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[goatherder]

My one and only feature request:

- A modern UX, with the ability to be used like a modern desktop application in the vein of e.g. Explorer, that embraces actually modern hardware


For me, given what I do with MC it has been feature-complete for years. The BIGGEST issue for me however has been the visuals and UX, especially since the 2012-ish timeframe.

My reason for using MC on my PC's is to have a powerful library manager and playback setup wherever I happen to be. Again, feature wise MC delivers on that front. However despite upgrading software over the years the UX hasn't changed - and the move to expand to other last-gen OS's like OSX and Linux instead of fully taking advantage of Windows 8 onwards just seems to have served as an excuse to rehash the same UX over and over again, and there's been no move forwards to embrace modern convertible OS usage.

I still can't reliably operate any major MC control by ad hoc touch using any of my current hardware: Surface Book 2, Surface Pro, Lenovo X1 Yoga, etc (And recent versions of MC doesn't appear to run on the Surface Go at all for some reason). Not even listboxes. It even struggles with HiDPI from what I can see when trying to use it on my >4K monitors.

Obviously you are not there prodding at every control, but things like moving sliders are a very natural action on a modern laptop - but on MC it's a supremely dicey prospect in a way that it isn't on any major current, actively developed Windows desktop application.

I figure things are going to get even more painful when my Surface Pro X turns up and if 32-bit MC works on it.

It hasn't happened in 6 years so I very much doubt it'll ever happen, but it doesn't hurt to ask so that I'm not constantly looking for something else that does some of what MC does but is actually modern.

[JimH]

My one and only feature request:

- A modern UX, with the ability to be used like a modern desktop application in the vein of e.g. Explorer, that embraces actually modern hardware


For me, given what I do with MC it has been feature-complete for years. The BIGGEST issue for me however has been the visuals and UX, especially since the 2012-ish timeframe.

My reason for using MC on my PC's is to have a powerful library manager and playback setup wherever I happen to be. Again, feature wise MC delivers on that front. However despite upgrading software over the years the UX hasn't changed - and the move to expand to other last-gen OS's like OSX and Linux instead of fully taking advantage of Windows 8 onwards just seems to have served as an excuse to rehash the same UX over and over again, and there's been no move forwards to embrace modern convertible OS usage.

I still can't reliably operate any major MC control by ad hoc touch using any of my current hardware: Surface Book 2, Surface Pro, Lenovo X1 Yoga, etc (And recent versions of MC doesn't appear to run on the Surface Go at all for some reason). Not even listboxes. It even struggles with HiDPI from what I can see when trying to use it on my >4K monitors.

Obviously you are not there prodding at every control, but things like moving sliders are a very natural action on a modern laptop - but on MC it's a supremely dicey prospect in a way that it isn't on any major current, actively developed Windows desktop application.

I figure things are going to get even more painful when my Surface Pro X turns up and if 32-bit MC works on it.

It hasn't happened in 6 years so I very much doubt it'll ever happen, but it doesn't hurt to ask so that I'm not constantly looking for something else that does some of what MC does but is actually modern.

That's a long description of your view of a problem, but it lacks any specific suggestions for the UI.

For touch screen, Panel might work.

[goatherder]

That's a long description of your view of a problem, but it lacks any specific suggestions for the UI.

For touch screen, Panel might work.

There's plenty of contextual info in that post - MC Windows is an incredibly old-school app underneath.

I mean even down to the very basics: What happens when you swipe on a list? Currently it'll click on whatever you happen to put your finger on. I'm kind of amazed I have to explain this in 2019... 2013, when I was making the same complaints, I can understand to a degree but not now. Every other actively developed desktop program I use- even equally old-school looking apps like BlueBeam Revu - are aware.

[Eisenhart]

Plan A: The UI is dated and is begging for a makeover.  Instead of in-house development, consider outsourcing the UI work to a firm such as The Skins Factory.  Start with three skins: Light, grey, and dark.  Perhaps the colors can be customized by the user via slider controls.

If not in the budget, Plan B:  An Option to disable left-hand panel (not hide), thereby relegating into context menu, tab, or pop-up.  It could be a button "Tree", "Navigation", or whatever.  If using context-like menu it could be something like a sticky where the pop-up stays visible until "closed".  This would also apply to Tagging (with the option to detach).

Thanks

[Awesome Donkey]

Regarding skins, try the Modern Cards skins which have a modern look and feel. There's already light, grey and dark editions of the Modern Cards skins.

