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[jwk246]

Please clarify some items from:

Home Networking Examples wiki ( https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Home_Networking_Examples ):

In Example 3: Direct Playback from MC Library Server Clients (using Windows UNC Shares):

"When a MC Library Server Client connects to a MC Library Server it receives a full copy of the Library..."

Does this happen every time that the client connects to the server, or just the first time that the Library Server is added to the Client? **


" To allow MC Library Server clients direct accessto the files you will need to do a few things:

1. UNC Share: There are several ways of doing this...."

These instructions must be for Windows 10 only (supposition based on microsoft link provided in the sentence that followed)... they don't apply to Windows 7. These instructions are confusing because it makes it sound like creating a UNC share is something specific and different than just normal sharing of the location where the media files are located on the server to the network (at least in Windows 7, I don't know about Windows 10, I haven't used that). Based on the instructions, Windows 10 might make it 'easier' to determine the UNC address, but there are a number of ways to determine that in Windows 7 that are ever so slightly less easy than Windows 10, and it's really brain-dead simple to determine without any aids if you know what the server's computer name is and you know the drive and path to the media files... \\servername\drive\path or \\servername\share

All that really needs to be done is to share the media files on the network and they will automatically be available by their UNC share name, correct?

"2. Update Library Path to UNC Share. PLEASE - Make a BACKUP of you(r) library before attempting this (in case something goes wrong)..."

It's not explicitly stated which library is being edited to replace the original path with the UNC path... at first glance I thought it was the library copied to the client, but I think there are hints elsewhere that it might be the original copy that's on the library server that should be edited and that the library server may be updating the client's local copy of the server's library every time it connects (which is why I asked my earlier ** question), which could make sense because UNC connections are on-demand and non-persistent i.e. connected only when activity exists and disconnected when not active, vs. mapped network drives, which are persistent during each session and will stay connected regardless of whether being used or at idle until the session is explicitly disconnected or the client is powered down or rebooted (and will automatically re-connect at the next session with the proper settings). If the server library is the one that gets edited, then playing media from the server by the server would mean it's connecting to it's own media using the UNC address rather than the primative, local drive/path, and that any further additions to the server's library would have to be edited to replace their path with the UNC address before the client could see those new additions.

So, is my understanding of how JRiver's direct playback work correct?

Is the library on the server the one that get's edited?

[jmone]

A full copy of the Library is loaded by the Library Server Client every time it connects (eg when you run MC on the Client PC).   Once connected it also receives updates to the library on a regular basis.  Any time MC Library Server Clients starts afresh it will get a copy of the library from the MC Library Server again.  The copy that the Client is using is not persistent.

Yup, to get direct access using UNC Shares, all the MC instances (Server and Clients) need to be able to access the content using the same Path on the network, and that path is used when importing items into the library (eg in the field Filename)

If you are converting your Filename from local paths (eg D:\MyMovies) to UNC paths (eg \\MYPC\MyMovies) then you should do this once on the PC running MC as the Server (as it has the library that will be shared).

I personally only do changes on the PC running the MC Server but you can do it on Client instances as well (as long as the Library has not been loaded as Read Only).  All changes are made on the Library Server.

[jwk246]

8 incredibly enlightening sentences that greatly further my understanding of, and verify some of my uneducated guesses about how the server and clients interact with each other, and introduced new information that I hadn't even considered. Is there some other resource you can point me to that has a full explanation of the Direct Playback server-client operation in jRivers' archives that I missed? Because the only documentation I found was the wiki I mentioned, and it didn't come close to being a clear explanation (and I'm specifically referring to the Direct Playback section in example 3 of the wiki) and your response is already a huge improvement.

My server consists of 7x 6TB drives w/ an 8th drive planned. The information you provided about how the clients not only get a copy of the library from the server when JRiver starts up on the clients, but that the client library will be updated periodically between client startups as well, is huge; and I had thought that when I ripped new blu rays to the server I would have to manually update the new rip's path so the clients could access them, and it hadn't even occurred to me that I could directly rip to the UNC share address and avoid having to update the rip's path completely; and I'm thinking it might be possible to rip blu rays in a client machine with the appropriate UNC path to the server drive, and hide the server in a closet... does that sound feasible?

Thanks for clearing things up...

jk

[jmone]

Attached is a pic of the File Locations I use for ripping my Items straight the the UNC Share.  Once in the library it the "appears" in the clients library.  I do all my importing on the MC Server Machine (as this is my desktop with 60TB of HDD in a pool and has the ODDs).  My clients are all "thin" provisioned devices just running MC in TheaterView.  I've not tried ripping on one of these HTPC but I guess it should work if you have in Tools--> Options--> Media Network--> Authentication Checked with a Username and Password set (eg not the Read-only Authentication).....but you will have to try it and see unless someone else can advise.

