Topic: Auto Focus in the Panes (Read 5686 times)

gkerber · « **on:** June 17, 2003, 06:09:12 pm »

I wonder if it could be done or desirable to have the mouse gain auto focus when entering a pane? That way the mouse wheel would be instantly available, without having to click on something to get focus into the window.

Thoughts?

Doof · « **Reply #1 on:** June 17, 2003, 06:24:59 pm »

The only thought I have on this is

[size=12]YES![/size]

gkerber · « **Reply #2 on:** June 17, 2003, 06:28:38 pm »

How do you really feel about it?

Doof · « **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2003, 06:57:16 pm »

I'm not sure, actually, now that you ask....

sraymond · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2003, 07:19:06 pm »

Yeah, what Doof said.

Kambriel · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2003, 07:45:42 pm »

Actually, I'm having some trouble with MC when I do a lot of typing and mouseclicks... it seems that MC is already too sensitive to mouse and keyboard! If we do more mouse monitoring, I can see trouble while working in windows of programs that are on top of but not covering MC. If we're using the mouse and stray over the edge of the window, will MC come to the front? Will it mess with the focus of the program we're using? Will it increase the CPU useage?

So, useful as it SOUNDS, my own feeling on this is that shifting foces with mouse position would end up being more an annoyance than a help.

xen-uno · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2003, 07:53:50 pm »

I'm there! Every version of MJ/MC I've used has had this deficiency. Now that MC has several "child" windows on screen, it becomes a much greater issue. So if there's any room left on the bandwagon...let me aboard.

10^-27

xen-uno · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2003, 08:00:11 pm »

Kam > If we're using the mouse and stray over the edge of the window, will MC come to the front? Will it mess with the focus of the program we're using?

No & No

MS Office apps have this "auto focus" ability and they don't display abhorent behavior. The scroll only works (if coded right) on the application that has focus. Focus shifts only happen if you use the wheel like a 3rd button.

10^-27

rocketsauce · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2003, 08:21:50 pm »

I have the thumb button on my mouse set to maximize the foreground window. MC seems to ignore this.

I'm also for the auto-focus for scrolling of the panes on mouseover.

Rob

Marko · « **Reply #9 on:** June 18, 2003, 12:14:09 am »

Count my vote for this one. I've been grumbling off and on about this since I started using MC9.

It's a skinning thing I think, because in the releases that allowed it, if skinning was disabled, the scroll-wheel behaved as expected. I am so used to it working this way I thought it was a default behaviour for windows apps, and to this day, I still expect it to happen and find it irksome that I'm forced to click to activate the window only after I realize that somewhere out of my focus is scrolling instead.

(Untill we (hopefully) get this, if you want to scroll, but don't want a file selected, give the scroll bar a little jog using either it's top or bottom button, then the wheel will work in the expected pane.)

-marko

Ingo · « **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2003, 12:52:47 am »

No, please don't do it. It would make keyboard navigation completely unusable....

(having a "scroll pane under mouse when using the wheel" is something different. and desireable....)

Ingo

Marko · « **Reply #11 on:** June 18, 2003, 01:28:48 am »

Quote

....

(having a "scroll pane under mouse when using the wheel" is something different. and desireable....)

Ingo

That is what I thought gkerber meant. That is what I voted for.
Same for everyone I hope?
gkerber?

-marko

NoCodeUK · « **Reply #12 on:** June 18, 2003, 02:47:02 am »

I am for this. X Mouse style activation. AFAIK it does not affect any other apps or cause any awkaward behaviour. I have used this before in various programs. It does not actually affect the application focus it just sorts out which control has the focus within the app.

Adam

gkerber · « **Reply #13 on:** June 18, 2003, 05:16:16 am »

Quote

That is what I thought gkerber meant. That is what I voted for.
Same for everyone I hope? gkerber?

-marko

I would like to be able to put my mouse pointer over any pane and have that pane be scrollable with the mouse wheel. I don't know if that is possible without moving focus to the window, which may make keyboard navigation more difficult since it may be hard to determine which window the keyboard keys will affect.

Since I NEVER use keyboard navigation, this would not affect me at all (assuming it's a result of my request).

