Topic: Using 2 STBs (Read 2509 times)

Len_Lekx · « **on:** April 25, 2018, 01:35:50 pm »

I have some questions regarding using MP24 as a TV server with two set-top boxes...

My current setup uses a digital-cable box and an international satellite-receiver box, and I'd like to incorporate them into my LiveTV section.

The questions:

1) Do both STBs have to be active (power-on) in order to be able to switch channels? Or can MC turn on the proper box when it tries to switch to the channel? (I'm assuming it will already use the correct capture device...)
2) Can the MC skin have separate sections for watching each STB? (i.e. a selection for 'Watch CableTV' and 'Watch SatelliteTV' or something similar...)
3) Can I download separate EPGs for each box? Can I keep each guide separate?

I'm still trying to figure this stuff out, so bear with me if I've asked something that's been gone over before...

RoderickGI · « **Reply #1 on:** April 25, 2018, 07:00:17 pm »

I don't use any external boxes, but these are my best understanding.

1) Yes, but with options.
But you may be able to blast a power-on command before each channel change command. But that would be a bit complex and I'm not sure it would work reliably. You would be better to look into devices that are able to turn on other electrical devices when a PC becomes active. I believe that there are powerboards now that can power one or more outlets all the time, for the PC, and have a USB input to trigger turning on additional outlets. That way, when the PC is on, the STBs are on.

You will need to do this if you wish to record programs from the STBs, and MC will need to wake the PC (if you are letting it sleep of course). When the PC wakes you would set it up to turn on the STB outlets. This would require a little experimentation, as the STB needs to be awake and functional before MC sends the channel change command to change to the channel that needs to be recorded. So there could be a timing issue. Probably solvable.

Also, most people leave their STBs in standby mode. Whether a STB will fully power up and change channel from standby when it receives a channel change command is a function of the STB design.

2) Yes, if I understand what you mean.
You could set up separate areas in MC for watching each STB, in both Standard and Theatre Views, for example for 'Watch CableTV' and 'Watch SatelliteTV'. That would just require customisation of the menus and navigation pane using appropriate rules, which is a standard capability. As you used the term "Skin", I thought at first that you would want different colours and components for each STB. You won't get that. Also, when watching Live TV you would just select the appropriate channel using Channel Up/Down or the Channel Number on your remote. All channels are available using that process.

3) Yes and Yes.
You can import EPG data from as many sources as you want. You need to manage it properly if there is overlap between the sources. Some sources are built into MC, but any other that you want to use can be incorporated using the XMLTV import function. It can all be automated of course.
You can set up as many EPG Guides in MC as you want in Theatre View. It is done just like setting up menus, but the EPG View has a special layout to produce the typical Gantt Chart display used by EPGs.
Standard View has just one EPG "Guide", which is more a listing of all channels and programs they carry. However, you could set up views in Standard View to show separate sections of the EPG, if you wished. I can't think of a way to make those Views active though. They would be for viewing and searching only.

Ultimately though, for 2) and 3) above, MC works fine with all the channels from all sources presented together. There is no need to separate them. You will see that as you begin to learn MC.

While I am here, I do suggest that you spend some time reading the Wiki if you haven't already. There is a lot of information there.
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Getting_Started
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Category:Frequently_Asked_Questions
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Media_Center
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Main_Page

Len_Lekx · « **Reply #2 on:** April 26, 2018, 06:04:39 am »

Quote from: RoderickGI on April 25, 2018, 07:00:17 pm

Also, most people leave their STBs in standby mode. Whether a STB will fully power up and change channel from standby when it receives a channel change command is a function of the STB design.

Yeah - I leave my boxes in standby mode... but they don't come out of standby with channel-change commands, they require a 'PowerOn' command first.

Quote

MC works fine with all the channels from all sources presented together. There is no need to separate them.

Hence my question about requiring both boxes to be active at the same time. The way my system is set up now, I can't switch between both boxes that easily - I press 'Watch CableTV' on my Logitech remote, and it takes the box out of standby. If I want to watch something from my satellite receiver - I press 'Watch SatelliteTV' which puts the cable box into standby, takes the satellite receiver out of standby, and switches the video input accordingly. I'm guessing that would be overly-complicated to program into MC.

Clearly, I've got some studying to do...

Yaobing · « **Reply #3 on:** April 26, 2018, 08:11:48 am »

Powering on an STB is a difficult problem to solve. You can program MC to fire an IR code, but most codes for power on actually toggle power on or off. There is no way for MC to know which state an STB is in (on or off). You may end up turning an STB off instead of turning it on as intended. The easiest way is to keep both STBs on all the time.

