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Author Topic: Newbie questions  (Read 4502 times)

musicmahn

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Newbie questions
« on: April 25, 2019, 01:44:57 pm »

Hi All -
Coming to jriver from attempting to run musicbee to chromecast via their abandoned dnla app and BubbleUPnP.  Just was way too unreliable so I'm hoping for the best with jriver.  So far so good!

I've got a handful of questions here is what I have going thus far:



What is mandatory is that I can create sortable groups which I use to keep all related music from a given artist together.  For example Aphex Twin and his many aliases.  Or Bela Fleck, Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, Bela Fleck and Abigail Washington....and so on.  I don't like them scattered all over the place and prefer not to alter Album Artist.  So what I've done in the first few hours here is create a grouping tag for each and this allows me a list to the left from which I can sort.  Here they are together in my "Marshy" grouping.  Silly name was used just to be sure I was the one creating it...


I have Plex as well and I can achieve similar by using their "collection" feature which allows me to dump artists/album artists whatever into those buckets.  One great part about this is that once I tell it that the album artist "Bela and Abigail" belongs in my Bela Fleck collection, every future album that gets added by that album artist will automatically fall into that bucket. 
- What is the best way I can achieve this with MC?  I've realized I can add an expression to my import and that did the trick.  Will I need to create a million of these or is there easier way?  Will a million expressions bog down/crash the import?

-The middle panel is set up great.  It drills down from Grouping>Album Artist>Album.  I don't see any tracks/details until I double click down to the album level.  However if I select one of my Groupings from the left tree, what I see in the middle panel are all of the albums (instead of the next level, album artists).  I have it set to not auto expand as this would be a great way to quickly sort to the grouping I want.  But I would prefer the action in the middle pane to be the same as I first mentioned (Album Artist and then show albums).

-If the above isn't achievable, is there a way to get an A-Z jumpbar from which I can sort my groupings?  I have one at the album level, but that is all I could find.

-Can I use any image I want in the middle panel for my grouping thumbs?  I would like to use Artist images but no big if not.

-Last but not least.  Musicbee has a nice feature of having an inbox for freshly imported music.  It allows you to inspect the tags and everything else before you "release" it into your library.  Does MC have something like this or a workaround that people are using to achieve the same result?


Thanks for taking the time to help!



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Moe

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2019, 06:15:10 pm »

I have Plex as well and I can achieve similar by using their "collection" feature which allows me to dump artists/album artists whatever into those buckets.  One great part about this is that once I tell it that the album artist "Bela and Abigail" belongs in my Bela Fleck collection, every future album that gets added by that album artist will automatically fall into that bucket. 
- What is the best way I can achieve this with MC?  I've realized I can add an expression to my import and that did the trick.  Will I need to create a million of these or is there easier way?  Will a million expressions bog down/crash the import?

Check out Relational Fields.  Should do exactly what you're looking to do.

-The middle panel is set up great.  It drills down from Grouping>Album Artist>Album.  I don't see any tracks/details until I double click down to the album level.  However if I select one of my Groupings from the left tree, what I see in the middle panel are all of the albums (instead of the next level, album artists).  I have it set to not auto expand as this would be a great way to quickly sort to the grouping I want.  But I would prefer the action in the middle pane to be the same as I first mentioned (Album Artist and then show albums).
I very, very rarely use the tree to select things other than the main top level item.  I would suggest looking into pane views.

-Last but not least.  Musicbee has a nice feature of having an inbox for freshly imported music.  It allows you to inspect the tags and everything else before you "release" it into your library.  Does MC have something like this or a workaround that people are using to achieve the same result?
Not exactly, once the files are imported they are part of your library.  But you can set up views, or if you're using a panes view, set up pane that shows date imported so you can view only the most recent imported items.  I have this, the expression I use for date imported is formatdate([date imported, 0],date)

Hope that helps to at least lead you down the right path.
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swiv3d

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2019, 06:49:24 pm »

-Last but not least.  Musicbee has a nice feature of having an inbox for freshly imported music.  It allows you to inspect the tags and everything else before you "release" it into your library.  Does MC have something like this or a workaround that people are using to achieve the same result?

