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[Fangio]

I recently switched to using OTA EPG data, and see that recordings made after switching to OTA have their Program ID and Series ID tags populated. Please could we have Program ID and Series ID added to the Search Rules options, and also to the ‘Do not record programs that have been recorded in the past’ fields for recording subscriptions? This would be a really useful addition when recording a series.

[ErikN]

I don't think you are limited to the drop-down menu of fields/operators and can enter a custom expression. This is usually the case in MC. Excuse the muddling a little as I'm not home and am trying to recall from memory...

For example, I don't think the drop down even has "Episode" but I have set custom rules looking for a specific range of episode numbers. I imagine there are number of people that know this by heart, but if the field is available in the EPG data then select custom rule and  "[Episode]=3" or, in your case, something like "[Series ID]=1234".

[Fangio]

Thank you for your reply, but that’s not what I mean. I am referring to the ‘Program ID’ and ‘Series ID’ tags, not the ‘Series’, ‘Season’ and ‘Episode’ tags.

For example, all of my recordings of the series ‘University Challenge Christmas 2018’ have the value ‘/1RKM3Q’ in their Program ID tag. Each of these recordings has a unique value in its Series ID tag, for example ‘/1RKM3Q’, ‘/1RKM3R’, ‘/1RKM3S’ and so on.

It is this data, which is part of the OTA EPG data, which I am referring to.

[ErikN]

Granted this still might not help, but I did understand you meant "Series ID" and not "Series" thus [Series ID] in my example.

When you record one of these shows, I am assuming (maybe very very incorrectly) that "Series ID" gets populated in the tags for the recording. While SeriesID is not in the rule drop-down, if MC is aware of the tags then you can set a custom recording rule where you literally type in [Series ID]=/1RKM3Q.  In the drop down (again from memory) I think the last option is "Custom" and leaves a big text box next to it. You can type in any MC expression you want there.


 

[RoderickGI]

Unfortunately the ability to free form edit the Recording Rules in the "By search rules" box has been removed at some time. I don't know when that happened. Probably when the "Edit Rules" button was added, but I thought it still worked after that.

There is also no "Import/Export" button on the "Edit TV Recording Rules" dialogue, which is another way free form or custom expressions can be added in many areas of MC.

Finally, there is no "Custom" option in the drop-down lists for Recording Rules.


I looked at all that yesterday when I saw Fangio's post. This is one for Yaobing.

[Fangio]

Granted this still might not help, but I did understand you meant "Series ID" and not "Series" thus [Series ID] in my example.

When you record one of these shows, I am assuming (maybe very very incorrectly) that "Series ID" gets populated in the tags for the recording. While SeriesID is not in the rule drop-down, if MC is aware of the tags then you can set a custom recording rule where you literally type in [Series ID]=/1RKM3Q.  In the drop down (again from memory) I think the last option is "Custom" and leaves a big text box next to it. You can type in any MC expression you want there.
 

Again, thanks for your input. You are correct in that Series ID is populated in the tag when a recording file is created. However, at the point of setting up a new recording subscription, there is no recording to refer back to and currently no way of determining the Series ID.

[Fangio]

...This is one for Yaobing.

I'll be interested to see what he says. Thanks for taking a look.

[ErikN]

That's pretty bizarre. I will look through my rules when I get back. Maybe it was a hallucination but I swear I created a subscription using a custom expression that included a field not in the drop-down a couple of weeks back...

[ErikN]

I'm only going mildly crazy. Intended or not you can do a custom expression.

1) Create/Edit a subscription.
2) Selection "Edit Rules"
3) As noted, you will NOT see "Custom" in any drop-down.
    Simply select "Add New Rule"
4) When you add a new rule, the drop-down area starts off blank and you can type in the empty text box next to it. Do not touch the drop-down (leave it empty). In the text entry box next to it type something like:
       [Series ID]=the_id_you_want
5) Ok

You will see the big "Rules" text-area get updated. If you "Edit Rules" again, you will actually see the drop-down properly (seemingly impossibly) displaying "Series ID", "contains", and "the_id_you_want". You can even change the "contains" to "is", "is not", etc. and change the value. Just do not touch the drop-down.

[RoderickGI]

Well done ErikN!

I didn't think to try typing in that righthand box, which is usually the operator and value side. But it works! Sweet! 

[Yaobing]

I'm only going mildly crazy. Intended or not you can do a custom expression.

1) Create/Edit a subscription.
2) Selection "Edit Rules"
3) As noted, you will NOT see "Custom" in any drop-down.
    Simply select "Add New Rule"
4) When you add a new rule, the drop-down area starts off blank and you can type in the empty text box next to it. Do not touch the drop-down (leave it empty). In the text entry box next to it type something like:
       [Series ID]=the_id_you_want
5) Ok

You will see the big "Rules" text-area get updated. If you "Edit Rules" again, you will actually see the drop-down properly (seemingly impossibly) displaying "Series ID", "contains", and "the_id_you_want". You can even change the "contains" to "is", "is not", etc. and change the value. Just do not touch the drop-down.

This is a very creative method.  Nice!

I recently switched to using OTA EPG data, and see that recordings made after switching to OTA have their Program ID and Series ID tags populated. Please could we have Program ID and Series ID added to the Search Rules options, and also to the ‘Do not record programs that have been recorded in the past’ fields for recording subscriptions? This would be a really useful addition when recording a series.

MC automatically skips a show if a previously recorded show has a Program ID that matches the program currently in consideration as they are assumed to be the same show.  All other fields (Name, Series, Description) are ignored if Program IDs already match.