Turning one STB off while using the other is fine if all you do is to watch a channel live. Most people use MC TV to record shows, and often record different shows simultaneously using multiple tuners/STBs. You must allow both STB to be ready to act any time.

JimH · « **Reply #4 on:** April 26, 2018, 09:00:21 am »

If you're actually turning power off and on, Playpower might work:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=111659.0

Len_Lekx · « **Reply #5 on:** April 26, 2018, 01:33:22 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on April 26, 2018, 08:11:48 am

Powering on an STB is a difficult problem to solve. You can program MC to fire an IR code, but most codes for power on actually toggle power on or off. There is no way for MC to know which state an STB is in (on or off). You may end up turning an STB off instead of turning it on as intended. The easiest way is to keep both STBs on all the time.

That's kinda what I thought. So - when I want to watch LiveTV, I can just blast the power-on (power-toggle, whatever...) command for both boxes in sequence. Am I correct in assuming that I can also program MC to do the opposite - blast the command to put the boxes back into standby when I close the program? Could I do something similar when recording - blast on the box to record, blast the channel number to record, and blast off when done?

(I'm just reluctant to have both boxes on when I'm not actively using them...

)

Quote from: JimH on April 26, 2018, 09:00:21 am

If you're actually turning power off and on,

Actually, I'm not. Just taking them in and out of standby mode.

This is only temporary anyway - until I can figure out...

a) which IPTV service provides me with the channels I prefer watching, and
b) whether I can get my condo's Lobby Watch channel without the digital box.

Yaobing · « **Reply #6 on:** April 26, 2018, 02:27:00 pm »

Quote from: Len_Lekx on April 26, 2018, 01:33:22 pm

Am I correct in assuming that I can also program MC to do the opposite - blast the command to put the boxes back into standby when I close the program?

I can not answer that. Someone else may have an answer.

Quote

Could I do something similar when recording - blast on the box to record, blast the channel number to record, and blast off when done?

TV Recording in MC currently does not have power-on blast built into it when recording starts or stops.

PlayPower probably is still the best hope.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #7 on:** April 26, 2018, 04:02:42 pm »

Having both STBs turned on at any time that the PC is turned on wouldn't be an issue though, would it? Which is why I mentioned power boards which could manage that for you. JRiver PowerPlay is also an option, and I think it works with such power boards?

Also, while MCE Remotes only have a Power Toggle button, at least on my Logitech emulation version of an MCE Remote I also have access to Power On and Power Off IR commands. You may find that your STBs have the same sort of extended commands. Some research required.

JohnT · « **Reply #8 on:** April 27, 2018, 08:46:38 am »

As RoderickGI stated, if your research turns up discrete "power on" and "power off" IR codes for your STB's, you could use MC's PlayPower to create a "video only" power up command sequence for the zone you watch/record TV on. However there's no facility to power them down when you finish watching/recording.

It gets pretty complicated if you only have the power toggle IR command available, then PlayPower would have to sense if the STB is on or off so it knows whether to send a toggle IR code or not. To sense the on/off state of the STB would require our Engen server to be running and the STB's to be plugged into Z-Wave outlets with watt meters on them. Like I said, kind of complicated.

Len_Lekx · « **Reply #9 on:** May 28, 2018, 01:57:23 pm »

Well... according the my Logitech remote, each unit has a discrete 'PowerOn' and 'PowerOff' command - they just aren't used by the remotes provided with the boxes. What I think I may do is just blast a 'PowerOn' command to each when I turn on the computer, and just leave them on all the time. I'll put them on UPS power so I don't lose the setting due to blackouts. I've got some time to play...

Turns out that my cable provider encrypts the signal for my Lobby Watch channel, so I'm stuck with that box.

(Additional info...)

Turns out that my cable box has an option to allow it to come out of standby with keys other than just the power button, so that will save a lot of trouble. The satellite box doesn't seem to have it, though.

Oh, well - one out of two isn't bad.

Len_Lekx · « **Reply #10 on:** June 05, 2018, 07:37:06 am »

After a bit of tweaking, (and changing from the 64-bit version to the 32-bit because the 64-bit one wouldn't work with USB-UIRT...

) I have one STB working. My cable box is now connected to my Hauppauge Colossus 2 card, and sending picture and sound.