In playlists there is the item  Recently Imported which will list the most recently imported files and their tags.
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blgentry

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2019, 09:30:23 am »

I think I know what you are trying to do.  Let me see if I'm close:

Would you like to have your custom groups at the same level as Album Artist?  So for example, at this level you would see Tom Petty, Pink Floyd, and Bella Fleck Group .  Then when you drill into Tom Petty you see all of his albums.  When you drill into Bella Fleck Group, you see all albums by all band variants of Bella Fleck.

If so, I think I have an MC organizational technique for you.  If you'd like that behavior, I can describe how to create it.  It will require manual work for each "Artist Variant Group" that you create. But only one or two expressions that will never change.

Brian.
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musicmahn

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2019, 10:26:04 am »

Would you like to have your custom groups at the same level as Album Artist?  So for example, at this level you would see Tom Petty, Pink Floyd, and Bella Fleck Group .  Then when you drill into Tom Petty you see all of his albums.  When you drill into Bella Fleck Group, you see all albums by all band variants of Bela Fleck.



This is actually what I have right now (when I click a group in the tree).  I get all of the albums contained in that group.

When I click a group in the middle panel instead, what I get is all of the Album Artists I tagged to that group - This is what I prefer and what I'm trying to achieve by clicking a group in the tree.  Basically I would like to click the group "Marshy" in the tree and see what you can see in my 2nd screenshot above.  Once I click one of those 3 Album Artists I then see the albums that only pertain to that album artist.

The issue is that ultimately I'll have a ton of groups and so a quick list to the left or an A-Z jump bar would help me navigate much quicker when desired. 

Thanks for the replies everyone appreciate it!
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Moe

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2019, 11:47:10 am »

Here is why I suggest investigating pane views.  I just made a couple of groupings for this example.  I made one for Eric Clapton for the various bands he's been a member of, one for Snoop Dogg for his own albums and songs he's been featured on and one for Mike Patton and his many, many projects.

Here is what the view looks like before selecting a grouping, you'll notice I have the alphabet like you're wanting.



And then this is what I see if I choose the Eric Clapton Grouping



Is that getting close to what you want?
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musicmahn

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2019, 01:18:14 pm »

In theory this is what I'm looking for and really I already do have it in that middle panel.
Pane view I never went for because my goal is to purchase a windows tablet that I can run this off of and with my big fingers I'll definitely prefer thumbnails.
The only thing I would wish to use the tree for is selecting my grouping, and from there I would want the middle panel to then show the Album Artists within that group.

Ultimately what I have can work, I'm just being picky about something I plan to live with for many years to come ;)
Another way to look at my issue is that I can't get that 2nd screenshot to appear no matter what I am clicking on the tree to the left.  It's always just a set or subset of albums.  How can I view the Album Artists within a grouping by clicking anywhere in the tree? 
Just weird because the hierarchy appears clear (Grouping>Album Artist>Album) but it doesn't act this way when using the tree instead of thumbnails.
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Moe

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2019, 01:56:59 pm »

Would this work for you?  Seems fat finger friendly :)

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musicmahn

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2019, 02:04:15 pm »

This still goes from grouping > albums though.
How can you get your setup there (other than pane view) to show all of the album artists you have within clapton (himself, cream, derek and dominoes etc)?
in thumbnail?
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Moe

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2019, 03:37:28 pm »

I am sorry, I am not really following what you're asking.  Can you mock it up in Photoshop or paint or something?
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Moe

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2019, 10:13:45 pm »

I'm pretty sure I know what you're trying to do. 

You want to choose a grouping, lets say Eric Clapton in my example.  And when you choose that have it show Eric Clapton, Cream, John Mayall & The Bluesbreakers and soundtracks.  Then choose one of those and then show all the albums that relate to the specific sub-group.