[goatherder]

Regarding skins, try the Modern Cards skins which have a modern look and feel. There's already light, grey and dark editions of the Modern Cards skins.

Problem is that skins don't do anything to modify the user interface behaviour. It's not a skin problem, it's deeper than that. The current scope of skins doesn't do anything to alter the UX to a modern look, let alone the actual usage experience. Modern Cards looks just like MC, it's barely distinguishable from a copy of MC ten years ago with Purity and doesn't bring anything actually new to the table.

My issues with touch meshes with this problem - MC behaves exactly like Windows XP targeted applications did in this respect that I had lots of issues with using on e.g. the X61 Tablet 10+ years ago.

Again, back then I could have said "it's super niche, OK" and I did - but with Surface now, this is mainstream.

In daily use I don't have *any* applications like this anymore.

[JimH]

Just so you know  ...
Your UX comments are only annoying unless you can define "modern".

[DJLegba]

Your UX comments are only annoying unless you can define "modern".

I am not bothered by the look or UX of MC, but I'm an old guy. However, even I know that a modern UX supports touch controls and doesn't rely on things like right-clicks. Where a right-click brings up a context-sensitive dialog, a modern UX has a meatball or kebab control that opens a menu of options. Top menus are replaced with something like a hamburger or kebab (because menu bars that don't take up too much screen real estate are really difficult to use accurately with a finger). Right now there are some controls (or information) that appear only when you hover over an area with the mouse - which doesn't work when the control is with a finger instead of a mouse. So you replace the hover event with a meatball control. Actions that are commonly used (such as Play, or Add to Playlist) are sometimes replaced with icons instead of menu items that appear when the image is hovered over or right-clicked. A modern UX generally avoids modal dialog boxes - and especially multi-paged modal dialogs. I could go on, but that should be a good enough start to the definition of "modern" (at least from the perspective of someone well over 50).

[JimH]

I like old guys.

We have some of this in Panel.

It seems, in general, most appropriate for Panel, JRemote, Gizmo, etc.  They could be considered shells for devices that have no mouse or keyboard.  JRiver for Android, too.  It is the MC engine but the UI is designed for touch.

Overhauling MC itself would be a ton of work and would probably irritate a few people.

[Hendrik]

Honestly what you call a "modern UI/UX" and the breadth and depth of functionality in Media Center just don't fit together.
Everytime I see an application receive a "modern UI overhaul", I see functions being taken away, because "modern" means simpler, and thus you get rid of stuff.

I don't think we would have wide support if we made MC Standard View modern/"simpler" by removing features in the process. Unfortunately that may mean it will never be perfect for touch control in Standard View. But when there is directly conflicting design goals, you can't fullfill all goals.

[goatherder]

Everytime I see an application receive a "modern UI overhaul", I see functions being taken away, because "modern" means simpler, and thus you get rid of stuff.

I invite you to compare the current Explorer.exe vs Explorer in XP. See, I don't even need to get to applications (and again, most actively developed desktop applications now take this into account).

Modern in the context of productivity in 2019 doesn't mean "for the iPad". I guess the reason most here don't appear to understand this is because you're hanging onto clapped out legacy hardware.

[Hendrik]

I invite you to compare the current Explorer.exe vs Explorer in XP.

I invite you to find a comparison that actually has as much feature complexity and depth as Media Center, instead of a very simplistic file browser.

Modern in the context of productivity in 2019 doesn't mean "for the iPad".

And yet you equate "modern" with the Surface, which is just another tablet-sized device (or tablet+ if you want, 13" laptop is still tiny). In such a space-constrained environment the point about having to strip away functionality to make it usable stands even more.

A overhaul of the UI that you would call modern is just not going to happen anytime soon, sorry. We have alternate interfaces that may be suitable to touch screen use, and we're open about hearing suggestions to improve those.

[goatherder]

I invite you to find a comparison that actually has as much feature complexity and depth as Media Center, instead of a very simplistic file browser.

And even then that argument falls apart. We're talking about the absolute basics - very simplistic aspects here in terms of long and potentially multi-column'd list navigation. For that, Explorer alone is an excellent illustration of the incredibly dated UX of MC.

And yet you equate "modern" with the Surface, which is just another tablet-sized device (or tablet+ if you want, 13" laptop is still tiny). In such a space-constrained environment the point about having to strip away functionality to make it usable stands even more.