One oddity I noticed was a significant delay between video and sound when using the optical (SPDIF) input for digital audio - about a half-second delay between the on-screen speech and the actual words. I'm using the analog inputs now, without the delay, but it got me wondering if this is an issue with JRiver or the Hauppauge card...

Thoughts...?

[Edit] Using the capture software supplied by Hauppauge, there is no delay between video and audio. I'm going to try swapping capture cards later - maybe it's driver related...? I'm still having trouble getting the two EPG downloads to coordinate - mc2xml doesn't work at all, zap2xml seems to work for both... but I haven't figured out how to keep them separate - maybe because I don't know how to set it up properly.

Yaobing · « **Reply #11 on:** June 13, 2018, 10:28:34 pm »

Re: auido-video sync. Do you use time-shifting? Video capture/STB devices have a separate setting "Start analog devices in time-shifting mode". If you have not been using time-shifting, try using it. It usually gives you better AV sync.

Re: EPG. How does mc2xml not work? Does it give you a list of line-ups for your locaction?

I am not very familiar with zap2xml, but I think you will need to provide it with the right set of parameters in order to download the right set of data for each line-up.

Len_Lekx · « **Reply #12 on:** June 14, 2018, 06:20:31 am »

Quote from: Yaobing on June 13, 2018, 10:28:34 pm

Re: auido-video sync. Do you use time-shifting? Video capture/STB devices have a separate setting "Start analog devices in time-shifting mode". If you have not been using time-shifting, try using it. It usually gives you better AV sync.

I did not know that.

Where would I find that setting?

Quote

Re: EPG. How does mc2xml not work? Does it give you a list of line-ups for your locaction?

It gives me the line-ups for my location, but then it keeps looping back to the first pop-up window. (I don't have a screen-shot, but the attached image is as far as I can get...)

Quote

I am not very familiar with zap2xml, but I think you will need to provide it with the right set of parameters in order to download the right set of data for each line-up.

The parameters I use allow me to download the data fine - it's integrating them that's the issue. I download and configure one set, but lose the configurations when I download the second set. Maybe I need to play with it a bit more - I could be doing something wrong, and not even realize it...

RoderickGI · « **Reply #13 on:** June 14, 2018, 06:42:09 am »

Quote from: Len_Lekx on June 14, 2018, 06:20:31 am

I did not know that. Where would I find that setting?

There is a search box at the bottom of the Options dialogue. Search for "analog" and you will find the setting.

You appear to be using a very old version of mc2xml. The version built into MC is 1.4, and the current Donationware version is 1.6. So I assume you aren't running the version built into MC, but are running mc2xml externally, generating an XMLTV file, and then importing it into MC. Correct?

I recommend using this page for information on mc2xml: http://mc2xml.awardspace.info/ because it doesn't seem to have the problems other pages have, including being highlighted as risky and containing security threats.

Read that page carefully, and search the forums for some excellent discussions on mc2xml.

Yaobing · « **Reply #14 on:** June 14, 2018, 08:41:15 am »

Quote from: Len_Lekx on June 14, 2018, 06:20:31 am

(I don't have a screen-shot, but the attached image is as far as I can get...)

So, perhaps it is only the image that is old, not the actual version used? MC has an internal version of mc2xml, which is version 1.4. In any case make sure the "Service" selection is "Microsoft", not "Microsoft Legacy". The latter is totally dysfunctional.

Yaobing · « **Reply #15 on:** June 14, 2018, 09:11:02 am »

Quote from: Len_Lekx on June 14, 2018, 06:20:31 am

The parameters I use allow me to download the data fine - it's integrating them that's the issue. I download and configure one set, but lose the configurations when I download the second set. Maybe I need to play with it a bit more - I could be doing something wrong, and not even realize it...

Did you setup EPG in each of the hardware profiles? In your case you need to have a "Cable STB" profile, and a "Satellite STB" profile.

In MC Standard view, right-click "Television" on the tree in the left panel, and choose "Load Program Guide...". You should get something like this:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/File:Load_program_guide_MC23.png

Do you see multiple XMLTV modes listed there? And are they correctly associated with your Cable and Satellite profiles?

Len_Lekx · « **Reply #16 on:** June 15, 2018, 12:05:37 pm »

Quote from: RoderickGI on June 14, 2018, 06:42:09 am

You appear to be using a very old version of mc2xml. The version built into MC is 1.4, and the current Donationware version is 1.6. So I assume you aren't running the version built into MC, but are running mc2xml externally, generating an XMLTV file, and then importing it into MC. Correct?

I thought I was using a version that was installed with MC24... I'll check again.

