this volume thing yesterday The above mentioned way the volume works is true if the audio device is set to "Direct Sound" in the MC audio options. But we know that Direct Sound is not the preferred option and WASAPI is the preferred option. By default the audio device is set to "Direct Sound" in MC. So when I set the audio device to WASAPI, I noticed that only the MC volume slider woks and the system volume slider has no effect on the volume though it can be moved up and down. Now MC does not push the system volume to 100% as the system volume is basically diasbled. And now I can leave my AVR at the same higher volume I use for other media and use only the MC volume slider. This is the best option for me and also for those who dont like to keep changing their amp/AVR volume back and forth when they move from MC to other media.

[RoderickGI]

If the volume is set to internal volume, you said both the MC volume slider and system volume slider work additively

I use WASAPI and did all my testing to confirm what I wrote using WASAPI. I can assure you, what I wrote is correct when using WASAPI. The two volume sliders are additive. The System Volume slider has an effect on the volume ouput.
The only time I have seen where moving the System Volume slider has no effect on the volume is when the WDM Driver is involved, in which case the System Volume slider is trying to change the WDM Driver output volume, which is not allowed. So if you have the Windows Default Playback Device set to the JRiver WDM Driver device, this can happen.

Let's just confirm here. The System Volume slider is the volume slider shown when you click on the speaker icon in the system tray in Windows. It is also the volume slider shown for the Windows Default Playback Device in the Realtek Volume Mixer, which in my case is "Speakers" on my workstation, as per the image above.

If you want a single volume slider control, use System Volume mode in MC.
As you are using WASAPI, make sure that you have set "Open device for exclusive access" in the MC Device settings. This is better. Note that you won't hear system sounds when MC is playing something.
Make sure that you untick the "Maximize device volume during playback" setting, so MC will not set the volume to 100%.
If you do that I recommend that you set the Startup Volume to a setting that will not result in overpowering your speakers no matter what you play. Say 30%, but you need to decide that.
Alternately, if you are confident that you will never leave the volume slider at a high setting, set the Startup Volume to "-1" and MC will always startup with the volume at the level you left it last time you used MC.

If you are still concerned about overpowering your speakers, tick the "Volume Protection" checkbox. MC will then set the volume slider to 20% when any playback is started, and will prevent large fast volume changes using the volume slider inside MC, by ignoring clicks on the volume slider and forcing the user to drag the volume slider slowly up to a higher value. This setting, of course, won't prevent you from clicking 100% in the system volume slider in the Windows system tray. which is why it is recommended that you use the slider inside MC.


You could also try playing around with the volume modes "Disabled Volume" and "Application Volume" which also give you a single volume slider, but work differently.

[JimH]

... when anything is played, MC pushes the system volume to 100%

I know you're seeing that, but MC doesn't do that.

[Mupi]

Let's just confirm here. The System Volume slider is the volume slider shown when you click on the speaker icon in the system tray in Windows. It is also the volume slider shown for the Windows Default Playback Device in the Realtek Volume Mixer, which in my case is "Speakers" on my workstation, as per the image above.

Yes.

For now I will stick with the option that is working for me. i.e set the volume to internal volume, use WASAPI with exclusive access. For some reason this disables the system volume. The WDM and "maximize volume when playback" options are also not checked.  I had never checked those options before either with MC22 or 23.

Like I said before unique software issues always happen at unique circumstances. Unless anyone sits with me, I cant convince anyone that what is happening to me is really happening

Those who like to watch movies or listen to audio at reference level would certainly be apprehensive of MC pushing system volume to 100%. I dont listen at reference level but imagine if someone is already set up to listening at reference level and then you add another 20db or so on top of it. I had never checked "maximize volume when playback" but still MC was pushing to 100% volume. So I just dont want to go back and experiment with the system volume option or anything else now.

If my current option also after sometime goes cranky and pushes the system volume to 100%, I will just stop using JR. That time you can buy my PC and do the debugging :-)

[JimH]

For now I will stick with the option that is working for me. i.e set the volume to internal volume, use WASAPI with exclusive access. For some reason this disables the system volume.

Exclusive mode means that the software using it has exclusive control.  No other application can use it.

Try a Google search if you want to know more.

[Mupi]

As per that detailed post above, those settings do allow both the internal volume slider and system volume slider to work additively. But that does not happen on my PC.

Please  keep in mind that just because the problem does not exist on the machine you tested, it does not mean that it does not exist on any other machine at all. Stop by my place and I will show you how MC23 behaves on my PC. It is pointless to keep making the same argument back and forth when you cant accept the fact  that I see an anomaly of the software behavior on my PC.

[JimH]

I have no doubt that you see a problem.  I just don't think it's a JRiver problem.  I do understand that you think it is.

[Mupi]

I don't see itunes volume behaving like MC volume on my PC. So I do think it is a JRiver problem.

You keep talking about the theoretical behavior of the software, where as I keep talking about the actual anomaly of the software that I see on my PC.

I dont think we can get to the bottom of this unless both parties sit together with the PC (my PC) that shows the anomaly. But I don't think it is going to happen. If there is going to be some kind of JRiver users meet or something near Michigan I shall bring my PC to that meet. For now I will leave it the way it is as it is working for me.

[JimH]

... I will leave it the way it is as it is working for me.

That's good to hear.