Last time I checked, my Surface Studio isn't a 13" laptop for starters. Neither is my 15-inch Book 2, which has enough room to plunk my Dials onto and do stuff, let alone a finger or two. Not even mentioning that fact that it is absolutely possible to intract in a modern manner with desktop apps on my Surface Pro, Lenovo X1 Yoga / Tablet, etc - while the same apps allow me to be as effective from a non-touch UX aspect on my Lenovo P920's and HP Z8's. The 10-inch Go is, sure, somewhat irrelevant - and it is actually so, since recent versions of MC doesn't appear to want run on either of mine for some reason.

Of course, all this actual experience is dependent on you actually having modern hardware and non old-guy sausage fingers. I believe I can accurately assume from your writing that you don't fall into either camp. Perhaps maybe if you educated yourself instead of looking to refute someone with experience when you clearly don't, our exchange might be different.

[Awesome Donkey]

I'm thinking out loud here, so to speak.

All things considered, does having a "modern UI" really matter that much? I'm of the mind that MC already looks good enough with the Modern Cards skins on both Windows 10 and macOS and most Linux distros. Honestly I would much rather have software to function as expected and just work, which it does. Trying to redo the UI would take a long time to do - I believe it was mentioned it'd take at least a year to a year and a half to do!

That said... I do agree touch support could be improved in MC right now with the current skins. On every single one of them on a Windows tablet trying to scroll through panes with your finger is a bit of a pain (no pun intended) and I always end up having to use the on-screen touchpad feature of Windows 10 to navigate. I can't really think of any good suggestions on how to improve this though, except for maybe have MC "know" when trying to scroll up and down over the scrollbars.

Having an option in skins to set and have a hamburger menu to replace the File/Edit/View/Player/Tools/Help menus like modern web browsers do now is kinda intriguing as well. If that was supported, I'd actually try to integrate it into my Modern Cards skin forks and create a hamburger menu button. I'd probably place it on the right side of MC under the search bar.

EDIT: Here, I made a little mock up using the Modern Cards: White Edition skin with the menus removed, a hamburger menu added to replace the menus under the search bar and the Previous/Play/Pause/Stop/Next buttons raised up. The obvious problem would be maintaining a "reverse compatibility" with an option to display menus instead of a hamburger menu, of course. I can also see how using a hamburger menu could be quite confusing for some users too. It looks okay I guess, but perhaps it's not my cup of tea personally.

[mattkhan]

A touch friendly MC UI equates to a completely new UI so I think we can guess at the chances of that happening

How would you interact with it via touch though? For me, the UI is essentially a spreadsheet and I can't imagine how touch is relevant there. Perhaps others use it differently though.

[lepa]

Thankfully MC's standard view is not designed for touch screen usage

[syndromeofadown]

Your UX comments are only annoying unless you can define "modern".

Ribbons are modern. All software I use in my profession have moved to ribbons. They take up space on the screen, make users learn symbols instead of using good ol words, and are so crammed full that they require more clicks than the menu they replaced. They are fine once you get used to them but it's debatable if they are better.

Does someone have an example of a touch friendly interface that's similar to MC?

A touch friendly MC UI equates to a completely new UI so I think we can guess at the chances of that happening

I disagree.
Look at Windows File Explorer, in a recent Windows 10 version, as an example of a good touchscreen implementation.

When dealing with lists of files and folders:
Left mouse click selects items.
Left click and then drag to move files/folders
Right mouse click opens up right click menu.
There's no scrolling with the clicks, you need to use scroll wheel.

If using touch:
Tap to select items.
Tap, hold, then drag to move files/folders.
Tap and hold to bring up right click menu.
To scroll just drag your finger around.

To scroll just drag your finger around.

This is where MC needs to change. When I drag my finger in MC it drags whatever I touched as apposed to scrolling.
Fix/change this and MC will be touchscreen friendly.

Windows on screen keyboard works great and has Select All, Copy, Past, etc when you hit Ctrl.

I currently use MO 4Media as a touchscreen interface for MC. It works very well. I hope very much that it will continue to be released for Windows. I do try Panel from time to time and it's improving continuously. The problem I have with it is dealing with the extremely large number of files I always have. Loading Artist images for 6000 artists takes too long (latest version is actually pretty good). My suggested solution to this as follows:
For all remotes add the option for text only Artist/Album Artist views. Let users browse an image free list, after an artist is selected, show the Artist image and album art (or whatever the next field you are using is).

