Topic: Can MC select the Next song but not play it, in standard view? (Read 2070 times)

thezone · « **on:** October 28, 2018, 11:07:34 pm »

Hi all,

I'm trying to use MC as an on stage device to play backing tracks using a windows based touch screen.

So far nearly there, I can configure MC to stop playback at the end of a song in standard view, but is there anyway to have MC select the Next song ready to play which I could then start with the space bar? At this point I have to select the next song manually and then hit the space bar.

I am playing in a show band with lots of changes and I'm trying to minimise the amount of time I spend touching things on the screen.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2018, 11:24:20 pm »

There is a search function at the bottom of the Options dialogue.

Search for "stop after".

thezone · « **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2018, 12:37:13 am »

Quote from: RoderickGI on October 28, 2018, 11:24:20 pm

There is a search function at the bottom of the Options dialogue.

Search for "stop after".

Thanks unfortunately this did not yield any results at all especially to advise if MC can select the next song but not play it (eg wait for me to start playback).

RoderickGI · « **Reply #3 on:** October 29, 2018, 01:44:20 am »

Options > Audio > Advanced > Advance to next track when stopping after the curent track

I tested it. It works. When "Player > Repeat" in the top MC menu is set to "Stop after each item" (or it is set using the Repeat button in the interface), MC stops playback at the end of each track, and advances to the next track in Playing Now. I assume you are managing your sets using Playing Now?

So once a track has finished playing, the next track in Playing Now is selected, and all you have to do is hit Play, or the Spacebar (see other thread you wrote today) and MC will start playback of the selected track.

thezone · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2018, 03:12:34 am »

Quote from: RoderickGI on October 29, 2018, 01:44:20 am

Options > Audio > Advanced > Advance to next track when stopping after the curent track

I tested it. It works. When "Player > Repeat" in the top MC menu is set to "Stop after each item" (or it is set using the Repeat button in the interface), MC stops playback at the end of each track, and advances to the next track in Playing Now. I assume you are managing your sets using Playing Now?

So once a track has finished playing, the next track in Playing Now is selected, and all you have to do is hit Play, or the Spacebar (see other thread you wrote today) and MC will start playback of the selected track.

Awesome thank you for this. Although when I check Options > Audio > Advanced > Advance to next track is not there?

Also I do not know how to use "Playing Now" to play songs.

I have them tagged in an appropriate way so that they are stored by Album>Artist>set 1 etc but I get a bit confused with the playing now function. Is there a wiki for this?

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2018, 03:17:19 am »

It's in a newer build that's in private beta and will be released in the next public build.

thezone · « **Reply #6 on:** October 29, 2018, 03:41:24 am »

Quote from: Awesome Donkey on October 29, 2018, 03:17:19 am

It's in a newer build that's in private beta and will be released in the next public build.

Oh goody! I have a gig in 2 weeks will it be available by then?

JimH · « **Reply #7 on:** October 29, 2018, 04:56:01 am »

RoderickGI · « **Reply #8 on:** October 29, 2018, 06:00:25 am »

Oops. Sorry Jim. I didn't check when that was added.

thezone · « **Reply #9 on:** October 29, 2018, 06:17:57 am »

That's awesome fellas, and such great timing for me! This is another reason why I have and always will religiously upgrade to each new version of MC each year. I love this program, its been the centre of my HTPC's for the past 8-10 years and I haven't even scratched the surface of what its capable of.

Could I ask one more question:

Once this feature is available - If I enable Options > Audio > Advanced > Advance to next track will this function be available when playing directly in standard view from Audio>Albums>Track 1, Track 02 ....? Or will I need to use Playing Now?

The reason being, as you can imagine playing a show live I need to adhere to a strict order of songs (which I have tagged in a specific track order Track 1, Track 02 etc ) so I cant risk using a more volatile playing method which may result in the order of songs being mixed up.

Hope this makes sense.

swiv3d · « **Reply #10 on:** October 29, 2018, 07:43:05 am »

Why not put the tracks into a playlist in the order you want them?

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #11 on:** October 29, 2018, 08:46:02 am »

Your wish has been granted, 24.0.60 with this option is out.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,118022.0.html

RoderickGI · « **Reply #12 on:** October 29, 2018, 04:46:33 pm »

Quote from: thezone on October 29, 2018, 03:12:34 am

Also I do not know how to use "Playing Now" to play songs.

I have them tagged in an appropriate way so that they are stored by Album>Artist>set 1 etc but I get a bit confused with the playing now function. Is there a wiki for this?

