Topic: I'm beginning to hate the Internet (Read 9347 times)

JimH · « **on:** March 08, 2018, 01:15:32 pm »

We've always been able to let our customers know when we had something new, but now it's getting really hard.

Recently, when we've sent a newsletter, Microsoft has decided we're sending junk/spam. First they shut down any of our e-mail to anyone at microsoft.com, msn.com, outlook.com, and live.com. They also didn't tell us. We were lucky enough to notice.

When we asked them why they were blocking us, they said "we'll check". After a few days, the mail started to flow again, but ever so slowly. Bob went back and forth with them, but the best we could get was 5,000 per day. At that rate, the pre-order sale would be over long before our Microsoft mail customers received the e-mail that announced it.

I just sent a polite request to the Microsoft legal department. Maybe someone will consider it.

In the meantime, while we wait, we decided we have to have a Plan B.

I asked Matt if we could use the program to deliver a message. After poking around our Update Channels mechanism, he realized that a decade or so ago we had built that capability into the mechanism. So now, if you run Check for Updates with an older version of MC, all the way back to MC18, you will see an Action Window message that says, "A newer version is available at a special pre-order price." and a More Information button that lands you on the Upgrade Help topic on the forum.

I'm still a little steamed that things that should work often don't any more. We can't rely on email. We can't rely on news. We can't trust our government. Our government has broken down. Net neutrality.

And now Microsoft.

Ugh.

swiv3d · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2018, 01:31:38 pm »

I trust that when mc23 version 103 becomes available the update channel will show it. Having already paid for an MC 24 pre-order it is a bit annoying to keep being told that it is available, but I can understand the problems you are having. I do enjoy using JRiver!

JimH · « **Reply #2 on:** March 08, 2018, 01:39:31 pm »

You will receive an e-mail. You could also check the MC24 board here from time to time.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #3 on:** March 08, 2018, 01:54:28 pm »

Google/Gmail are starting to become just as unreliable when it comes to sending legit emails to the spam folder, I've noticed lately.

I've about decided to jump to ProtonMail, which I've heard nothing but good things about.

RD James · « **Reply #4 on:** March 08, 2018, 01:55:09 pm »

Though you may be trying to send out 10,000+ legitimate emails at once, I'm sure there are just as many people trying to do the same thing with spam emails.
It's very rare these days that I receive any newsletters which are sent directly from the company themselves.
That's why services like MailChimp have risen in popularity, because - as I understand it - they're basically white-listed as known-good senders.

Having messaging built into the updater seems like a good idea.

swiv3d · « **Reply #5 on:** March 08, 2018, 02:12:20 pm »

Microsoft's actions are probably the result of the inability of users of their mail app to set up junk filters, so they are having to do it instead, and like most microsoft activity it doesn't quite work properly. A bit like the network non-display of computers on a home network, which has been broken for ages now and will probably never work again.

Hendrik · « **Reply #6 on:** March 08, 2018, 04:42:35 pm »

I think what RD James touched on is a big part of it. How does Microsoft (or anyone else, they are not the first to block our mailings) know you're not sending spam in bulk?
Thats also the reason very few companies send out their own bulk mailings anymore - even Microsoft doesn't, they use a service called "autopilot", and there is dozens of well known services like that around.

Mail has become a complex topic, between all the spam, phishing and attempted fraud, its hard to convince any mail provider that you're to be trusted. Thats why so many bulk mail services (or "Mail Marketing" how they call themself) emerged, they have the experience and more importantly the contacts to the big providers to get the mail through safely. Maybe something to consider. Often its not even that expensive, since they live on large volume.

Scobie · « **Reply #7 on:** March 08, 2018, 05:00:53 pm »

What about a Twitter feed or similar in the meantime?

JimH · « **Reply #8 on:** March 08, 2018, 05:41:06 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on March 08, 2018, 04:42:35 pm

I think what RD James touched on is a big part of it. How does Microsoft (or anyone else, they are not the first to block our mailings) know you're not sending spam in bulk?

They _say_ they do it based on reputation. We've used their tools to see what they think and apparently the percent of people who think it's spam is less then 1/10 of one percent. Very good, I think.

If anyone is going to block legitimate e-mail, I think it's up to them to devise a system and administer it correctly. Otherwise, one of the most important tools of the Internet is going to crumble.

Quote

Thats also the reason very few companies send out their own bulk mailings anymore - even Microsoft doesn't, they use a service called "autopilot", and there is dozens of well known services like that around.

