More > JRiver Media Center 23 for Windows
MC doesn't behave nicely doing resource intensive tasks
steff:
--- Quote from: JimH on January 26, 2018, 06:40:29 pm ---Still an OS issue. Sorry.
--- End quote ---
Unfortunately it is not an OS issue.
Maybe I did not explained in the correct way the problem.
Let me show a very simple example: browsing an archive hosted on a NAS or on another computer, even using 1 Gbps wired ethernet, is not of course a matter of micro-seconds... it depends on the number of folders and files.
So it is absolutely NORMAL to experience a delay in the MC23 responsiveness... ok? this is not the problem, it is normale ad acceptable.
What is NOT normal is that during this time MC23 hangs... its windows expands to the full screen, overlapping even the Windows taskbar (so unable to do anything else) and become totally blurry.
This is not normal!
the delay is nornal, the behaviour during the delay is not.
Moreover, if the delay is significative... then you can even face the Windows pop-up saying that MC23 is not responding and asking if you wish to wait or close the program.
This is not normal!
when my end user are working with the SAP GUI and they submit a huge query, maybe thay have to wait several seconds, but the application does not hang!
when others are working with CAD\CAE programs and they deal with several Gbytes data... it is a matter of minutes, not seconds but the interface of Catia or ProE does not hang end no one receive a message from windows to eventually kill the applications.
hope to be more clear now.
RoderickGI:
Actually, except for the window expanding to full screen, overlapping the taskbar and so on, I have occasionally seen Windows Explorer exhibiting this "locked up, won't respond" condition since upgrading to Windows 10. Internet Explorer as well. Typically when I am searching for something using Windows Explorer, where even the progress bar for the search locks up, and trying to close Explorer just won't work. Although I have never seen the popup asking if you should wait or close the application. I also see long delays to display the contents of a network folder using Windows Explorer, and at other times it is almost instant. I do see the issue on MC at times. I nearly always just tell it to wait, unless I don't have time. It often comes back within seconds, and sometimes never comes back, but usually only if I have been doing a lot of tagging or moving of files, or using a Client extensively and them return to use the Server.
So I think most of the issue is an OS issue, but I have been unable to determine what is driving that it. It could be my virus scanner trying to check a whole disk, it could be the Windows Indexing function trying to index and/or catch up on the file changes. Sometimes Windows even tells me it is indexing files. It does happen too often in MC, but then for me, MC is often making small modifications to many, many files, and so either the virus scanner or indexing could be the issue. It does look to me that MC is waiting for some other thread to complete, or even more likely, MC is being prevented from doing anything until some OS thread has passed control back to it. It could be that MC retains a lock on the last file it touched (or seems to always) and some other Windows process (virus scanner or indexing) is waiting for MC to release that lock so it can do its thing and return control to MC.
The comparison to SAP is entirely unfair. MC looks like it has a database, but it is actually a flat file system that is programmatically operating as a database. SAP running on Oracle or any of the other options runs a full-blown database server with built-in database functions. Much of the data processing is happening on highly optimised algorithms built into the database. Often the User Interface is a thin Client and is not doing any processing, so it can go on and do other tasks, particularly handle user interaction. CAD\CAE programs operate in a very similar way, unless you are running them fully on a stand-alone Workstation, and even then there are support services running under the hood. Not a relevant comparison to a US$50 consumer product at all.
But I agree that I see it too often with MC, and it would be nice to know why, and how to avoid it. However I think it might be installation specific, with Windows, Drivers, other applications, and Hardware all contributing. So very difficult to find a definitive answer.
Regarding the window expanding to full screen, overlapping the taskbar and so on, I think you need to look to your video card, driver, default Windows resolution, and so on to find an answer. There are a few, very few, situations where Windows will sort of defocus the current window and change the resolution, font, or something. I can't even think of an example at the moment. Nor have I seen it in a long time.
Spike1000:
--- Quote from: RoderickGI on January 27, 2018, 09:43:34 pm ---Regarding the window expanding to full screen, overlapping the taskbar and so on, I think you need to look to your video card, driver, default Windows resolution, and so on to find an answer. There are a few, very few, situations where Windows will sort of defocus the current window and change the resolution, font, or something. I can't even think of an example at the moment. Nor have I seen it in a long time.
--- End quote ---
I've seen the 'overlapping' of the task bar many times. The defocus/blurry screen is caused by the window (MC is full screen) being re-sized to map over the space where the task bar was. The 1 to 1 pixel mapping is lost as the screen is re-scaled to fit the larger space, this causes it go a bit blurry. It's not a resolution change as I think you're describing it so I don't think it's a driver/video card issue as you describe.
I have never seen this screen related behaviour in any other application (I have experience in managing 100s and 100s of them in enterprise situations).
My guess is that this is caused by a key thread that gets 'stuck' (or maxed out) for a few seconds. It always recovers if you leave it, if you try and interrupt it you get a 'grey' screen and a 'program not responding' error. This behaviour I *have* seen in at least one other application and that is caused by a key thread getting 'stuck' (or probably maxed out in this case); again, in that case if you leave it it always recovers.
In my experience it's not related to the network as I see it most often with a high spec standalone laptop (i7, 16GB, SSD, W10 etc).
Spike
flac.rules:
--- Quote from: Fitzcaraldo215 on January 27, 2018, 06:29:12 pm ---Ok, but if you expect some help, why be so mysterious and elusive? Please, give some specifics about exactly what you are attempting to do and more specific symptoms of the problem.
--- End quote ---
I wasn't trying to be mysterious or elusive, in fact in my very first post i present a very concrete specific case where the problem occurs, and what happens.
flac.rules:
--- Quote from: RoderickGI on January 27, 2018, 09:43:34 pm ---
So I think most of the issue is an OS issue, but I have been unable to determine what is driving that it. It could be my virus scanner trying to check a whole disk, it could be the Windows Indexing function trying to index and/or catch up on the file changes. Sometimes Windows even tells me it is indexing files. It does happen too often in MC, but then for me, MC is often making small modifications to many, many files, and so either the virus scanner or indexing could be the issue. It does look to me that MC is waiting for some other thread to complete, or even more likely, MC is being prevented from doing anything until some OS thread has passed control back to it. It could be that MC retains a lock on the last file it touched (or seems to always) and some other Windows process (virus scanner or indexing) is waiting for MC to release that lock so it can do its thing and return control to MC.
The comparison to SAP is entirely unfair. MC looks like it has a database, but it is actually a flat file system that is programmatically operating as a database. SAP running on Oracle or any of the other options runs a full-blown database server with built-in database functions. Much of the data processing is happening on highly optimised algorithms built into the database. Often the User Interface is a thin Client and is not doing any processing, so it can go on and do other tasks, particularly handle user interaction. CAD\CAE programs operate in a very similar way, unless you are running them fully on a stand-alone Workstation, and even then there are support services running under the hood. Not a relevant comparison to a US$50 consumer product at all.
--- End quote ---
It might be (and it probably is) an OS issue, but we as users can't do anything about the OS, fair or not, programs should try to behave as nice as possible, even when the OS does stupid stuff.
And this isn't something only CAD-programs do well. It is normal behavior for free programs also to handle this kind of time consuming tasks without "hanging up" and disturbing the system.
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