[Absinthe]

Problem is that skins don't do anything to modify the user interface behaviour. It's not a skin problem, it's deeper than that...

My issues with touch meshes with this problem - MC behaves exactly like Windows XP targeted applications did in this respect that I had lots of issues with using on e.g. the X61 Tablet 10+ years ago...

Again, back then I could have said "it's super niche, OK" and I did - but with Surface now, this is mainstream.

In daily use I don't have *any* applications like this anymore...

Like some of the other "older guys" on here I'm struggling by your thoughts here.  I have used a Surface and Surface Pro for maybe five years now and love them, but its their utilitarian nature that appeal to me.  The're compact, powerful, frugal with battery usage and the touchscreen makes them more capable than a Galaxy tablet and it leaves the iPad/iPad Pro in the dust.  However, due to the extremely small screen, I don't often use it for playing music.  I'd use it at work playing a local copy of my library off an SD card slipped in the back and it was OK.  The widgets, sliders and scroll bars were so tiny that using it touch mode was frustrating; so much so I just purchased a Bluetooth mouse and tossed in my computer go-bag for these issues.  For JRiver, these can be fixed with a different skin so I'm confused when you say its deeper than a skin problem.  In the same vein, I could say that most (if not all) of the MS Office Suite has the same issue with touchscreen use although the visual is pretty modern as far as office utilities go.  Can you give me an example of software you consider modern and in touch with the more modern physical interfaces?

[mattkhan]

Look at Windows File Explorer, in a recent Windows 10 version, as an example of a good touchscreen implementation.

do you mean good as in functions correctly or good as in a enjoyable/productive interface? for me that is an example of the former not the latter so, from that point of view, fixing this in MC would be a poor use of scarce engineering time. Obviously this is completely subjective though so no doubt it is frustrating if you want to use it like that.

[syndromeofadown]

do you mean good as in functions correctly or good as in a enjoyable/productive interface? for me that is an example of the former not the latter so, from that point of view, fixing this in MC would be a poor use of scarce engineering time. Obviously this is completely subjective though so no doubt it is frustrating if you want to use it like that.

I would say that functions correctly equals productive. I would also say enjoyable since it doesn't piss me me off.
It's subjective indeed. I use Microsoft Surfaces a lot so I switch between mouse and keyboard to touch quite frequently. My work laptop is also my mp3 player for my car (MC will be confirmed touch friendly when I feel completely safe using MC while driving). I like to use the same interface for touch as non-touch, Windows 10 I believe accomplishes this. I can use the same interface on an 8 inch tablet as I use on a massive TV screen. Having a separate interface for touch was attempted and failed with Windows 8. Other examples of trying to have keyboard mouse and touch are the extremely awkward Chromebooks and whatever Samsung and Google are doing with their new tablets that have keyboards. Windows has been refining their touch since 2012. I think they have finally got it right and they set the bar.

[Absinthe]

Of course, all this actual experience is dependent on you actually having modern hardware and non old-guy sausage fingers. I believe I can accurately assume from your writing that you don't fall into either camp. Perhaps maybe if you educated yourself instead of looking to refute someone with experience when you clearly don't, our exchange might be different.

Goat,
I'm willing to entertain a discussion on this subject but the more you resort to this crap, the less likely I'm going to regard you as someone with something worthy to say, tread lightly.  There was no insult in Hendrick's reply but I'm sure both he and I (and others) are trying to understand your perspective

[AndrewFG]

I think the OP has a very valid point concerning scrolling: currently in MC you need to find a scroll bar and it’s “handle” and move that; whereas in modern UIs you scroll by dragging within the respective pane itself; the scroll speed depends on the “velocity” of the movement; and the scroll action has a certain inertia to keep rolling once you lift your finger, and to “brake” when you reapply the finger.

I also think he has a point concerning zooming; in many of MCs windows you can change the thumbnail size by means of a slider; but this could also be done by pinching.

[AndrewFG]

PS you could also consider swipe right to add a track to playing now, or swipe left to remove it.

PPS and holding a finger down would bring up the right click context menu.

[audioriver]

Please don't ever turn MC into a "modern app". Ugh.

[goatherder]

Goat,
I'm willing to entertain a discussion on this subject but the more you resort to this crap, the less likely I'm going to regard you as someone with something worthy to say, tread lightly.  There was no insult in Hendrick's reply but I'm sure both he and I (and others) are trying to understand your perspective

I guess having to explain the perspective is what I'm tiring of in 2019.