Okay, I missed some of this, or more correctly overlooked it because you have been registered with the forum since 2012, so I thought you knew how to use MC.

Quote from: thezone on October 29, 2018, 06:17:57 am

Once this feature is available - If I enable Options > Audio > Advanced > Advance to next track will this function be available when playing directly in standard view from Audio>Albums>Track 1, Track 02 ....? Or will I need to use Playing Now?

The reason being, as you can imagine playing a show live I need to adhere to a strict order of songs (which I have tagged in a specific track order Track 1, Track 02 etc ) so I cant risk using a more volatile playing method which may result in the order of songs being mixed up.

This option will work with Playing Now¹, and not the View you describe above, or in the Playlist I describe below. In fact, you are just making a lot more work for yourself, tagging Tracks in the order that you want them played, and trying to play from the View you created of those Tracks. Playlists are designed to do what you want! Playlists and Playing Now aren't volatile if used properly. This is what you should do;

1. Select all the Tracks you want to play, or your client does.
2. Create a Playlist of those Tracks, and sequence it in the order they are to be played. You can drag and drop them into the correct sequence, making last minute changes made by the client easy to accomodate, whether a resequence, replacement or deletion of a Track. Note that the Sequence number to the left is the key to using Playlists and Playing Now properly.
3. When you have the sequence correct and you want to protect the Playlist from changes, right-click and select "Lock" or click the Lock button on the Playlist page. Now you can't change the sequence without first unlocking the Playlist.
4. When you are ready to start at the gig, or setting up, add the Playlist to Playing Now. You should review the settings at "Options > General > Behaviour > Double Click". I would probably set that to "Replace Playing Now (all)", so that you could just double click on the Playlist and all Tracks will be added to Playing Now in the correct sequence.
5. From then on work in Playing Now. Use tabs if you want so that you can search for other Tracks which might come up as special requests during the night. That happens. Always have a tab open on Playing Now so that you can see what just played, what is next, when other tracks are coming up etc. But even if you don't have Playing Now visible, pressing the spacebar will start playback of the next (currently selected because of the setting we are discussing) Track.

6. If ever you get mucked up in the sequence or need to reset to the sequence you had in the Playlist, you can just add the Playlist to Playing Now again (using a replace method, i.e. double click with the correct setting as above), select the next Track you were supposed to play in the list, and then hit the spacebar to start playback again.

Search the Wiki for topics discussing Playlists and Playing Now. Read up on everything! Learn about and avoid Shuffle. Check out the right-click options on Playlists.

I strongly recommend that you practice using a Playlist and Playing Now a lot before your gig in a couple of weeks so that using them is second nature.

You could also look at creating a View that gives you all the information you want during the gig. Take a look at my example here: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,117461.msg812705.html#msg812705 although that is more suitable for a pool room listening session where people select Tracks during the night and add them to Playing Now, while the host manages Playing Now by reordering Tracks using drag and drop as required.

So get on it, there is a learning curve for you. I hope the gig goes well.

Note 1:
I tried changing the setting at "Options > General > Behaviour > Play Button" to "Play visible files" instead of my usual setting of "Play Playing Now", but MC didn't advance to the next visible Track in the View I was using. It did advance to the next Track in Playing Now (which I had open on another tab) even with the "Play visible files" setting, but then if I was still sitting in a view when I hit Play or spacebar again, MC started the first Track in the View again. So use Playing Now.

thezone · « **Reply #13 on:** October 29, 2018, 05:52:41 pm »

Quote from: Awesome Donkey on October 29, 2018, 08:46:02 am

Your wish has been granted, 24.0.60 with this option is out.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,118022.0.html

Thank you so much Awesome Donkey!

Roderick GI - what can I say, thank you for such a comprehensive write up! I will definitely re-read this and practice using a Playlist and Playing Now a before my gig!

Thanks again to everyone!

thezone · « **Reply #14 on:** November 04, 2018, 02:30:37 am »

So I have followed your advice re: creating a playlist and then adding that to "Playing Now" in order to use the Options > Audio > Advanced > Advance to next track.

All works fine, I have made set lists of the predefined songs and I am playing them using play now.

There is one small issue.

I click on the first song and hit the space bar or enter and the first song plays.

At the end of the first song, the next song is selected but not played and all I have to do is hit the space bar and it plays. All good.

Except when MC plays the 2nd to last song in the playlist in playing now, it does not cue up the last song. And if I hit the space bar it starts playing the first song in the playlist in playing now instead of the last.