I've been trying to get it to work and I am failing.  Sorry, it may be possible but it's beyond my skill set.  Good luck.
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musicmahn

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2019, 10:30:27 am »

yes!
it's so simple in my head but for whatever reason putting it to words is a challenge lol.
that's exactly it though.  Choose that clapton group and then see in the middle panel all of the album artists that sit in that grouping.  from that point i'n not even looking to use the tree further - i would use the middle thumbnails to click a given album artist and it would then show me that sub-group of album thumbnails


well thank you so much for trying. like i said I'm quite close to what I dream of already.  I'm just going to try my hardest to see if this is possible because my goal is to use jriver for many years to come and not have to worry about this again.  music means the absolute world to me so this is a really sensitive and meaningful quest i am on right now :)
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Moe

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2019, 11:09:07 am »

You can achieve exactly what you want in Theater View, not sure if that works for you or not though.

To set it up, just copy this.



Give it a try and see if it works for you.  Should be touch screen friendly too.
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musicmahn

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2019, 03:48:33 pm »

well that would take some getting used to.  I think it achieves similar to what I have but it's missing the tree selection to the left which is what I'm trying to massage to my liking.  That or an A-Z jump bar. 

Hmmm I've only added a tiny test folder for all of this so far.  What happens in the middle panel once it's filled up with more thumbnails than what fits the screen?
I assume a scroll bar shows up somewhere? 
If so does this identify or "call out" the letters as you scroll down the alphabet?
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Moe

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2019, 04:00:24 pm »

In theater view, you could have an alphabet selector prior to Groupings.  Like

A B C D E F etc.
Groupings
Artist
Album

It would look something like this



Quote
Hmmm I've only added a tiny test folder for all of this so far.  What happens in the middle panel once it's filled up with more thumbnails than what fits the screen?
I assume a scroll bar shows up somewhere? 

When you keep saying middle panel, I am assuming you're referring to the audio section of the tree in the sidebar?  You will get a scroll bar, it won't call out the letters
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musicmahn

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2019, 04:21:49 pm »

that does look pretty cool.  i think if what I'm after doesn't work out I'll be taking a hard look at theater view to see if I like that better than my current setup.

by middle panel i just mean where all of the thumbnails show up.

What I would love to do is click a group to the left and see the album artists to the right.




In this pic it would be if I could select the "Marshy" grouping in the tree and see the thumbnails that you currently see.  As it stands to do this I had to choose a grouping thumbnail in that same panel as shown in the first screenshot of this thread (not from the tree).  Right now if I click that "Marshy" grouping in the tree what I get are all the album thumbnails.



Odd to me that the thumbnail panel is essentially not following the hierarchy that the tree panel is already showing:



Here you can see by expanding "Marshy" that the next tier in the tree after Grouping is Album Artist.  Yet when I click that group in the tree it's skipping that level and showing albums instead.  Why is the thumbnail panel not following the order already showing in the tree view?
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RoderickGI

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2019, 03:30:11 am »

I don't like them scattered all over the place and prefer not to alter Album Artist.

I think you should reconsider the highlighted part of that quote.

If you haven't, you should read about Album Artist and Album Artist and Album Artist (auto), and Multiple Artist Albums. There are a lot of other good articles in the Wiki and Forum on related topics. Use the Advanced Search, or if you want better search capability, use the custom Google Search on the Support page.

MC uses a very similar, but slightly different paradigm to many other audio applications.
The [Artist] field is a List type field, and can hold a semi-colon ";" delimited list of Artists.
The [Album Artist] field is what its name suggests it should be; One Artist who is the primary Artist for the Album. In true compilation Albums, the Album Artist should be "Multiple Artists", which MC handles automatically, unless you override that functionality for a particular Album.
MC then introduces the [Album Artist (auto)] field that looks at the [Artist] and [Album Artist] fields, decides which value holds primary Artist name, and stores that value. If the Album is a true compilation Album, MC sets this field to "(Multiple Artists)". This is a primary key for many searches, Views, and other functionality in MC.