[Fangio]

MC automatically skips a show if a previously recorded show has a Program ID that matches the program currently in consideration as they are assumed to be the same show.  All other fields (Name, Series, Description) are ignored if Program IDs already match.

So can I ask MC to look only at Program ID when it is making this decision?

[RoderickGI]

Just add the only recording rules of;
[Program ID]=/1RKM3Q

for example, using the method ErikN described above.

But I always thought that Program ID was a unique identifier of a specific program, of which there would only be one. Your original post says that the series ‘University Challenge Christmas 2018’ have the value ‘/1RKM3Q’ in their Program ID tag. Each of these recordings has a unique value in its Series ID tag, for example ‘/1RKM3Q’, ‘/1RKM3R’, ‘/1RKM3S’ and so on.

That implies a one-to-many relationship between Program ID and Series ID. I thought that was the other way around. A Series is a group of programs broken down into Seasons and Episodes, and has a Series ID. Each Episode in a Series would have a unique Program ID.

Are we getting terminology mixed up here?

[Fangio]

Are we getting terminology mixed up here?

Yes. I’m sorry, that will teach me to post when I’m tired! What I meant to say was that all of the recordings carry the same Series ID, with each one having a unique Program ID (the unique episode identifier).

Just add the only recording rules of;
[Program ID]=/1RKM3Q

That works as long as I know what the Program ID is, but I can’t use this method if I just want to setup a new recording subscription based on an upcoming programme, because at that point I don’t know what the Program ID is.

My goal here is to setup a subscription to record all episodes of a series without recording duplicates. Hence my question regarding MC looking only at the Program ID.

[Yaobing]

It does make sense that I add Series ID and Program ID to possible fields.  Yes, Program ID is unique to each program, or an episode of a series.  For setting up a subscription, instead of searching for a phrase in [name] or [series], or [description], we can just look for a specific [series ID].  Different epg provider will have different series IDs for a show, some may not even have them.  As a user you will need to make sure you know what are available and how reliable they are.

[Yaobing]

My goal here is to setup a subscription to record all episodes of a series without recording duplicates. Hence my question regarding MC looking only at the Program ID.

This is what MC already does, sort of.

We look at Program ID, if a recording candidate and an already-recorded show have it.  If they match, we consider the show already recorded and will not record the candidate.  However, if the IDs do not match, we continue comparing other fields.  So in theory two shows can be deemed identical even if they have different program IDs (as they may have the same Title, Description, etc.).  If for any reason this is not desirable, I will need to add "Program ID" as a field to be selected by user.  That way you can select Program ID alone.


In summary, the following is the logic applied, assuming the user select to compare [Name], [Series], and [Description]:

(Program ID match) OR ((Name match) AND (Series Name Match) AND (Description Match))

[ErikN]

If feasible, it might be nice to let the user configure the "is duplicate" check the same way we setup the core subscription match. Specifically, we "Add Rules" to configure what matches the subscription. If we can just "Add Rules" for what is considered a duplicate, then you do not have to guess at what combinations users' need.

- Default the rule to the equivalent of the program id / series etc.
- Deleting / Disabling would record everything
- User can change to match need of particular EPG, Series, etc.

One series I record, on the same channel, lists episodes under one of two different titles. The Season / Episode number is perfect but the title for the same episode varies. I would have preferred to change the duplicate check to use only Season / Episode. Ultimately, I just recorded both to avoid having to keep canceling recordings.

[Fangio]

I occasionally get missed recordings due to mis-spellings of the name in the EPG, and I also get duplicate recordings due to changes in the description text, so I would like the option(s) to tell MC to look only at Series ID and Program ID when making a decision.

[RoderickGI]

Well, it looks to me that you pretty much have that, assuming that your EPG does always have the [Program ID] and [Series ID] fields in the feed.

Now that we have the naming correct, all you need is a recording rule of;
[Series ID]=/1RKM3Q  (or whatever the Series ID is)

You can create a view of the EPG data MC knows about, and when you see a new Series that you want to record, just look up the [Series ID] in the EPG data review, create a subscription, and edit the rules to the above.

An EPG data View is very simple. It just needs the View to be limited to the "Television Guide" database, which literally comes down to an expression of "~d=g", and not be restricted to Audio, Video, Data, or any other media types, either directly in the "Set rules for display" or via restrictions inherited from its parent (higher level) View. Then sort the View by [Date Recorded] (which is the date and time the program will be run in the EPG data), and you have a View of all future known programs, plus a few days into the past. Search can then easily be used to find the program you want the [Series ID] for.

It might actually be easier though to create a subscription via the normal processes in MC, let the first episode record, and then get the [Series ID] from the record for that first recording and edit the rules before the second episode runs.

As Yaobing has explained, if the [Program ID] field exists in the EPG data, and that [Program ID] has been recorded before, it won't be recorded again. MC will only try to look at other fields if either previous recordings, or the current EPG record, do not include the [Program ID].



Actually, I thought there was another way to get tag information for programs, by going to the Television item in the left Navigation pane, selecting a program you want data for, then selecting Tag in the action Window. But that doesn't seem to be working at the moment. It works for Recordings in that section, but not Programs. I can't remember for sure if it ever did, but it would be nice if it did. Also, once a Tag Windows is opened for a Recording, if you then navigate back to the Program list, the Recordings Tag data remains displayed in error. I would consider that an unintended feature. Comments Yaobing?