Quote from: Yaobing

So, perhaps it is only the image that is old,

Correct - it's just an image I grabbed, because my HTPC isn't plugged in at the moment.

Quote

Did you setup EPG in each of the hardware profiles? In your case you need to have a "Cable STB" profile, and a "Satellite STB" profile.

Yes, that's the way I set it up. If memory serves, the image you attached is what I'm getting - but the channels are 'mixed' in the actual EPG listing.

I'll do some more setup and testing next week (busy this weekend with father's 90th birthday celebration...) and get some screenshots.

(Quick follow-up) I just downloaded the newest version of mc2xml (1.6) and it runs well on the computer I downloaded it to - but the 'microsoft' option is ghosted. It grabbed the data under 'microsoft legacy' though.

Yaobing · « **Reply #17 on:** June 15, 2018, 04:30:18 pm »

Quote from: Len_Lekx on June 15, 2018, 12:05:37 pm

(Quick follow-up) I just downloaded the newest version of mc2xml (1.6) and it runs well on the computer I downloaded it to - but the 'microsoft' option is ghosted. It grabbed the data under 'microsoft legacy' though.

Microsoft Legacy most likely is not going to help. I know it is dead for USA. Even if it appears to work, you have to check that it actually downloaded new data (i.e. data for today and for the next couple of weeks).

The free download of mc2xml does not include "Microsoft" (it is disabled). You have to donate to the developer in order to enable the new "Microsoft" option. The version MC uses does include "Microsoft".

Len_Lekx · « **Reply #18 on:** June 16, 2018, 06:33:02 am »

Quote from: Yaobing on June 15, 2018, 04:30:18 pm

Microsoft Legacy most likely is not going to help. I know it is dead for USA. Even if it appears to work, you have to check that it actually downloaded new data (i.e. data for today and for the next couple of weeks).

That's a pain...

And that's kinda why I chose to use zap2xml instead - I was downloading the listings for one STB from Zap2it.com, and the other from TVGuide.com. Downloaded them into separate files, and then imported to MC's database. My only issue is that I can't see which channel is associated with which STB. It's not a big deal, though - I can probably get by without it.

Quote

The free download of mc2xml does not include "Microsoft" (it is disabled). You have to donate to the developer in order to enable the new "Microsoft" option. The version MC uses does include "Microsoft".

That implies that I may have to search for and remove all copies of mc2xml executables present on my system, and re-install - so I get the correct version. Not a big deal, just annoying.

Yaobing · « **Reply #19 on:** June 16, 2018, 10:38:23 am »

Quote from: Len_Lekx on June 16, 2018, 06:33:02 am

That implies that I may have to search for and remove all copies of mc2xml executables present on my system, and re-install - so I get the correct version. Not a big deal, just annoying.

No. MC uses its own copy of mc2xml. It does not use anything that was place on the computer by you in the past or in the future. So don't worry about that.

Len_Lekx · « **Reply #20 on:** June 17, 2018, 03:25:15 pm »

Built into the program? Okay. (Thinking about it - I may have gotten an error because I put a space in my Postal Code...)

Len_Lekx · « **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2018, 03:01:26 pm »

Quick update...

I couldn't get my second STB to work with my AverMedia capture card. Fortunately, I also had a Hauppauge WinDVR-2250 installed - the picture comes through on that one... albeit with some noise at the bottom of the image. I suspect that's an unavoidable artifact of the capture process.

One difficulty I'm experiencing is with changing the channels. I've set up my USB-UIRT with a splitter and two emitter-cables to control each box separately - and while I got the first box to work properly, I can't get the second one to work. I'm still tweaking the settings and the positioning of the emitter, so maybe I'll hit on the right combination eventually.

Does anyone here use a DirecTV D12 receiver box on their system with a USB-UIRT controlling it? If so, what settings did you use?

Time for another dumb question - does the 10-foot interface activate automatically when I start MC in Theater Mode? If I use EventGhost to start MC, do I have to disable EG until I exit MC?

Len_Lekx · « **Reply #22 on:** July 14, 2018, 10:39:22 am »

One of the issues I'm having with setting up the IR blasters is that I can't see whether the STB is reading the correct sequence.

My cable box has a console display that shows me every digit it receives. My satellite box does not, and the on-screen display is obscured by the MC setup windows. So I can't tell if the receiver is missing digits, or getting multiple digits.

I guess I'll have to move the setup window before I start setting up the box...

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Author Topic: Using 2 STBs (Read 2509 times)