This behaviour is consistent, it doesn't matter how many songs I have in playing now, this function of cueing up the next song but not playing it does not work for the last song in the list.

Any ideas?

RoderickGI · « **Reply #15 on:** November 04, 2018, 07:02:39 pm »

It sounds like a bug related to this change;

24.0.59 (10/24/2018)
9. Fixed: Removing played tracks from Playing Now didn't work nicely on the last track of the playlist.

That fix didn't fix everything in MC24.0.59, when Repeat Play was off. There has been another attempt to fix that since, but that looks like it didn't work either.

I just played a three track Playlist with your settings, and it played track 1 an 2, then dropped back to track 1.

I suggest that for now you put a dummy "This is the last Track" track at the end of each Playlist, and MC will play all but that last Track

Someone will notice this issue and look at it soon I'm sure.

thezone · « **Reply #16 on:** November 04, 2018, 07:25:35 pm »

Quote from: RoderickGI on November 04, 2018, 07:02:39 pm

It sounds like a bug related to this change;

24.0.59 (10/24/2018)
9. Fixed: Removing played tracks from Playing Now didn't work nicely on the last track of the playlist.

That fix didn't fix everything in MC24.0.59, when Repeat Play was off. There has been another attempt to fix that since, but that looks like it didn't work either.

I just played a three track Playlist with your settings, and it played track 1 an 2, then dropped back to track 1.

I suggest that for now you put a dummy "This is the last Track" track at the end of each Playlist, and MC will play all but that last Track

Someone will notice this issue and look at it soon I'm sure.

Thanks RoderickGi, that certainly looks like a workable quick fix for now.

Cheers

thezone · « **Reply #17 on:** November 11, 2018, 01:07:13 am »

Hi guys,

So I had my fist gig with my new show band (actually its Bruno Mars tribute show) using MC24 as the audio playback with me triggering playback on the drums from a laptop using playlists as described above and adding said playlist to Playing now and I am finding the playback a bit inconsistent.

The first song wouldn't start playing at all which was very embarrassing as we had an intro video playback (from a different source) on a screen behind the stage and all I had to do was hit start on the track but MC refused to play it and I had to fiddle with the first song in "playing now" clicking on it with the mouse, hit the space bar to start the song but nothing happened then hit enter but still didn't start.

I finally got the first song to play but there were some other songs which would not start when I pressed the space bar. Eg The first song played and then cued up the 2nd song but when the first song ended, I hit the space bar, the song title displayed at the top of Standard view but did not play, then I hit the spacebar again and it started. Then MC played 4 or 5 songs in a row correctly (cueing them but not playing until I hit the space bar) but then it would not play some songs unless I hit the space bar twice.

Can anyone advise what i might be doing wrong?

Anyway overall the show was well received here is a quick video of the performance.

https://youtu.be/gYRhM6rT1jg

RoderickGI · « **Reply #18 on:** November 11, 2018, 04:34:06 pm »

Did you test the setup with your laptop connected to the same equipment before the gig?

It could be MC detected different hardware connected, and had to do a conversion on the fly or something. At least for the first track.

When following tracks wouldn't start, were they different format tracks? i.e. Were most 44.1 16bit, but some 192 24bit? If so, the connected equipment may not like changing format between tracks in a playlist. Apparently some DACs are like that.

Best to have all tracks in exactly the same format for a gig. Also keep MC settings simple, such as no fancy Zones or Zonewitch.

If not the above, how did you get the first track to play?

thezone · « **Reply #19 on:** November 11, 2018, 05:14:48 pm »

Thanks for your prompt response Roderick I have provided answers to your questions below

Did you test the setup with your laptop connected to the same equipment before the gig?
Yes all the equipment is mine and we have been rehearsing with this set up for some weeks now, with the only change being your suggestions re: playing now which I used in the last rehearsal.

It could be MC detected different hardware connected, and had to do a conversion on the fly or something. At least for the first track.
Same hardware set up was used in sound check but I was playing songs randomly and not in order.

When following tracks wouldn't start, were they different format tracks? i.e. Were most 44.1 16bit, but some 192 24bit? If so, the connected equipment may not like changing format between tracks in a playlist. Apparently some DACs are like that.
No all songs are 44.1 16bit FLAC files.

Best to have all tracks in exactly the same format for a gig. Also keep MC settings simple, such as no fancy Zones or Zonewitch.
No zones set up or different players within MC, I've tried to keep this install of MC as simple as possible but in DSP Studio I do have Volume Levelling and Adaptive Volume ticked with "Peak Level Normalize" checked as I thought this would be useful for keeping all output levels the same for sending to the FOH.