I see from the first image in this post that you are using the notation of "feat." to add Artists to the list of Artists involved in a track (or Album) and you appear to be adding that notation into the [Album Artist] field rather than the [Artist] field. In MC the featured Artists should be listed in the [Artist] field, separated by a semi-colon as above, and a single Artist should be entered in the [Album Artist] field, when there is more than one Artist in the [Artist] field but you want one Artist to be primary for an Album. This then allows MC to search on all Artists involved in a track, individually, rather than search on a combination of Artists. Using the "feat." notation limits MC's search capabilities.

Anyway, back to what you are trying to achieve in your use of MC, assuming you are willing to change the way you use the [Album Artist] field, I would then ask;
What is your underlying intent of creating and using a "Grouping" as you have described?
I know you have selected a solution to your needs, based on your use of the [Album Artist] field, but I ask that you think clearly about the reasons you decided on that solution, and hence the underlying intent of it.

If your intent is to be able to find all tracks that a particular Artist is involved in, and show all Tracks in all Albums for any matches, then MC can do that. Just search on the [Artist] you are interested in, and then have MC expand the View to include the full Albums. Refer to the "Modifiers" section of the Search Language Wiki page, and read about ~a and ~expand. It probably wouldn't hurt to become familiar with the other MC languages in the Developer Zone in the Wiki as well. You seem capable of understanding all of that.

So implementing your required intent could still be done in more than one way, in Standard View or Theatre View, but the simple thing you would ask MC to do is "Find all tracks with Eric Clapton as an Artist, then expand the View to include full albums." I am not saying that is exactly what you are after, as you need to work out your underlying intent, but it could be as simple as that.

Or it could be more complex, such as "Find all tracks with Eric Clapton as an Artist, then show me who else he has collaborated with, let me select one or more, then expand the View to include full albums."

I think you could do that using a Panes View in MC's Standard View, with two Artist selections, such that once Eric Clapton is selected, MC would build a list of all other Artists involved with his tracks, allow you to select a second or multiple Artists, and then display full Albums that match that criteria. You would be getting into stuff like the Listbuild function in the Expression Language to do that. https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/List_Manipulation_Functions#ListBuild

Now I'm not saying that the last example is possible because I haven't tried it. I don't have suitable data in my test Library to test it anyway at the moment. I just think that using the [Album Artist] field to store information such as "Marshmello feat. Somebody" is tying one hand behind your back and making life more difficult for yourself.

PS: Yes, this probably means that you have a bunch of work to do cleaning up existing tags in files, moving featured Artists from the [Album Artist] field to the [Artist] field, and so on. MC has a bunch of tools to help with that process, once you work out exactly what you want to do, and how you want to do it.


TL;DR You are using the [Album Artist] field wrong.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

musicmahn

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2019, 12:23:56 pm »

First thank you much for the detailed reply.  This is surely something for me to think about, not exactly to search in the way you mention but about tagging in general.  Keep in mind these are just a few test albums as I haven't released jriver on my NAS yet which holds close to 2TB of flac. 

So while I can see how the "featuring" might be desirable to pull from the given examples I think that as a whole I'm still left with too many legitimate album artists that I wish to group up.  Using a bunch of different aliases would be the better example here.  In my "Aphex Twin" grouping, I'll want to see the Album Artists Aphex Twin, AFX, Bradley Strider, Caustic Window, Blue Calx, Power-Pill, Polygon Window (and goodness the list just keeps going).  In this case I really wouldn't want to alter the Album Artist field.

