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HDR on SDR TV, MadVR default settings

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BryanC:
I had my first experience using the new tonemapping curves (NeoXP's) last night using the 112b madVR build playing the new Maleficent: Mistress of Evil release. Holy cow  :o. I highly recommend using this movie if you want to test color and dynamic range. I switched back and forth from my 8 bit and 10 bit rip and it was like being in a different world.

tij:

--- Quote from: Elvis133 on January 04, 2020, 08:57:57 am ---Sure about this? I tried running HDR in MC vs VLC, and the difference is dramatic.

--- End quote ---

The bottom image does not have any HDR to SDR mapping at all.

if you set HDR passthrough in MadVR ... it will only work in full screen (and TV will do tonemappibg in that case ... not MadVR)

you have to set HDR setting for madVR to process or convert HDR ... AND do not send HDR metadata to TV ... have to know nits of your tv too for better result

PS. my thoughts on HDR ... whatever tone mapping is used - it will not be what it meant to be ... you are compressing something ... trading one thing for another ... so ultimately - it will be subjective what is best

consumer TV and projectors not only cannot hit required brightness ... they cannot cover full BT2020 ... so while TV might claim 1000nit brightness ... it will not be able to correctly display color at that brightness ... good tone mapping will let you choose - “see details in bright explosion but with less saturated color than intended” or “see explosion in as correct color as possible but loose highlight details” ... atm madVR with MC at least gives you that choice

flac.rules:

--- Quote from: tij on January 04, 2020, 01:19:16 pm ---The bottom image does not have any HDR to SDR mapping at all.

if you set HDR passthrough in MadVR ... it will only work in full screen (and TV will do tonemappibg in that case ... not MadVR)

you have to set HDR setting for madVR to process or convert HDR ... AND do not send HDR metadata to TV ... have to know nits of your tv too for better result

PS. my thoughts on HDR ... whatever tone mapping is used - it will not be what it meant to be ... you are compressing something ... trading one thing for another ... so ultimately - it will be subjective what is best

consumer TV and projectors not only cannot hit required brightness ... they cannot cover full BT2020 ... so while TV might claim 1000nit brightness ... it will not be able to correctly display color at that brightness ... good tone mapping will let you choose - “see details in bright explosion but with less saturated color than intended” or “see explosion in as correct color as possible but loose highlight details” ... atm madVR with MC at least gives you that choice

--- End quote ---

Exactly, that is my point, default MC-install doesn't seem to do any tonemapping with its default settings? But maybe the "led madVR decide" isn't the best setting here?

tij:

--- Quote from: Elvis133 on January 04, 2020, 03:01:41 pm ---Exactly, that is my point, default MC-install doesn't seem to do any tonemapping with its default settings? But maybe the "led madVR decide" isn't the best setting here?

--- End quote ---

I don't use "let MadVR decide" for HDR simply because I have no idea how MadVR decides … in your case it seems MadVR chose to passthrough HDR metadata (ie it chose not to do tone mapping and let TV do it … this only works in Full Screen … your TV should enter HDR mode … this would explain why your screenshot of MC looks wash out - it was not running full screen)

madVR 0.92.16 shipped with MC has following option for HDR

1. [let MadVR decide] … I don't use this as I have no idea how MadVR chooses between 5 available choices

2. [passthrough HDR content to the display] - MadVR don't do tone mapping and let TV do it (obviously TV must support HDR) … box [send HDR metadata to the display] must be ticked otherwise TV would not know if it suppose to do tone mapping … this only works if video is played in full screen mode … your TV will enter HDR mode (if it does not - something is not working correctly)

remaining 4 options are [convert HDR content to SDR] and [process HDR content] with options to do it with "pixel shader" or "3DLUT"

3DLUT is not something average person can do … so most ppl will use pixel shaders … this uses GPU … so might need to tone down on scaling algorithms to avoid frame drops

the deference between [convert] and [process] … is later allows you to send HDR metadata to TV for TV to do further tone mapping (though purpose of this escapes my limited understanding of HDR)

In summary … if you want TV to do tone mapping … choose [passthrough HDR content to the display] with [send HDR metadata to the display] box ticked

If your TV is not HDR or its tone mapping suck bad … choose [convert HDR content to SDR by using pixel shader math] … most important setting there is target nits
… google your TV to see its max nits … you don't want to set target nits higher than what your TV can do or there will be clipping

PS. be aware when comparing passthrough with convert to SDR … when TV enters HDR mode in passthrough it uses separate settings for brightness/contrast (usually much brighter) … so you need to adjust your TV brightness in normal mode to match your target nits in conversion, which might make your regular SDR content not so good

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