[jwk246]

Thanks jmone, I appreciate your reply. 2 nights ago I changed about 12 of the paths for bluray titles on the server to UNC to make sure I was doing it correctly and and waited about an hour and then tried viewing from the client. I had strange responses and difficulty with changing the library and when trying to connect to one of my new titles it acted more like it was trying to connect via DLNA and was erratic and stuttering, and when I tried to connect via the shortcuts I made on the client to the UNC paths on the server they acted erratically some paths refusing to work at all, others working one time and a few minutes later not working. It was late so I went to bed.
The next day I gathered up all my notes, determined to get this working, and when I started troubleshooting, everything was already working exactly as it was supposed to. I had made no changes at all, so I'm not sure what happened the night before. I updated the rest of the 660 local paths to UNC paths on the server (using a separate preset for each drive made it very easy). I waited a while to see if the library would update on the client, but after about 20 minutes it had not, so I loaded the local library on the client and then re-loaded the server library on the client and the UNC paths showed up immediately and my entire bluray collection was available on the client. I then configured a second client on another computer, and that was a breeze. I still have to add my music files, then the downloaded youtubes and vimeos, but I need to clean up my folder hierarchy first for those last 2 items because it's kind of messy now.

So I still am not clear on the "automatic downloading of library changes" from the server... does that happen periodically throughout the day and if so how often does it happen, or is it once a day, or something else?

I think I'm off to a good start, and once the files on the server are squared away, connecting a client is a piece of cake. Compared to DLNA, the direct connection is immediate, no lag, just like sitting at the server.

Thanks for taking the time to get me on track with this method of client-server, it's well thought-out, not difficult to implement once you understand how the client and server interact with each other, and how to edit file paths.

jk

[jmone]

Glad you have it going - Clients should Sync every couple of minutes - https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Library_Server_Sync

[jwk246]

"Clients should Sync every couple of minutes..."
That really surprises me, because that is not the behavior I observed on 2 occasions- will do more testing. Thanks for that link, the more information, the better.

Thank you for your support jmone.

[jwk246]

Tried to rip Bluray disc from a client to the server using UNC path to disk to save rip.

Ripping from the client immediately failed, asking if I wanted to delete any files created (the normal message you get if the rip fails or if it is terminated by the user). UNC path to drive to be used in server was checked and was correct.

It seems that ripping from the client to the server UNC path may not be allowed???

Moved the Bluray to the server and tried to rip. The system did not recognize that any disc was in the drive. Windows Explorer did not see any disc in the drive either, but WinISO did.

Tried the Bluray disc in a second Bluray drive in the server and it was immediately recognized. Rebooted JRiver, same thing- Bluray drive R: is not aware of disc in drive (except for WinISO), Bluray drive S: is aware of disc in drive. Rebooted server and started JRiver, both drives now aware when discs are inserted.

Then I tried ripping from the server R: drive after changing the record destination direct path to the UNC equivalent path and I got this error:

"Ripping is currently unavailable.
Please ensure that a suitable optical drive is installed on this machine.
Also, make sure you are using a local library and are not in Party Mode."

So I changed the record destination path back to the direct drive and path and everything worked fine. Just had to manually update the path in Library to UNC so the clients could see it.

Another thought occurred, the server has 2 optical drives, R: and S: - the client has 1 optical drive, R: - Could this be a problem of when drive R: from the client tries to connect to a UNC path to drive L: in the server to write it's files, would the server essentially see 2 drive R:s and throw an error? And might that not be the source of why drive R: in the server stopped recognizing any discs in it's internal drive R:?

The clients are definitely not automatically updating their Libraries from the server. While searching for a solution to this, ran across this in Tools/Options/Media Network:

Client Options (when connected to a Library Server)

x Auto sync with server
x Play local file if one that matches Library Server file is found
x Show playback zones from the server on the client

All of these are checked- but I don't currently have the Media Network enabled because I only need to share files via DLNA  from the server; but I have a recollection that JRemote needs to have the Access Key (or I think, the IP address and port 52199) from the instance of JRiver to connect to it, and the only way to get that is to enable DLNA ... so, is this the same channel that JRiver uses for clients to announce themselves to the server so it can send the Library updates?

TIA for further clarification...
 

[jmone]

FYI - Media Center only support ripping on un-encrypted Discs - https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Blu-ray

I've never tried ripping from my HTPC Clients so I can not comment on that part.

[jwk246]

jmone, forgot to mention AnyDVD... I've ripped over 660 discs this way, so pretty sure it's working.

I forgot to mention something else I found interesting in my previous post... when I was testing playback on the 2 clients I build, I put AnyDVD on the first client because I was going to do some ripping... the second client was never meant for ripping and I forget to put AnyDVD on it- it plays the rips made with AnyDVD without any problem at all, so apparently playback on client only requires AnyDVD on the server side... not what I was expecting.

Oh, the other thing I forgot to mention was when I tried to rip on the server to a UNC path to a drive on the server, THAT'S when the error I previously mentioned occurred...

"Ripping is currently unavailable.
Please ensure that a suitable optical drive is installed on this machine.
Also, make sure you are using a local library and are not in Party Mode."

my mistake...

when I tried to rip from the client to the server, it just failed and asked if I wanted to delete the files just created...

sorry about the confusion. Correcting my earlier post.

[jmone]

OK - I think you have a couple of options as it sounds like you can't rip a BD from a Cleint. (The pre-req is of course the physical PC doing the BD ripping needs to have AnyDVD running and a BD Drive).