I didn't get the memo.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #9 on:** March 08, 2018, 05:42:33 pm »

Quote from: Scobie on March 08, 2018, 05:00:53 pm

What about a Twitter feed or similar in the meantime?

Nooooo!!!!!

Jim, get JRiver whitelisted with the majors, or start using an email service as Hendrik suggests. It is about the only way, other than breaking down the mail list so that no domain receives more than a few hundred emails at a time. But even then, heuristics will catch you out eventually. It could even be your outbound provider blocking some of them, depending on your setup.

The message via MC is a good idea though... if users actually check for updates, or haven't turned off the automatic check.

BTW, there was at least one user complaining earlier this week about the level of SPAM emails he was receiving from JRiver. I mean, it must have been at least two, or three in the last few weeks! I held my tongue.

Hendrik · « **Reply #10 on:** March 08, 2018, 05:44:58 pm »

Quote from: JimH on March 08, 2018, 05:41:06 pm

I didn't get the memo.

The Internet evolves without telling its users, unfortunately.

JimH · « **Reply #11 on:** March 08, 2018, 05:54:10 pm »

Quote from: Hendrik on March 08, 2018, 05:44:58 pm

The Internet evolves without telling its users, unfortunately.

JimH · « **Reply #12 on:** March 09, 2018, 07:09:01 pm »

Microsoft completely blocked us today.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #13 on:** March 09, 2018, 08:41:52 pm »

They are really helpful, aren't they?

I'm just having another go at fixing the Network Neighbourhood Computer Browsing situation they created by turning off SMBv1 and the hence Master Browser service. You would think, when they do something like that which has such a big impact on almost all users, that they would write up a bulletin of some sort saying, "We did this. Here is why. Here is the alternative and how to set it up", and then make sure that bulletin was distributed and seen everywhere. Nope. After a huge amount of surfing and searching through copious amounts of dross, I finally found something that appears to have been written well after they created the problem, last updated 5 Feb 2018. Now just waiting for my HTPC to finish some work so that I can test their "alternative". I have very little confidence it will work.

Microsoft: One step away from self-immolation... all in the name of keeping us safe. Or maybe profits.

Goatshade · « **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2018, 09:53:13 am »

For what it's worth, I think the MC program message is a great idea. It sucks that email cannot be relied upon any more, but one less service dropping messages in my inbox is kinda nice—not that I was ever bothered by JRiver mail in particular.

millst · « **Reply #15 on:** March 10, 2018, 11:08:01 am »

Yep, it's unfortunate that it only takes a few greedy people to wreck things for the rest of us. Even more unfortunate that the Internet is now full of them.

Whitelisting isn't really a solution to spam. It fails and everybody gets spammed when a whitelisted site is hacked. MS risks losing more subscribers (and ad $) in that case as opposed to a few annoyed MC users not getting their update notice.

The protocol that network neighborhood is built on is hopelessly insecure as it was designed before the network was hostile. Again, despite all the angst on the Internet, I doubt MS is losing any significant market share to Linux/Apple over it. Just create a shortcut or map a network drive.

-tm

RoderickGI · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2018, 03:14:23 pm »

Actually, I have Network Neighbourhood back, without turning SMBv1 back on. In fact, I applaud Microsoft for turning off SMBv1, but why couldn't they also turn on the services that replace it, and ensure all other settings were right for it to work? Or at least tell users in an obvious way how to get network browsing back? The Microsoft article I found was an incomplete procedure for restoring network browsing.

PS: A shortcut still wouldn't have worked, as services weren't turned on, and I can't map a drive letter to every network resource I have. Particularly when I haven't discovered them yet!

PPS: In case anyone else was wondering, and because I was asked, this is how I fixed Network Browsing on my LAN: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114852.0.html

tij · « **Reply #17 on:** March 11, 2018, 03:20:08 pm »

i will update when its full price ... so you guys get more money

fitbrit · « **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2018, 01:15:59 am »

This thread makes me want to post a link to my 22+ reasons why I hate the Internet. Number 15 is SHOCKING!