I think some of the basics have been reiterated by other users regarding navigating lists in MC for starters. I mean, even just that would be a huge improvement - but I'm assuming curing that will mean that MC has to differentiate between touch and tap, which should actually resolve other interaction issues. To clarify, I'm not even mentioning stuff like gestures - I am referring to basic interaction elements you'll, as I again said, find in Explorer in Windows 10.

[RoderickGI]

I guess having to explain the perspective is what I'm tiring of in 2019.

That doesn't mean you have to start Ad Hominem attacks and start insulting older users by implying "non-superannuated Windows users" know so much better, as you did in the other post.

There have been good solid cases, and opinions, on both sides of the "modernisation" discussion. In my opinion, Microsoft broke Windows Explorer when they modernised the interface, and only "fixed" it when they added back functions that were in the previous version, such as right-clicking. The Office suite has been pretty much broken since they went to the ribbon paradigm, making it much harder for a power user to get things done.

A touch paradigm doesn't allow for hovering over an item, or right-clicking on an item to access a menu, at least not without making all elements bigger, which means removing other elements. Both of those functions provide a more detailed level of control in a specific context, such as for a specific file or group of files, which I believe is required for an application such as MC.

If you want an App with a touch paradigm, JRemote, MO 4Media, and Panel are the way to go, because touch means a simplified App, and those fit the bill. I would suggest that you champion improvements in Panel that give you the functionality and level of control that you want. Frankly, I think Panel could use a champion and improvement. Particularly when used on a tablet or larger touch screen.

The MC Standard View is a workhorse interface, capable of detailed maintenance work with fine control, and actions that are context-sensitive. It will never be a good candidate for touch control. Possibly the scrolling issue could be accommodated though.

[goatherder]

The Office suite has been pretty much broken since they went to the ribbon paradigm, making it much harder for a power user to get things done.

I work at a fund - and I think it's fairly safe to say I'm an Excel "power user". I have zero issues with the ribbon'd Excel on my non-touch workstations, as well as touch tablets / convertibles - on which the adaptive interface works very well. I do notice some less mentally flexible individuals do indeed have issues with any changes to the Excel user experience - something that they apparently expect never, ever to change.

I also live in Outlook. On which I can scroll by touch just fine without making my finger extra pointy and heading to the scroll bar by the way, as I should be able to in this day and age.

[RoderickGI]

I do notice some less mentally flexible individuals do indeed have issues with any changes...

There you go again. While I understand that you might be frustrated with the issue and the perspective of some users, it seems to be you that can't learn. Why do you need to include offhand insults?

Why don't you look to the positives and comment on them? Why don't you take up the challenge and champion improvement in Panel if this is so important to you?

I think JRiver is listening, but they haven't heard much that they can do economically and within a reasonable time frame.


Do you write Excel macros using touch tablets/convertibles? If not, why not? It would be possible, but not as productive on a touch tablet with an on-screen keyboard. This is the same issue as using MC Standard View to do detailed maintenance functions.

[goatherder]

There you go again. While I understand that you might be frustrated with the issue and the perspective of some users, it seems to be you that can't learn. Why do you need to include offhand insults?

Because being dismissive based on your limited experience is something that comes from a *learned* individual? The street flows both ways, dude.

Why don't you look to the positives and comment on them?

Because what's wrong is pretty cut & dried.

Why don't you take up the challenge and champion improvement in Panel if this is so important to you?

If I want a decent simplified interface to my media I'll just point Plex to it as I do now, and it also manages not to look like it's from Y2K.

I think JRiver is listening, but they haven't heard much that they can do economically and within a reasonable time frame.

You know, the more I look into it - especially combined with the MC issues with other OS's - the more I think they realise it requires a fundamental rewrite of the fatally old-shool present codebase of MC. But if they're considering that at some time - and they should be IMO - it definitely should be something they think about, in terms of having less of a separation between the UX elements of MC and the UX layer of each respective OS.

Do you write Excel macros using touch tablets/convertibles? If not, why not? It would be possible, but not as productive on a touch tablet with an on-screen keyboard. This is the same issue as using MC Standard View to do detailed maintenance functions.