Anyway I'm just trying to squeeze this final feature out of MC and then I think I'm on the road to being completely satisfied.  Using searches isn't for me, I prefer the quick browse and having nothing to type out as I should soon be purchasing a tablet to run this off of.  I played around and read as much wiki stuff as I could again last night just banging my head on this.  Part of me thinks it's just not possible what I want, but at the same time I see MC recognizing the hierarchy I'm going for, just not in the layout/manner I would most prefer to operate.  The last two screenshots tell the story - In the first one I clicked a thumbnail and got the next level of my hierarchy - It's showing at the top of that tab "Groupings -> Marshy Artists".  Is there a way I can get that exact thumbnail view by clicking this same grouping in the tree to the left?

In the 2nd pic I'm even seeing the proper hierarchy in the tree - You see the grouping Marshy and expanding it shows the "Marshy" album artists.  Yet when I click that Marshy grouping....or anything for that matter in the tree - all I see are album thumbnails.  I think through my grouping view scheme there is no way to click something in the tree and see Album Artists at all.



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RoderickGI

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2019, 07:09:13 pm »

Here's a hint: Don't use the tree on the left. It intentionally works differently to the icons in the pane on the right. Clicking an item in the tree on the left will drop down to that level, and show only the details of the item you selected in the tree. It is effectively an exclusive search. This is easy to see using the Albums View. If you click on the default "Audio > Albums" View, all Albums in the Library will be shown. If you then click on the thumbnail (icon) for an Album (or double click if the bottom pane isn't open), the details of the tracks the Album contains will be shown in the bottom pane, but all other Album thumbnails will remain. If you then click on the same Album in the tree, only that Album and its Tracks will be shown. This is the way MC is designed to work. Yes, sometimes not what we want, but as designed.

Use the icon Views and tap the icon to drill down. It works as you wish, by the sound of it. As you will be running this on a tablet, tapping icons makes way more sense than using the tree.

But that is an aside. I think you can achieve what you want in MC, but you need to change your paradigm. Referring to your Marshy Group, the next level down isn't an Album Artist, it is a combination of Artists; "Marshmello", "Marshmello feat. Bastille", and "Marshmello feat. Pritam". I think while you are experimenting with MC you should try to set up your sample files in the way I suggested above, where the list of Artists involved in a track is stored in the [Artist] field, and if necessary, the real Album Artist is stored in the [Album Artist] field. Then MC would fill the [Album Artist (auto)] field correctly, and you could test some Views as possible solutions.

Given the "Aphex Twin" example you supplied, what I would do in MC is create a custom field, but not called [Grouping] because that field already exists, and you can't change the way it works, as it is a standard field. Let's say we call the field [Alias]. I would then make the [Alias] field a Relational field, so that for each value in the [Album Artist (auto)] field, only one value could exist in the [Alias] field. It would be a simple String type field, and given the way you might use it, I would given it a nice shorthand Search Keyword. Take a good look around the "Options > Library & Folders > Manage Library Fields" dialogue to see what I mean. Look at both Standard and User fields, using the dropdown list in the upper left corner of the dialogue. There is also a decent Wiki article on this: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Library_Fields

Now, with the [Artist], [Album Artist], and hence [Album Artist (auto)] fields set up correctly, the first time you enter a value into the [Alias] field for a track with a given value in the [Album Artist (auto)] field, all tracks with that [Album Artist (auto)] value will be assigned the same [Alias] value. That is, MC will populate the [Alias] field for all tracks with that [Album Artist (auto)] value. Then in future, as you add new albums to your Library, and set the tags correctly, MC will assign the correct [Alias] value, if it has been assigned previously.

So, for each of the values of the [Album Artist (auto)] field of "Aphex Twin", "AFX", "Bradley Strider", "Caustic Window", "Blue Calx", "Power-Pill", "Polygon Window", the [Alias] field would be set to "Aphex Twin".


You can then use MC Views to show all Albums for a given Alias, then drill down to individual Albums in that group. Note that MC doesn't show multilevel hierarchies without limitation, which is why the Panes view is used by so many, so I'm not positive that you will get exactly the View you want. But it would certainly be worth trying, and would make better use of MC functionality.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

Moe

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2019, 10:55:43 am »

I agree that panes view is what you should be focusing on as well.  You can increase the font size as well, which could help with fat fingers.

