Topic: MP3 Gain (Read 4307 times)

NY40Male · « **on:** December 30, 2002, 03:21:53 pm »

Any Good?
Before I Try It I Thought I'd Ask

KingSparta · « **Reply #1 on:** December 30, 2002, 04:36:36 pm »

Yes

I Thought I Would Tell You Before You Did Not Try It.

'I Got My Mojo Working (And I'm Going To Try It Out On You) 'Charted At 51 In 1966

Listening to: 'I Got My Mojo Working (And I'm Going To Try It Out On You)' from 'The Best Of Jimmy Smith' by 'Jimmy Smith' on Media Jukebox

fluffybunny · « **Reply #2 on:** December 30, 2002, 05:47:36 pm »

It works like a charm!

FB

NY40Male · « **Reply #3 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:14:29 pm »

It Defaults To 89?...Is This A Good Setting?

NY40Male · « **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:20:58 pm »

Explain "Clipping" For Us Please That Don't Understand What The Manual Is Talking About
Ummm Thanks

KingSparta · « **Reply #5 on:** December 31, 2002, 04:14:18 am »

>> Explain "Clipping" For Us Please That Don't
>> Understand What The Manual Is Talking About
it's a football term

shAf · « **Reply #6 on:** December 31, 2002, 06:46:44 am »

Quote

It Defaults To 89?...Is This A Good Setting?

It would seem to be a "common" setting, but it is louder than what MJ8's own auto-gain defaults to, which is 83db (... my reply would ask that MJ up theirs from 83 to 89db, or add the option ...)

xen-uno · « **Reply #7 on:** December 31, 2002, 07:09:48 am »

A 16 bit sound file can have values anywhere from -32768 to +32768 (for a total range of 2¹⁶ = 65536). Any value NOT in between +/- 32768 will be clipped and thrown out. So the pos and/or neg peaks of a nice sine wave are cut off....resulting in a something that looks like a square wave and has rotten sound on playback.

10^-27

rocketsauce · « **Reply #8 on:** December 31, 2002, 03:13:29 pm »

Quote

It would seem to be a "common" setting, but it is louder than what MJ8's own auto-gain defaults to, which is 83db (... my reply would ask that MJ up theirs from 83 to 89db, or add the option ...

The 83dB vs 89DB issue was discussed several months ago here and the MJ developers decided to go with 83dB since that is what is in the original Replay Gain specs.

Now, if my logic is working correctly, you can go into MJ's Replay Gain DSP and under the Adjustment drop down list, choose Fixed and then change the setting to +6.0 dB. So, if you've analyzed your files with MJ to 83dB, this should adjust the output to 89dB.

Rob

gonzalo · « **Reply #9 on:** December 31, 2002, 03:42:17 pm »

IMHO , what's important is to have a standard reference.
If it is 83 or 89 or 90 is not important. You can correct that with a global setting.

The music industry has no volume reference standard for masterizing CDs.

The movie industry has standarized on 83 db (SMPTE). So the Replay Gain specs were done using 83 db.

I believe its a good thing that MJ developers chose to comply with the spec.

Gonzalo

zevele10 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 01, 2003, 08:14:29 am »

If you speak about the MP3Gain program ,keep in mind this:
Your song is changed FOR EVER to the 'Gain'.
You lost for good the original format.

Beside it ,this program works very fine.

Why don't you use the replay-gain in MJ or MC?
Like it you get the 'normalisation' when you want it.
If you play the full album ,you can have the original sound .
The same if you burn

gonzalo · « **Reply #11 on:** January 01, 2003, 09:39:51 am »

The only problem I see is that Replay Gain is not implemented by all players. Particularly, handheld mp3 players do not have RG.

So , if I want to transfer my songs to my iPOD , the only solution I have (as of today) is to modify the files with something like MP3Gain.

One more thing : RG specs define the algorithms , but does not define where to store the info in the file.
So , even if 2 programs support RG , chances are that they are incompatible beacuse they use different frames in the TAG to store the info.

fluffybunny · « **Reply #12 on:** January 01, 2003, 06:39:41 pm »

"Your song is changed FOR EVER to the 'Gain'. You lost for good the original format."

This is not really true. You can change the gain back to its original value with no loss to the mp3 file (the change acts upon a digital value - changing it back renders it identical to the original).

Of course, you would need to keep a record of every track's original value, but why bother? I'd much rather have my whole collection at a similar perceived loudness.

I can understand with certain complete albums (eg Pink Floyd or full classical works) you might want to maintain the relative loudness between tracks, but mp3gain lets you do this pretty easily and still set an overall level so that the album fits in with the rest of your albums.

Otherwise, just create a separate folder for those albums and don't adjust the gain at all.