I certainly make changes to my models, and that is just as much the point - most of y'all who can't see this, again relatively obvious in 2019, point is that touch use isn't an either/or: I don't lose 100 IQ points and turn into an iPad user the moment I prod the screen. It is just another native way of interaction in Windows that's a regular option for picking the best way to intract with - just as much as keyboard shortcuts are. If people ask for keyboard shortcuts, do you start your dismissive comment with "why would we need a command line interface in MC?" (though actually, PowerShell integration would be pretty cool).

[mattkhan]

There is certainly something to be said for giving some screen real estate to a context sensitive toolbar (e.g. ribbon interface) vs the context menus (which are often deeply nested and/or massive scrolling lists) MC currently uses. I find this approach is not nice to use and plays badly with both screen resolution and cursor position.

An example of each aspect:

nesting = "send to > playlist" is a particularly egregious example as playlists can be organised into a tree structure and the menu nested will naturally honour that nesting
long scrolling lists = selecting an attribute to add as a new column to a worksheet, the list is massive and is not searchable

somewhat ironically the latter would benefit from some grouping (aka nested menus in the current impl) just as the tag window breaks attributes into groups

[RoderickGI]

Because being dismissive based on your limited experience is something that comes from a *learned* individual? The street flows both ways, dude.

Dude, you should read what you write, and look in the mirror.

There is a lot that could be improved in the MC interfaces, UI and UX, but your approach isn't going to get any traction.

There is certainly something to be said for giving some screen real estate to a context sensitive toolbar

I've seen some good context-sensitive toolbars, but not so much in ribbon implementations.

long scrolling lists = selecting an attribute to add as a new column to a worksheet, the list is massive and is not searchable

In this specific example Matt, pressing the first letter of a field name will jump to that area of the list. Not searchable, but fast access to the field you want, if you know what it is called.

In fact in many areas of MC, pressing the first letter of what you want, sometimes by first hovering over or clicking an item in a list, will jump you to that part of the list.

[mattkhan]

I've seen some good context-sensitive toolbars, but not so much in ribbon implementations.

In this specific example Matt, pressing the first letter of a field name will jump to that area of the list. Not searchable, but fast access to the field you want, if you know what it is called.

In fact in many areas of MC, pressing the first letter of what you want, sometimes by first hovering over or clicking an item in a list, will jump you to that part of the list.

I tend to think some sort of toolbar would be nicer than the current approach, no particular opinion on best way to do that (though I often think of MC in IDE terms, i.e. should have multiple dockable views that you can move around at will).

Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately I think this is a small but good example of how the UX of the MC UI is not so good. It is not remotely obvious (there is no hint anywhere that it will do this), not entirely helpful (e.g. say I want to see the columns that contain 128) and doesn't work at all consistently (once I've pressed one key, it ignores the rest and I have to close the menu and reopen it to "search" again).

[RoderickGI]

Yep, it is a simple left to right character search.

You can type multiple characters to refine the search though. Also, you don't need to close the menu to reset the search, just wait a second or so, then MC resets and you can start the search again.

I can't say that functionality is entirely consistent internally in MC, but it is pretty common. As we all know, MC has a steep learning curve.

[mattkhan]

definitely quite confusing to use without any sort of visual indicator of what is happening, usually you either filter the list as you type or highlight the matching characters, either would improve accessibility of that feature.

more generally IMV the worksheet view could do with a "design" view that lets you choose columns, sort order and so on in one place rather than via an assortment of right click menus.

[JimH]

You can right click on the title bar to add or remove tags.  You can also drag and drop them.

[JimH]

goatherder,
Please just make your suggestions  without the [blank] insults.

Your approach is unwelcome and will lead to limited or no forum privileges.

If you can clearly present good ideas, we will consider them.

[JimH]

I also live in Outlook. On which I can scroll by touch just fine without making my finger extra pointy and heading to the scroll bar by the way, as I should be able to in this day and age.

Try the option to enlarge scroll bars.

[RoderickGI]

definitely quite confusing to use without any sort of visual indicator of what is happening, usually you either filter the list as you type or highlight the matching characters, either would improve accessibility of that feature.

more generally IMV the worksheet view could do with a "design" view that lets you choose columns, sort order and so on in one place rather than via an assortment of right click menus.

I agree with both these points. Particularly the "filter the list as you type" version, for any content not just left to right, and if the matching characters were also highlighted you would have visual feedback or what you have typed without having to show a separate field.

The default sorting in Views still catches me out on occasion.

[goatherder]

Try the option to enlarge scroll bars.

Do you mean the "enlarge scroll bar on mouseover" control?