If I am understanding RoderickGI correctly, and I apologize if I got it wrong, I don't think that making the proposed Alias field relational is a good idea.  It's very possible that an album could fall under two groupings.  For instance, a band like the Yardbirds could fall under three different alias.  One for Jeff Beck, one for Eric Clapton and another for Jimmy Page.
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RoderickGI

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2019, 06:11:50 pm »

Sounds like you are on the correct track Moe. My knowledge of music is far less than my knowledge of software, so I don't know all the possible data situations that could arise. Hence my request to get to the underlying intent of what Musicmahn was trying to achieve. Note that Musicmahn's current Grouping solution would not account for the situation you described.

Interestingly, a relational field can be a List type field, which could mean that one [Album Artist (auto)] could have several Alias'. But the ability to set up a field that way may be an oversight, and the functionality may not actually work as expected.

But anyway, without knowing more about the possible variations, I should stop trying to describe a solution.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

musicmahn

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2019, 10:43:14 am »

Was very busy at work this week and wow this is so much to wrap my head around!  really this is like a brain exercise/puzzle right now lol

Here's a hint: Don't use the tree on the left. It intentionally works differently to the icons in the pane on the right.

Use the icon Views and tap the icon to drill down. It works as you wish, by the sound of it. As you will be running this on a tablet, tapping icons makes way more sense than using the tree.
  This is the synopsis I was hoping to avoid, but it's seeming like the reality I'll need to accept.  For me it would just be the quick jump to a grouping.  When I unleash all of my music forget artists and album artists, these groupings alone will so many to sift through and so rather than swiping swiping swiping all the way down to "Squarepusher" I would have that that list in smaller font in the tree that I could navigate quickly.  Once in that grouping the selections available are much less and navigating the thumbnails is perfect.  As I had dreamed an A-Z jumpbar would fit the bill here too so maybe that's a suggestion I can add when I have a minute.

The theater view screenshot that Moe posted with the A-Z icons would be sweet if I could use that in "regular view" and instead for my groupings.  I'm thinking that is not possible though?

The whole relational fields thing is something to consider.  I looked into it originally but everything seemed greyed out.  Perhaps I need to create my own new tag as suggested and that would make the feature available, I will see.  I don't think I would have too much conflict as suggested because I can ultimately make a determination and stick with it.  For Yardbirds I would stick that with Clapton.  I don't listen to Jeff Beck or Jimmy Page outside of Zeppelin, so the answer is easy.  Sometimes I may have to make a tough choice but I can live with that lol

I have to wonder if relational fields all that is going to be worth the effort though.  The groupings work fine and from there I would have to determine whether I manually add that group tag for every incoming album or instead create a huge list of expressions that automatically adds these tags.  Question on this - Is MC keeping it's own DB of tags if I desire?  I would rather not "physically" add these tags to my files if I could help it.

Using each of the artist names and auto album artist etc. i think isn't the route I want.  It would be a lot of effort and I think would cause problems with other apps etc i use to access my NAS and/or get added to different devices.  I need to keep things standardized in a way that works best for everything I've chosen to use.  You know, I'm just an older dude who gave up CDs a little over a year ago.  Getting my digital collection to give me the warm fuzzies the way a physical collection would isn't easy!  I suppose if the size of my collection was much smaller this would be easier to fix and maintain. 

To close this post is one more suggestion I may try to word nicely some time in the future.  It is the way Plex handles "collections" and how it helps to future proof upcoming imports.  Meaning i'm achieving the same thing here with my groupings - only in Plex I am adding a tag directly to an album artist, that only exists in the Plex db.  With this tag any time I add a Bradley Strider release going forward - it knows right from the start to put it into the Aphex Twin collection.  No special anything needs to be done other than setting that link one time - set it and forget it.
Oh and also the suggestion of an "inbox" where jriver holds new imports until you "release" them into your collection :)



While I continue to see if I can find any interface tweaks to my liking I need to really start hammering it's DLNA capabilities and ability to access my NAS.
I'm going to give it just one folder to see how that connectivity works.  DLNA so far has been a little weird with BubbleUPnP but ultimately works fine once i get some notes coming out of the speakers.  I'm praying I see no hiccups here and can ride jriver off into the sunset!