RoderickGI · « **Reply #19 on:** March 12, 2018, 01:23:46 am »

Very clever Fitbrit.

stanzani · « **Reply #20 on:** March 12, 2018, 08:10:09 am »

I hate microsoft rather than Internet. probably the lobbies the government if it is allowed to them such a shame.
I hope google is a safer place (I have gmail, cross my fingers)

BTW, messaging works fine and is a gret idea

Good luck for legally pursuing microsoft and let us know

ciao from italy

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #21 on:** March 12, 2018, 09:21:23 am »

Google a safer place? If you value your privacy and personal data, they're certainly not a safer place. Google, Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, etc. All those are the big data companies that collect and likely sells user data to third-parties for "marketing purposes". If anything, the personal data those companies possess about individuals would likely scare the pants off you.

*takes tin foil hat off*

JimH · « **Reply #22 on:** March 12, 2018, 09:37:19 am »

Privacy is gone. No such thing any longer.

JimH · « **Reply #23 on:** March 15, 2018, 12:31:46 pm »

I've moved a post to the Upgrade Questions thread.

fitbrit · « **Reply #24 on:** March 15, 2018, 02:18:24 pm »

Quote from: Awesome Donkey on March 12, 2018, 09:21:23 am

Google a safer place? If you value your privacy and personal data, they're certainly not a safer place. Google, Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, etc. All those are the big data companies that collect and likely sells user data to third-parties for "marketing purposes". If anything, the personal data those companies possess about individuals would likely scare the pants off you.

*takes tin foil hat off*

I recently had to do an analysis of the role of FB "filter bubble" in the US 2016 Presidential Election. I came up with the model attached.

The Computer Audiophile · « **Reply #25 on:** March 19, 2018, 03:05:40 pm »

Hey Jim - Let me know if you want to grab lunch. I've been down this road and tried many things over the years. What we're doing now at CA and Superphonica seems to be working but it isn't free. Using our own sever that follows all SPF, DKIM, DMARC, etc... just didn't work. Perhaps the big spam houses are behind this by offering services to make sure your email gets through and blocking those who don't pay.

astromo · « **Reply #26 on:** April 10, 2018, 06:21:15 am »

Allow on the uptake.

Now I know why I'm getting the nag screen.

These shortlisted mail out companies sound like they've got a collusive sweet heart deal going on. Makes me wonder whether they're subsidiaries of M$ or $oo$le.

Don't feed them. They'll just get fatter.

Captor · « **Reply #27 on:** April 30, 2018, 10:46:47 am »

How long do I need to see this notification about a new version if I not want to buy it? Will it be until I buy or?
It would be nice if i can turn this off after deciding that I not want to buy it..

RD James · « **Reply #28 on:** April 30, 2018, 11:36:17 am »

Quote from: Captor on April 30, 2018, 10:46:47 am

How long do I need to see this notification about a new version if I not want to buy it? Will it be until I buy or?
It would be nice if i can turn this off after deciding that I not want to buy it..

Disable auto-update since MC23 development is finished?

sandrei · « **Reply #29 on:** April 30, 2018, 08:17:50 pm »

After reading your post I looked in my Outlook "Junk folder" and I was surprised to find there a lot of messages marked as spam by Norton Antivirus spam filter, including from you.
What is extremely concerning is that there are a lot of messages from legitimate senders like receipts from Apple Store, and the messages from real spammers and scammers are not filtered. Sometime I start to ask myself if these guys don't have a different agenda than they actually declare. A spam filter that filters legitimate messages and lets through the real spam is either useless or denotes that the program promotes a hidden agenda.

JimH · « **Reply #30 on:** May 01, 2018, 06:38:52 am »

Yes. It wouldn't be surprising to find out sometime in the future that we've been unintentionally hosting malicious software disguised as "security" software.

Kaspersky, for example:
https://www.tomsguide.com/us/is-kaspersky-safe,news-25983.html

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/13/us-government-bans-kaspersky-lab-russian-spying

michael123 · « **Reply #31 on:** May 01, 2018, 08:49:13 am »

Quote from: JimH on May 01, 2018, 06:38:52 am

Yes. It wouldn't be surprising to find out sometime in the future that we've been unintentionally hosting malicious software disguised as "security" software.

Kaspersky, for example:
https://www.tomsguide.com/us/is-kaspersky-safe,news-25983.html

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/13/us-government-bans-kaspersky-lab-russian-spying

No more than Google, Microsoft, Facebook do for US gov.

Captor · « **Reply #32 on:** May 06, 2018, 11:43:16 am »

Quote from: RD James on April 30, 2018, 11:36:17 am

Disable auto-update since MC23 development is finished?

RD James > Thank you very much. I really hope the notification stops then after the development is finished...

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Author Topic: I'm beginning to hate the Internet (Read 9347 times)

swiv3d

swiv3d