1) Rip on the PC running MC Server / AnyDVD (this is what I do):  Put BD in drive, wait for AnyDVD to do it's thing and MC will pop up asking if you want to rip.  Go ahead with the ripping to the default UNC path set in MC's options, then tag (Get Movie and TV Info) etc when it is finished.  Your clients then should "see" the new rip in a few minutes (or restart MC to re-load the library).

2) On a MC Client HTPC: I'm really not sure how much you can do from a Library Server Client but......rip the BD using AnyDVD's Interface to the UNC Share.  Once done, try using explorer to to navigate to the \\UNC Share\New Ripped BD\BDMV\index.bdmv --> right click on this file --> MediaCenter--> Import.  If that works then tag etc.  If that does not work, then remote in (or however you access) the MC Server PC and use the same method to import index.bdmv from the UNC Share, then tag etc.

[jmone]

it plays the rips made with AnyDVD without any problem at all, so apparently playback on client only requires AnyDVD on the server side... not what I was expecting.

Actually, AnyDVD is only need for the ripping process.  Once it is saved on your HDD, it has been decrypted and MC (and it's clients) are fine to play it as is (without needed AnyDVD).

[jwk246]

Even though the media is decrypted, it was my understanding that AnyDVD was needed if the path wasn't HDCP compliant, and it doesn't seem like the network path from server to client would be HDCP compliant.

This whole 'ripping from client to server' would be very convenient if it worked, but that is not one of my main goals... and I only rip a couple of discs a week, so I'm not put out by going to a different room to do it. When the overhead of steps in the procedure approaches the point where it exceeds the effort of walking a few steps, it reaches a critical mass where it's usefulness becomes limited by my lack of enthusiasm. It was, however, an interesting experiment.

Thanks, I truly appreciate your efforts to resolve my questions!

[jmone]

Sounds good, it seems you are all set.

Even though the media is decrypted, it was my understanding that AnyDVD was needed if the path wasn't HDCP compliant, and it doesn't seem like the network path from server to client would be HDCP compliant

Nope - HDCP is only used for encrypted content.  This is one of the great benefits of decrypting your BDs and storing them on your HDD.  They are not encrypted, and all the HDCP nonsense no longer kicks in.  You can now use any combination of software and equipment to watch your content. 

[jwk246]

I clearly must have not understood how AnyDVD actually works for quite some time. I always thought it maintained the decryption keys on the host computer and decrypted the ripped file every time it was played back. Obviously I have a lot to learn.

Getting back to clients and my issue with them not being automatically updated with new rips from the server, are you running the DLNA server on your clients?

[jmone]

Here are the settings I use (my clients are both Library Server, DLNA, and MCWS clients).  Note: the Authentication does not apply to DLNA clients but does to the rest.

I clearly must have not understood how AnyDVD actually works for quite some time. I always thought it maintained the decryption keys on the host computer and decrypted the ripped file every time it was played back. Obviously I have a lot to learn.

There is a "Rip to ISO" with "Keep Protection" where that is true but if you are just ripping to folder then the M2TS files are decrypted.

[jwk246]

Thanks jmone for your response... are the settings you're showing what are on your Server, or are you saying that all your MC installations act as both server and client? I guess I could understand the later if you have your media distributed across several client/servers rather than having one server and everything else clients.

I did look closer at my setup regarding trying to rip a bluray from a client to the server, and looked closer at my configuration. I realized that when I initially set up the permissions on the drives in the server I had only allowed 'read only' permission, and forgotten that I hadn't allowed them to be written to. As it turns out, it seems that it really doesn't make any difference, because it seems that JRiver won't allow you to rip a Bluray unless that machine's own local library is active, or you get the:

"Ripping is currently unavailable.
Please ensure that a suitable optical drive is installed on this machine.
Also, make sure you are using a local library and are not in Party Mode."

message. You probably could rip to the server's UNC path if the local library was selected, but then the location of that rip would be written into your local library and not the server's library. You might be able to Remote Desktop (or your own choice of remote connection method) into the server to cut & paste the rip's info into the server's library, but it's not immediately apparent to me how to do that). Convoluted; and it seems that JRiver has no facility for this kind of client-to-server interaction- although it would be nice if it did; I think that would necessitate having AnyDVD on the client machine for ripping encrypted discs.

I didn't know what 'Party Mode' actually meant, but after reading the Wiki, as I understand it, it's a simple way of enabling/disabling writing or changing server files without having to go through changing the server's drive permissions- correct me if I'm wrong. It's not what I would have intuited from the 'Party Mode' moniker.

[mwillems]

Ripping of any kind is not supported on clients at all, and never has been sadly.  The workaround is to either rip on the server, or uncouple the client from the server, rip, and then reload the server's library.  It's on the relatively short list of things clients can't do (clients also can't change cover art for example).

[jwk246]

I'd come to that conclusion. Still, it would be nice to have the option to hide the server away and rip to it from a client. Of course I would expect some kind of elevated permission to enable that option would be needed to keep unauthorized fingers from f'ing the server up. It would be nice to move my server (which has 9 drives and is rather large) out of the living room and use a smaller client in my AV rack.