Thanks for everyone's advice - please continue to share thoughts if you have a minute.
Good stuff  :D



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Moe

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2019, 12:11:01 pm »

I think I have figured it out.

Check out these screenshots.

First, you get the letter selection in both the tree and in the main viewing area


I selected the letter E and I am presented with my groupings that start with the letter E


I then chose Eric Clapton and I am presented with all of his associated bands


I then chose Eric Clapton proper, to see his solo work and I am presented with this


Is that what you're looking for?
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musicmahn

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2019, 01:18:48 pm »

Haha yes I think that does it.
Pretty sure the tree will still be useless but this will give me a quick way to navigate the thumbs right from the start.  You know I might have even seen this at one point but had too much focus on getting the tree to work at the time.

So how'dya pull that off again?


Also....What is the album cover in "M"??
I remember seeing that on a torrent site back in the day and posting another album cover that was hauntingly similar :)
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Moe

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2019, 06:10:53 pm »

The M artist album is Mr. Bungle - Disco Volante (which is a great album)

Here is how I pulled it off.

Create a new view, I started with an empty view and chose a Categories view.

For the top level you want to add an expression.  This was the expression that I used and it could probably be optimized.  I used an existing expression and eliminated some stuff from it to get this one, so it may have extra, unneeded information.  Anyway, here is the expression, I called this expression "Alpha" as it gives you the alphabet.

Code: [Select]
IfElse(
IsEqual(ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ, Left(Clean([Grouping], 2), 1), 8), Left(Clean([Grouping], 2), 1),
1, Unassigned
)
 

Then add Grouping and then add Album Artist (auto).  It should look like this



and voilą!
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RoderickGI

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2019, 10:03:47 pm »

I have to wonder if relational fields all that is going to be worth the effort though.  The groupings work fine and from there I would have to determine whether I manually add that group tag for every incoming album or instead create a huge list of expressions that automatically adds these tags.  Question on this - Is MC keeping it's own DB of tags if I desire?  I would rather not "physically" add these tags to my files if I could help it.

One thing it is important to understand about MC is that it only knows about files. That is, media files, or in the case of audio, Tracks. What that means is that any information you want stored about a Track must be in a field in its Library, with a value associated with each individual file, and optionally stored as a tag in the file itself.

MC has no capability to create a separate table of "Grouping" in its Library. Each file must have one (or more depending on the field type) "Grouping" recorded against it in the appropriate field.

However, with all fields, MC knows what all existing values already exist, and can show a drop-down list of all existing values, for selection. A user can also start typing a field value and then display the drop-down list to get a filtered subset of values. So, manually selecting the appropriate Grouping for a Track, group of Tracks, Album, or group of Albums, is as easy as selecting those files or groups of files, then editing the field for all, and selecting a "Grouping" value either by scrolling a big list, or typing a partial match and selecting from a shorter list.


Using each of the artist names and auto album artist etc. i think isn't the route I want.  It would be a lot of effort and I think would cause problems with other apps etc i use to access my NAS and/or get added to different devices.  I need to keep things standardized in a way that works best for everything I've chosen to use.

I think your choice to include an Artist and featured Artists in the [Album Artist] field is very non-standard and will cause issues in other applications. But...

You know, I'm just an older dude who gave up CDs a little over a year ago.  Getting my digital collection to give me the warm fuzzies the way a physical collection would isn't easy!  I suppose if the size of my collection was much smaller this would be easier to fix and maintain.