If not the above, how did you get the first track to play?
I cant quite remember as I was a bit flustered with everyone waiting for me to start, (I realise that's not very helpful). I'm pretty sure I just kept clicking on different songs and then back on the first song and then trying to press "Enter" instead of Space bar as this seems to be a more robust way to ensure the song starts. Issue is, the enter button is small and the space bar big which works well for stage.

Only other thing is Windows was locked when i came up on stage and I had to open it with a password, wouldn't have thought that would be a huge deal.

The big concern for me is that MC would play a few songs in a row and then just cued up the next song but wouldn't play it unless I hit the space bar twice. Very odd.

Thanks again for all your help, I couldn't have come this far with out it!

RoderickGI · « **Reply #20 on:** November 12, 2018, 02:13:51 am »

All of the above sounds good.

The only other thing I can think of is if your laptop was on a network when you tested in rehearsals, but wasn't at the gig. Maybe if it wasn't, it could have been trying to connect to a wireless network. Of course, if you played any new type of media when access to the internet wasn't available, MC would try to download components and fail, which could cause a delay in playback starting until MC gave up on the download.

Did you test with the wireless network turned off in the laptop? Maybe put it in Airplane Mode for any gigs and rehearsals, if it is Windows 10, or just turn off the wireless adapter.

Same thing with MC Updates. You should have that turned off in MC, and only do manual updates in MC, as you do not want an update to start just as you are about to start a gig, or even for MC to try looking for an update.

Other than that all I can suggest is that you set up as you did for the gig, start logging in MC and run the playlist to see if you can capture the problem in the log.

If you can make the problem occur again, try setting MC into Audio Only Mode, and perhaps turning off any Features you won't be using in Options. The aim would be to stop any background tasks, and to that end, you should make sure all Thumbnails are prebuilt, all Audio Analysed, and anything else you can think of.

Maybe someone else has some ideas?

thezone · « **Reply #21 on:** November 12, 2018, 05:26:53 am »

Thanks for the advice Roderick, I have a rehearsal tomorrow night so I will disable all network features and put the laptop in airplane mode to be sure MC doesn't try to connect to the internet prior to playback.

In Audio Options, I disabled memory playback (it was set to load full file (not decoded) into memory) it feels like its starting songs much quicker now, could this have stalled playback? I would have thought loading a file into memory would make playback more instantaneous.

Also what about

Pre-buffering

Play silence at startup for hardware sync (I have this set to 1 second)

and Live Playback Latency (50ms).

I need to test all these out when connected to the hardware. Too many options!

JimH · « **Reply #22 on:** November 12, 2018, 05:41:00 am »

I think you know now, but at home you need to duplicate the exact conditions you will be using for your performance. Once it's working, don't change anything and don't try something you haven't tested at home.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #23 on:** November 12, 2018, 03:19:14 pm »

I did think to ask about memory playback after I posted my last message. I would not use that in your situation. Yes, it could delay the start of playback, though it shouldn't be by much.

You should only be using the amount of buffering required to get smooth playback.

A latency of 50ms, which I assume in the recommended amount for your hardware, or you are using the MC recommended amount, wouldn't be an issue. You need the correct buffering and latency settings to get good sound quality, and then live with the minor delay. It isn't going to be noticeable.

Don't use "Play Silence at Startup for hardware synchronisation" unless your hardware actually exhibits some problems when it tries to start playing something without it. Certainly, try it without that setting. What driver are you outputting to? ASIO or WASAPI in Exclusive Mode I assume.

You also need to decide how you want to handle tracks that have long silences at the start. I use the "Do not play silence (leading and trailing)" myself, which gives a more consistent startup of tracks, I think. You really don't want to hit play on a track that has three seconds of silence or near silence at the beginning, unless you are aware of that and plan for it.

Perhaps you should put a short standard track at the beginning of every playlist, and then play that one track to check all is good, shortly before starting the gig. Maybe an intro of some sort? Make it your own!

Also, I would have the laptop on power and not battery for the gig, and use a Windows Power Plan that didn't turn off the hard disk or screen while doing a gig, unless you need the screen to shut down for aesthetics. If your laptop uses a spinning hard drive rather than an SSD, that can delay startup for a bit if it has gone to sleep.

thezone · « **Reply #24 on:** November 12, 2018, 07:01:44 pm »

Quote from: JimH on November 12, 2018, 05:41:00 am

I think you know now, but at home you need to duplicate the exact conditions you will be using for your performance. Once it's working, don't change anything and don't try something you haven't tested at home.