But there are other users besides myself, so this discussion is good. I still vote for it..... I end up clicking on somewhere on the scroll bar to move focus, workable, but annoying to me.

gkerber · « **Reply #14 on:** June 18, 2003, 05:33:56 am »

Check out Netscape email. There is a TREE on the left side with folders of email messages. Another pane has a list of email messages for the tree selection and another pane has the contects of the selected email message. I can move the mouse to any of these panes and the scroll wheel moves the scroll bar, no clicking. I love it.

And the actual focus in the pane for keyboard use DOES NOT CHANGE WITH MOUSE MOVEMENT only with mouse clicking.

If focus is in one pane and I move the mouse to another pane and roll the scroll wheel, that pane moves, but the actual focus is still in the original pane since cursor keyboard movements still affect the original pane. It works so smooth and seamlessly that we don't really notice it, and we do notice when a program doesn't work this way.

I now cast TWO votes for this. The feature does not have to affect keyboard navigation, it works in Netscape.

NoCodeUK · « **Reply #15 on:** June 18, 2003, 05:43:22 am »

You are completely correct. My vote to for Netscape Mail style pane scrolling. hey its even open source so its already been coded

Adam

DocLotus · « **Reply #16 on:** June 18, 2003, 06:01:00 am »

Don't know what to say about this issue as I am still having second thoughts about the whole right window thing.

* Seems to me that 9.1 requires way too much mouse movement for something that was fairly simple before.

* Still can't get my head around the new right window. Am soooo used to the left pain Explorer type window that this sees totally non-standard & an excess of mouse. movement.

Any thoughts ?

NoCodeUK · « **Reply #17 on:** June 18, 2003, 06:08:47 am »

Doc see my post in another thread. The problem with the tree is that it s not dynamic. It is fine for browsing music, it is horrible for browsing Images. The panes allows us to do much more complex dynamic searches. You can find all images that have Jeff and Fred in between Feb 2000 and May 2002 taken in France and including the keywords fish. Can this be done easily with a tree?

Adam

DocLotus · « **Reply #18 on:** June 18, 2003, 06:31:04 am »

I agree.

That's why I use ACDSee 5.01 for ALL my images except Album cover Art.

I seldom use MC for images as it is sooo inmature with images at this point.

gkerber · « **Reply #19 on:** June 18, 2003, 06:35:04 am »

Quote

Doc see my post in another thread. The problem with the tree is that it s not dynamic. It is fine for browsing music, it is horrible for browsing Images. The panes allows us to do much more complex dynamic searches. You can find all images that have Jeff and Fred in between Feb 2000 and May 2002 taken in France and including the keywords fish. Can this be done easily with a tree?Adam

I think this is the crux of the discussion. The tree works best for the way some users use the program, and for others that want super selection methodogy, the new panes work better. Finding a balance is going to be difficult.

For non-complex dynamic searches, the new panes are more difficult and take more mouse clicking.

Will all that power really be used by the majority of the users?

Never present a power-user option in such a way that normal users must learn all about it in order to know they don't need to use it.

I'm a quote collector....

NoCodeUK · « **Reply #20 on:** June 18, 2003, 06:42:51 am »

I think if auto focus scrolling is introduced there will be no more clicking than there was with the tree, possibly less. For a non complex album search with the tree say Metallica - Load, I clicked my Artist Album view scheme to open it, I scrolled to Metallica, I cliked Metallica to open it, I dbl clicked on Load.
In the panes view currently I click on the artist panes scroll bar, scroll down to Metallica in the Artists column then click Metallica. The Albums field updates, I click Load. This is actually less mouse work.
Add in the auto scroll you remove the first click, so it becomes, hover over artists and wheel scroll to Metallica, click Metallica, click Load.
I am not trying to force my opinion here just showing that the panes can be used easily for simple searches too.

Adam

gkerber · « **Reply #21 on:** June 18, 2003, 06:56:17 am »

Yes, it might take some of the same keystrokes and mouse clicks, you are right.

I think one of my main problems with the panes is the huge loss of screen real estate on the right side, way less space to view tracks.

And the Unplugged issue bugs me.

Doof · « **Reply #22 on:** June 18, 2003, 07:24:14 am »

The Unplugged issue is behaving the exact same way as it did in the tree. You just aren't realizing it.

You have a Genre/Artist/Album View Scheme. But you're not specifying a Genre or an Artist. In effect, you are using only an Album View Scheme. By not specifying a genre or artist, you're asking MC to "show me all of my albums".