BTW, don't think that most pop / rock albums have any sort of integrity when it comes to relative loudness between tracks - they don't. Most commercial producers just crank it up to 11 and let the compressors sort it out.

shAf · « **Reply #13 on:** January 02, 2003, 04:15:14 am »

Quote

Now, if my logic is working correctly, you can go into MJ's Replay Gain DSP and under the Adjustment drop down list, choose Fixed and then change the setting to +6.0 dB. So, if you've analyzed your files with MJ to 83dB, this should adjust the output to 89dB. Rob

A quick glance finds no fixed ... but wouldn't global imply all tunes would be played with +6db ?

rocketsauce · « **Reply #14 on:** January 02, 2003, 10:06:43 am »

Ooops, the Fixed option is in MC9. In MJ8, setting global to +6.0 dB should do the trick.

Rob

shAf · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2003, 10:05:27 am »

Quote

IMHO, what's important is to have a standard reference. If it is 83 or 89 or 90 is not important. You can correct that with a global setting.

I am not disagreeing with 83db so much, as I'm having a difficult time finding that it exists. For example ... I have analyzed a representative sample of my own RIPs and those of others, and what's available for download ... and I've yet to come across any MP3 close to 83db ... most common is low 90's.

Even web radio plays louder than MP3's I have tagged with 83db, and are instead compareable to 90db. Correct me if I'm wrong ... but given my observations and MJ8's method, I have to select every track in my library, and tag them with play at 83db ... as opposed to selecting a few and tagging them to play as loud as the rest of them.

Sooo ... after experimenting, how do I untag an MP3 which has been tagged for 83db with MJ8??? And, is the flexibility I want in MJ9???

rocketsauce · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2003, 01:27:26 pm »

Quote

I have to select every track in my library, and tag them with play at 83db ... as opposed to selecting a few and tagging them to play as loud as the rest of them.

Correct. When analyzing files with Replay Gain in MJ/MC, you are unable to choose a target gain value. But, remember that in the global settings of the RG DSP you can change the output by up to +/- 12dB, IIRC. I have mine set at +6dB.

Quote

after experimenting, how do I untag an MP3 which has been tagged for 83db with MJ8

I don't think there is a way to "un-analyze" files in MJ/MC (unless your using MPC...MJ/MC seems to do a good job of losing the gain tags on my MPCs every so often

). I guess you could just uncheck the option for using RG in the DSP Studio.

Rob

shAf · « **Reply #17 on:** January 23, 2003, 01:50:29 am »

Quote

Correct. When analyzing files with Replay Gain in MJ/MC, you are unable to choose a target gain value. But, remember that in the global settings of the RG DSP you can change the output by up to +/- 12dB, IIRC. I have mine set at +6dB.

According to the help file, this will add the global setting to all playback ... which means I have to analyze the gain for all my files ... reduce them to 83db so they are not louder than they are already.

How long does it take to analyze 10,000 tracks??? (... just being facetious ...<g>...)

MachineHead · « **Reply #18 on:** January 23, 2003, 02:30:56 am »

Quote

I guess you could just uncheck the option for using RG in the DSP Studio.

I never use it anymore. Always unchecked. Have DFX installed and it seems to have a way of volume levelling by itself.

The thing about MJ and RG is it internal to MJ's database. It does not mess with the files themselves. Made a huge mistake a while back and MP3Gain(ed) about 1500 files. Set to about 90db. Now the files when burned as data (mp3) discs' are awful to listen to on the portable. Never fails that there are a few that are quiet (MP3Gained) and the rest - LOUD. So I'll turn up the volume on the quiet ones and the next track will blow the doors off of the car.

Lesson: If you're gonna do it, do it to all the files. Or do not do it at all. Which I think is the way I'll go from now on. MP3Gain could be a useful tool, but it seems that for playback on the computer (*stereo*) it is just as easy to do Global adjustments (*turn the volume up*) vs. files that are modified and unable to change back without extensive record keeping. (Note: used old version of MP3Gain that did not keep a log of files modified.)

rocketsauce · « **Reply #19 on:** January 23, 2003, 02:53:15 am »

Quote

...which means I have to analyze the gain for all my files...

There are specs that define what RG should do, but unfortunately there is no agreed on standard for how it's implemented. This is the method that MJs developers felt worked best in their application.

Quote

...reduce them to 83db so they are not louder than they are already.

Well, the purpose of Replay Gain is not to make files louder, it's to make a group of files the same loudness. If you achieve this goal by raising the gain to match the loudest files, you also run the risk of introducing clipping. Also, as mentioned in another post, the movie industry was already using the 83dB target, so that's what was used in the original RG specs.

And, at least with MJ you're only saving the gain info to the tags (like Vorbisgain and Replay Gain for MPC) rather than permanently altering the files (like MP3gain) and possibly ruining them by accidentally choosing too high of a gain setting. If you want to play them at their original level you can just disable the RG DSP.

Rob

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Author Topic: MP3 Gain (Read 4307 times)

NY40Male

NY40Male

NY40Male

zevele10

MachineHead