Aside from it, again, not being the point - i.e. MC doesn't make any distinction between any type of finger-on event, it simply interprets everything as a mouse click of course (and I don't know how to put the nature of the issue more concisely than that) - that particular control doesn't appear to work on any of my installs, desktop or not.

[BryanC]

definitely quite confusing to use without any sort of visual indicator of what is happening, usually you either filter the list as you type or highlight the matching characters, either would improve accessibility of that feature.

more generally IMV the worksheet view could do with a "design" view that lets you choose columns, sort order and so on in one place rather than via an assortment of right click menus.

I think the optimal solution has already been applied to Theater View. Once you start typing your keystrokes are displayed in a nice popup. Not sure if this can be done in standard view without OpenGL but it works really, really well in Theater View.

[mattkhan]

I think the optimal solution has already been applied to Theater View. Once you start typing your keystrokes are displayed in a nice popup. Not sure if this can be done in standard view without OpenGL but it works really, really well in Theater View.

that isn't optimal IMV, something like https://plan-three.github.io/material-ui-autosuggest/ is much more useful for long lists where you might not know the exact value

[BryanC]

that isn't optimal IMV, something like https://plan-three.github.io/material-ui-autosuggest/ is much more useful for long lists where you might not know the exact value

I feel like this takes up too much screen real estate, but it certainly is functional.

[jmone]

I'm not sure I want to wade into this by FWIW (from my POV),

- STD View : I like it.  Works well on a PC with mouse of keyboard to doing my Maintenance.
- TheaterView on HTPC : I like it.  Works well with a Remote Control.  It could be "fancier" but to be realistic we use it on all our HTPC to find and watch the content not to sit watching TheaterView itself. 
- TheaterView on Touch Screen : We use a Touch Screen, All-In-One PC in the Kitchen and this is the one area I think Improvements could be made.  Attached is a Pic of how HD Home Run's App does this and it is more Touch Screen friendly that Theater View.  The Right Side Panel appears when you touch the main screen, you can then finger scroll through to find the next channel to change to.  It is more like the experience you get with Mobile Apps.  A similar look and feel is with other apps from the Cable Provider, Netflix etc.  In this regard, TheaterView is the "odd man out".  It's not that TheaterView does not work with Touch, it's more that the layout used by other Apps (including MC's own Remotes) work better for Finger Control.

So the only thing I'd suggest is that on the Desktop Versions of MC add an option to present the UI used for Remotes / Android Client as an idea.

[darky]

"- TheaterView on HTPC : I like it.  Works well with a Remote Control.  It could be "fancier" but to be realistic we use it on all our HTPC to find and watch the content not to sit watching TheaterView itself. "

agree, but it never hurts to have an attractive interface. New user need to have a good impression. Not all go for the deep mod-ability that jriver allows.
Some want the database and once in a while a new flashier look.
Although it functions lovely

[audioqueso]

In regards to the TheaterView UI being modern..  absolutely needing a "Right Click" is one of the things keeping MC's TheaterView from being modern in my opinion.
It's designed for HTPC use, right?  To be used by a remote or something simple, right?  Yet when watching movie, if you want to switch between different subtitles, or audio streams, you have to use a mouse or configure something to emulate the "right-click" button.

I know I have posted a few questions in recent years, where the answer provided was usually involving a right-click button.

[jachin99]

I'm pretty sure pressing up or down brings up an options menu where you can do things like pick a different audio stream.  You just have to scroll through the various options menus

[jmone]

That's correct, an OSD of Menu options are shown when pressing the Up or Down arrow on the RC.  Then use Left / Right to select the option you want to change.

[Peter M]

^^^ this certainly works but is a bit clunky.  Just like my request for direct access to a chapter list, direct access to audio and subtitles would be nice.

Cheers,
Peter

[Daniel Warner]

This comes up EVERY year, and every year it gets argued as if the ui is good enough. We, the users, aren't developers, so if shouldn't be up to us to explain how to program a better ui. Look at the plex apps, they are constantly being improved. Heck even groove music on win10 has a more modern ui (I don't mean it has uwp, I mean it is modern in its approach).

I love jrmc, I have used it for over 10 years and have paid to upgrade every year, but the interface hasn't changed in all that time so please put upgrading the ui on the road map at the very least.

[franswilco]

You are absolutely right, Daniel. The owner chooses not to see it.

A little bit of Design Thinking methodologies would go a long way for JRiver.