Aren't we all.  ;)  I will repeat though that MC has tools to assist in cleaning up what you have in your library or file tags now. But this one is totally your decision.

To close this post is one more suggestion I may try to word nicely some time in the future.  It is the way Plex handles "collections" and how it helps to future proof upcoming imports.  Meaning I'm achieving the same thing here with my groupings - only in Plex I am adding a tag directly to an album artist, that only exists in the Plex db.  With this tag any time I add a Bradley Strider release going forward - it knows right from the start to put it into the Aphex Twin collection.  No special anything needs to be done other than setting that link one time - set it and forget it.

This is what the relational field I called [Alias] would do for you. Add the "Aphex Twin" "Grouping" to the "Bradley Strider" [Album Artist] once, [Album Artist (auto)] would be updated automatically by MC, and all tracks with an [Album Artist (auto)] of "Bradley Strider" will be put into the "Aphex Twin" "Grouping", or moved to that "Grouping" if you changed your mind in the future. No assigning a "Grouping" to new imports. Just set the [Album Artist] correctly, and the [Alias] would be set correctly.

Oh and also the suggestion of an "inbox" where jriver holds new imports until you "release" them into your collection :)

You would probably be able to find some discussion about how people achieve that in the forum. Different people handle it differently, depending on how much automation they want.  But there is no specific functionality built to do that.

Good discussion!

Moe you have done great work!!!  8)
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

musicmahn

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2019, 04:04:16 pm »

oh yes I finally got the tablet going sync'd to my PC and implemented the expression above

it's all coming together :)
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musicmahn

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2019, 05:08:51 pm »

Moe - Thank you again for that little alpha expression it's suiting me perfect :)
Question - Can you add numerical to that same alpha list? 
I have two artists that start with a number and they sit in "Unassigned" due to not being Alpha

Also, when I then drill into a letter and get to the groupings i've set up by using that tag, I see the shuffle of album covers when I scroll over each one.
Could I instead set up a static picture to use, or perhaps similar to how I can "Grab Artist from LastFM"??


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Moe

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2019, 10:37:25 am »

For your Groupings that start with a number replace this

Code: [Select]
IfElse(
IsEqual(ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ, Left(Clean([Grouping], 2), 1), 8), Left(Clean([Grouping], 2), 1),
1, Unassigned
)

With this

Code: [Select]
IfElse(
   regex(Left(Clean([Grouping], 2), 1), /#^([A-Z])#/, 1),  FixCase([R1], 3),
   1, 0-9 etc.
)

The above will put anything that doesn't begin with a letter in 0-9 etc.  Even things that aren't in a group.  If you want to keep Unassigned for things that aren't in a group use this expression.

Code: [Select]
IfElse(
   regex(Left(Clean([Grouping], 2), 1), /#^([A-Z0-9])#/, 1),  FixCase([R1], 3),
   1,Unassigned)

As to the second part of your question, I don't think it's possible, but I could be wrong.
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musicmahn

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2019, 01:46:15 pm »

ok so i definitely prefer the last one as this still puts all of my newest imports into that "Unassigned" folder which allows me to check tags/artwork before "releasing" them to the groupings

with that said the expression worked for the most part but had a couple not sitting where they should so that got me nervous and i reverted to the old setting lol

what it did was in the numerical section had a few tracks where the artist name was a number, despite being tagged with a grouping and album artist that starts with a letter.  since it's not honoring the grouping tag 100% i just don't want to risk things falling out of place like that.  Looking at what you wrote there though is is the fix as simple as replacing "artist" with "grouping"??
Just strange that it seemed to honor my groupings for the most part despite it saying artist?  idk, this is like code to me so i have no idea what i'm looking at :)
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Moe

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2019, 02:36:54 pm »

That's exactly the problem. I don't use "Grouping" so I was using Artist for testing, forgot to revert it when I posted it.
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musicmahn

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Re: Newbie questions
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2019, 05:46:58 pm »

Looks to be perfect - Cheers mate!!! :D :D :D
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