Go and load your library up in 9.0. Then create an Album view scheme. Tell me how many "Unplugged"'s you have listed.

What you're encountering is the power of the panes. Panepower... hey, that's kind of cool.

Anyway... the panes allow you to create a view scheme of Genre/Artist/Album and in effect, you also get :

Genre
Artist
Album
Genre/Artist
Genre/Album
Artist/Album

along with it. For that one entry in your tree, you now have 7 view schemes. Make it Year/Genre/Artist/Album and you also get:

Year
Genre
Artist
Album
Year/Genre
Year/Artist
Year/Album
Year/Genre/Artist
Year/Genre/Album
Year/Artist/Album
Genre/Artist
Genre/Album
Artist/Album

And maybe even some I forgot.

But you get the picture. You can dynamically decide to leave Genre out of a view scheme as your using it, by simply leaving it set to <all>. Or you can use Genre and Album and skip artist.

gkerber · « **Reply #23 on:** June 18, 2003, 09:16:11 am »

>The Unplugged issue is behaving the exact same way as it did in the tree. You just aren't realizing it.

>You have a Genre/Artist/Album View Scheme. But you're not specifying a Genre or an Artist. In effect, you are using only an Album View Scheme. By not specifying a genre or artist, you're asking MC to "show me all of my albums".

>Go and load your library up in 9.0. Then create an Album view scheme. Tell me how many "Unplugged"'s you have listed.

Very Interesting! I've never had an Album only view before, but I see that this example and my panes example show the same behaviour.

-----------------------------------------

[link]http://www.users.qwest.net/~kerbergeorge/unplugged.jpg[/link]

In my Unplugged PANES example, the view was

Genre-All - user field semicolon delimited
Artist -- grouped
Artist -- not grouped
Album

Unplugged was selected in the Genre-All pane, all other panes were <all>

Bryan Adams showed up in the Artist pane - BUT I HAVE NO ALBUM BY BRYAN ADAMS CALLED UNPLUGGED. I do have a track by Bryan Adams with "Unplugged" set as one of the Genre-All semicolon delmiited fields.

So the panes show any entry where "Unplugged" was listed in the Genre-All delimited field. - makes sense

Why this is all happening all makes sense now, thanks for the comparisons to the tree.

Now I have to digest what it all means in terms of actually using it. Must think, head hurts...

Empyrean · « **Reply #24 on:** June 18, 2003, 09:19:20 am »

This is something I would definitely like to see. I can't get my scroll mouse to work in any of the panes.

Kambriel · « **Reply #25 on:** June 18, 2003, 09:36:02 am »

I misunderstood... I was thinking people were asking for the focus in the panes to follow the mouse, like it does in this program here. (Get your mouse out of the way, and you're likely to be typing in the Subject field instead of the Messge field... I HATE that!)

But SOME of my arguments hold, like will the program have to do extra processing to see if the mouse is over a window? Even if the focus doesn't change until you use the mouse wheel (and that WOULD be a good feature, now I know what I'm talkin about..

) the program would still have to see that the mouse is over the window pane. How will this affect performance, or will it?

Hmmm, I may have answered my own question... the program has to know where the mouse is when you push a mouse button, so doing the same thing for the scroll wheel probably wouldn't affect performance any.

Okay, I'm for it!

NoCodeUK · « **Reply #26 on:** June 18, 2003, 09:41:43 am »

Kam, firstly Netscape Mail does this without any performance issues so shouldn't be a problem. Secondly, Windows programs are event driven so things happen when something is done ie clicked or scrolled so aghain this should not affect performance as all windows functions work in excatly the same way

Adam

Kambriel · « **Reply #27 on:** June 18, 2003, 09:57:21 am »

That's what I realized when I proofread my entry, NoCode... it seems to be the obvious things that always come to me last.

jam · « **Reply #28 on:** June 18, 2003, 11:13:41 am »

I agree with Ingo. It should be possible to handle only mouse wheel event without changing focus. My vote to for Netscape Mail style pane scrolling.

Doc, I have the same problem you have. But, I want to keep this thread for only scrolling/auto-focus issues, so don't say anything more than this.

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Author Topic: Auto Focus in the Panes (Read 5686 times)

gkerber

gkerber

sraymond

Marko

Marko

gkerber

gkerber

gkerber

gkerber

gkerber