Thank you Jim, certainly good advice I will definitely adhere to this.

Thanks again Roderick I appreciate your detailed responses. I have answered in red below.

Quote from: RoderickGI on November 12, 2018, 03:19:14 pm

I did think to ask about memory playback after I posted my last message. I would not use that in your situation. Yes, it could delay the start of playback, though it shouldn't be by much. I have disabled this now as it seems to play quicker - I need to be able to start songs very quickly to reduce dead air on stage.

You should only be using the amount of buffering required to get smooth playback. It seems the minimum of 2 secs works fine.

A latency of 50ms, which I assume in the recommended amount for your hardware, or you are using the MC recommended amount, wouldn't be an issue. You need the correct buffering and latency settings to get good sound quality, and then live with the minor delay. It isn't going to be noticeable. I will leave these at default for now.

Don't use "Play Silence at Startup for hardware synchronisation" unless your hardware actually exhibits some problems when it tries to start playing something without it. Certainly, try it without that setting. What driver are you outputting to? ASIO or WASAPI in Exclusive Mode I assume. I had this set to 1 sec, I will set to none and see what happens. I always use WASAPI in Exclusive Mode. The output is via USB to a

You also need to decide how you want to handle tracks that have long silences at the start. I use the "Do not play silence (leading and trailing)" myself, which gives a more consistent startup of tracks, I think. You really don't want to hit play on a track that has three seconds of silence or near silence at the beginning, unless you are aware of that and plan for it. I personally edited all the tracks so that there are no silences at start up to minimise delay. But I will check the "Do not play silence (leading and trailing)" option as this make sense!

Perhaps you should put a short standard track at the beginning of every playlist, and then play that one track to check all is good, shortly before starting the gig. Maybe an intro of some sort? Make it your own! This would need to be done at sound check - I couldn't make any noise prior to the start. We have an intro Video that is played before the start and I need to cue up and start the song in the dark and make sure that it starts as soon as the video ends. I get 2 bars of click once I commence playback before the music starts and I have to time it so the music starts just after the video ends so I have to "Start" the song just prior to the end of the intro video. Having the first song in the playlist is easier for me to start this.

Also, I would have the laptop on power and not battery for the gig, and use a Windows Power Plan that didn't turn off the hard disk or screen while doing a gig, unless you need the screen to shut down for aesthetics. If your laptop uses a spinning hard drive rather than an SSD, that can delay startup for a bit if it has gone to sleep. I always keep the laptop plugged in for sure, and I have configured windows to not sleep or turn off screen, but the issue is this is my work laptop and they have hard wired the unit to lock after a period of inactivity which I cant change. It's not an issue while its being used but I need to make sure I open it with a password just b4 the show. TBH its not a deal breaker juts one more thing I have to remember. It a brand new DELL and uses only SSD.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #25 on:** November 15, 2018, 03:26:14 pm »

Quote from: thezone on November 04, 2018, 02:30:37 am

Except when MC plays the 2nd to last song in the playlist in playing now, it does not cue up the last song. And if I hit the space bar it starts playing the first song in the playlist in playing now instead of the last.

This behaviour is consistent, it doesn't matter how many songs I have in playing now, this function of cueing up the next song but not playing it does not work for the last song in the list.

This problem has now been fixed. MC will select the last track in Playing Now with the settings discussed, and play it when the spacebar is hit.

Look for the fix in a public version of MC24.0.63 or greater.

thezone · « **Reply #26 on:** November 19, 2018, 12:48:06 am »

Quote from: RoderickGI on November 15, 2018, 03:26:14 pm

This problem has now been fixed. MC will select the last track in Playing Now with the settings discussed, and play it when the spacebar is hit.

Look for the fix in a public version of MC24.0.63 or greater.

Awesome! Thanks RoderickGI. I did another gig on the weekend with the settings above and all worked flawlessly. Thanks for all your detailed explanations and assistance. It has been invaluable!

Here's another Video teaser!

https://www.facebook.com/TheLodgeHotelSA/videos/2211694505770375/

PS It appears the only public version available is 24.0.60.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #27 on:** November 19, 2018, 05:11:14 pm »

Quote from: thezone on November 19, 2018, 12:48:06 am

PS It appears the only public version available is 24.0.60.

It won't be long before a 63+ public version will be available, I'm sure, and you have a good workaround for the issue now.

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Author Topic: Can MC select the Next song but not play it, in standard view? (Read 2070 times)

swiv3d