More > JRiver Media Center 23 for Windows
Request change in handling of multi-channel
Fitzcaraldo215:
--- Quote from: RD James on February 08, 2018, 11:57:46 am ---I think the issue here is the difference between DACs, which are 'dumb' devices, and an AVR or a Sound Card.
With a 'dumb' device like a DAC, each channel has a fixed assignment, typically:
1 - Left
2 - Right
3 - Center
4 - LFE
5 - Side Left
6 - Side Right
7 - Rear Left
8 - Rear Right
So if you send them a four channel source, they map the Rear Left/Rear Right channels to Center / LFE (channels 3 & 4).
When you send a Sound Card or AVR a four channel source, they know that it's a quadrophonic track, and map the Rear Left/Rear Right to the correct output channels (7 & 8).
I'm not sure that there is anything for Media Center to do here, because Media Center is behaving correctly.
When you play a four channel source and tell it to use the "source number of channels", it outputs a four channel signal mapped to channels 1-4.
If you set the output to "5.1 channels" it maps the output to channels 1,2,5,6 and if you set the output to "7.1 channels" it maps them to 1,2,7,8 ensuring that the sound is played to the Rear channels rather than the Center/LFE channels.
(apparently Rear Left/Rear right move from channels 5 & 6 in 5.1 to 7 & 8 in a 7.1 signal, unless Media Center is doing the wrong thing here)
The fact that 6.0 media exists means that it would be a problem if you tried to map all 6 channel sources to a 5.1 output.
--- End quote ---
Maybe because I only use SACD or BD rips, I have never seen files with only 3,4 or 7 actual physical channels. 6 channels in the metadata tag on any of my files really always means 5.1. Otherwise, all my files are 2, 5 or 8 in the metadata tag, with 8 meaning 7.1 on output. As explained, the 3 or 4 channel SACD recordings I have are already in 5 channel containers automatically via the ripping/extraction process.
dtc:
--- Quote from: Fitzcaraldo215 on February 08, 2018, 12:21:15 pm ---Maybe because I only use SACD or BD rips, I have never seen files with only 3,4 or 7 actual physical channels. 6 channels in the metadata tag on any of my files really always means 5.1. Otherwise, all my files are 2, 5 or 8 in the metadata tag, with 8 meaning 7.1 on output. As explained, the 3 or 4 channel SACD recordings I have are already in 5 channel containers automatically via the ripping/extraction process.
--- End quote ---
There is a 6.0 format that has been used. It was never very popular, but it definitely exists. It has 2 fronts, 2 sides. 2 rears and no LFE. It is meant for music, especially classical music, not movies. The center channel for an orchestra is pretty meaningless. Low bass goes to the front. The mapping is in my previous post. I would need to check, but I am pretty sure that is correct.
EDIT : Here is a link to a discussion of 6.0 audio.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/chesky.htm
Fitzcaraldo215:
--- Quote from: dtc on February 08, 2018, 12:28:16 pm ---There is a 6.0 format that has been used. It was never very popular, but it definitely exists. It has 2 fronts, 2 sides. 2 rears and no LFE. It is meant for music, especially classical music, not movies. The center channel for an orchestra is pretty meaningless. Low bass goes to the front. The mapping is in my previous post. I would need to check, but I am pretty sure that is correct.
--- End quote ---
Do you know what medium they occurred on, DAD perhaps? 6.0's are probably some 1990's relic. Once SACD's Scarlet Book was published about '99, the 5.0/5.1 ITU channel configuration became the widespread standard as SACD became the prevailing force for Mch music. Fortunately, that was also compatible with later DTS and Dolby standards for lossless, hirez BD codecs.
It is possible, but I am still doubting there is much music or video out there in 6.0.
We disagree, by the way, on the importance of the center channel for classical, orchestral or other music in Mch.
dtc:
--- Quote from: Fitzcaraldo215 on February 08, 2018, 12:55:08 pm ---Do you know what medium they occurred on, DAD perhaps? 6.0's are probably some 1990's relic. Once SACD's Scarlet Book was published about '99, the 5.0/5.1 ITU channel configuration became the widespread standard as SACD became the prevailing force for Mch music. Fortunately, that was also compatible with later DTS and Dolby standards for lossless, hirez BD codecs.
It is possible, but I am still doubting there is much music or video out there in 6.0.
We disagree, by the way, on the importance of the center channel for classical, orchestral or other music in Mch.
--- End quote ---
6.0 recordings came about at the time of SACDs and DVD-A. It was an alternative to 5.1. If you read the Chesky article I linked to, it discusses the important of side and rear reflects for concert hall music and why he, at least, favored that over a center and LFE channel. There are certainly 6.0 options on some SACD/DVD-A, although, as I said, it was never a big player. Mch players and receivers of the time had 6.0 input and output options.
Probably overstated the usefulness of the center channel for classical. The point was it is very different for classical than for movies. I would agree that a center is great for soundstage, but that is definitely different than the use of center speakers for voice in movies. And the center should be full range, which they seldom are.
Meridian once had a 3 channel front system that basically created a great center sound stage using the left and right channels. It was impressive, but never caught on.
Anyway, the number of people with 6.0 files is certainly very small, but it was a legitimate format for a while.
EDIT: I think the only 6.0 DVD-Audios that were release were from Chesky Records (David Chesky). I cannot find any other references. They were never in high production, but there were some out there. The problem was you needed a specific speaker setup and you then you needed to turn off LFE +10dB boost.
As I said, never really caught on, but it was out there. But my guess is that if 6.0 went to 5.1 nobody would notice. But, if fixes for the other anomalies can be made, might as well leave in 6.0
RD James:
--- Quote from: Fitzcaraldo215 on February 08, 2018, 12:21:15 pm ---Maybe because I only use SACD or BD rips, I have never seen files with only 3,4 or 7 actual physical channels. 6 channels in the metadata tag on any of my files really always means 5.1. Otherwise, all my files are 2, 5 or 8 in the metadata tag, with 8 meaning 7.1 on output. As explained, the 3 or 4 channel SACD recordings I have are already in 5 channel containers automatically via the ripping/extraction process.
--- End quote ---
I have DVDs and Blu-rays with 3, 5, and 7 channels stored on them. 3 channels is typically L/R/C, 5 channels doesn't use the LFE, and 7 channels is 6.1
I don't have any Blu-rays or DVDs with 4 channels, but do have a few music tracks - though not SACD. 4.0 is typically stored in a 5.0 or 5.1 container.
I'm sure that I have some 6.0 discs, but can't see an easy way to identify them without playing them one-by-one.
--- Quote from: dtc on February 08, 2018, 01:19:00 pm ---As I said, never really caught on, but it was out there. But my guess is that if 6.0 went to 5.1 nobody would notice. But, if fixes for the other anomalies can be made, might as well leave in 6.0
--- End quote ---
I'm not clear on what mapping all 6 channel formats to 5.1 is supposed to fix anyway.
I just went through 25 6-channel SACDs using preview mode, and they're all treated as 5.1 by Media Center, not 6.0
I suspect this is another channel mapping issue caused by using the "Source Channels" with a DAC rather than an AVR / Sound Card.
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