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[CountryBumkin]

I have a lot of older DVD movies that I ripped to MKV. I noticed that some (maybe all) that should be showing forced subtitles are not. To be clear, when I say "forced subtitles" I mean the part of the movie that is in a foreign or alien language that must be displayed to understand what is going on. Not the entire movie dialog.

Such as the movie Avatar, Dances with Wolves, 2012.

In the JRiver subtitle selections, every subtitle track choice I have displays the entire movie with subtitles. I only want to see the specific "foreign/alien" dialog. There is no subtitle track that does that in any of my subtitle choices. In the attached photo, all of the subtitle choices show dialog for everything (just in different colors or screen positions)

So what do I need to do? I can re-rip those movies if needed. I've been Googling this (looking at the MakeMKV forums, but still don't have a clear procedure).

I know most of you are way past ripping (old format) DVDs, but I have hundreds of DVD discs (with only a couple with this problem) and I would like to get those fixed.

Does anyone have a step-by-step procedure to do this? 

[tij]

I haven’t rip DVD in looooong time (rip my DVD collection long time ago and since BD came out, never bought DVD again)

So what I will be saying next is for ripping BD ... but it should be applicable to DVD too

First of - I don’t use MC to rip disk. For movie I use MakeMKV (sometimes MKVToolnix and DVDFab).

BD subtitles can contain internal flags inside them to indicate which line is a forced one. Obviously if you select that subtitle stream, MC will display all subtitles (forced and non forced). For this type of scenario, to display only potion that is forced - following must be true:
1. Audio you playing is marked in mkv as English
2. That subtitle stream is marked in mkv as English
3. That subtitle stream is first English subtitle in mkv
4. MC setting for subtitles is “off”

In this scenario MC will go through first English subtitle stream in mkv and pick only lines marked as forced . (Incidentally to completely disable any subtitles you must choose “null” for subtitle selection ... then even forced subtitles won’t be displayed)

Flagging lines as forced inside subtitles is feature of BD and DVD subtitles. Text based subtitle like SRT do not support this feature.

Now if above scenario was the only scenario ... it would be easy. But as almost everything in life it is not easy.

BD often contains lots of English subtitle tracks. First one is usually normal subs. If there are 2 English subtitles at the beginning - one of them will be normal the other one will be SDH (first one is often SDH). To make matters worst, SDH never contains forced flags and it is often the first English sub listed.

English tracks at the end of the list are usually commentary subs. If there is separate English track for forced subs only ... it will be the last English track. To make things more complex - sometimes these forced only track have no internal markings to indicate that lines are forced (so what worked to display forced marked lines won’t work here ... must choose this track specifically to be displayed)

This post is getting too long. I will limit this post to this ... just describing possible scenarios. In next post I will describe my ripping process.

[CountryBumkin]

Thanks for your reply. That's a lot of good info for BDs. I don't think I have this problem with Blu-rays. At least I have not come across any BDs yet that have non working forced subtitles (or the "mkv ripping software" handles BDs better than it does for the DVDs).

I stopped buying DVDs when the BD format came out, but I still have a lot of DVDs. Some of them I have not watched for a couple of years (maybe a decade now).
But last week i tried two of the three DVD movies I listed above and noticed no forced subtitles. Since I own all the movies i can dig them up and re-rip once I figure out the correct process.

I guess there are a couple of ways to do this, as I keep finding posts on various forums, but each seems to have different instructions. i just want a step-by-step list that will work for all DVDs - if that is even possible (I'll get whatever software is recommended).

As you mentioned, I don't use MC to rip my movies either. I just never tried it as I have a life-time license for MakeMKV.

[tij]

I did couple of testing on my DVDs to refresh my memory. Here what I found … DVD subtitles support flags that can mark each line of subtitles as forced, but none of the players seems to support it (MPC-HC, VLC, JRiver). Even MakeMKV does not support it.

Easiest way IMHO is to search web for forced subtitles … most of those come in SRT … then remux them into your MKV (eg. using MKVToolnix) … some sync adjustment might be needed though

The hard way … seems only HandBrake can scan VOB subtitles and extract parts that are marked as forced … so to go this way:
1. load your mkv to HandBrake
2. choose MKV as output
3. choose fastest lowest quality video conversion (you don't need video)
4. choose fastest lowest quality audio conversion (you don't need audio too)
5. in subtitles choose 'Foreign audio scan' and check 'Forced Only' for each of your subtitles
6. run the conversion
7. play the result file to see which subtitle has force portion
8. use MKVToolnix to add found forced subtitle in Step7 to original MKV

[wer]

Searching for an all new sub track on the internet can be problematic.  Converting using Handbrake is slow and it sometimes gets for forced subs wrong.

A better solution would be to convert the forced subs directly.  MakeMKV has never supported this for DVD, and I don't think they update the DVD processing any more.  But it can be done.

Use mkvextract to get the sub track from the MKV file. Then you can use BDSup2Sub to convert just the forced lines into a new separate subtitle track.  Then you can mux that new subtitle track back into the MKV with mkvmerge.

[tij]

Searching for an all new sub track on the internet can be problematic.  Converting using Handbrake is slow and it sometimes gets for forced subs wrong.

A better solution would be to convert the forced subs directly.  MakeMKV has never supported this for DVD, and I don't think they update the DVD processing any more.  But it can be done.

Use mkvextract to get the sub track from the MKV file. Then you can use BDSup2Sub to covert just the forced lines into a new separate subtitle track.  Then you can mux that new subtitle track back into the MKV with mkvmerge.

Hmmm … did not know BDSup2Sup supported VOB … that indeed will be easier

[CountryBumkin]

I've been reading and learning about this for hours now. It's very complicated. I tried a few things with MKVtoolNix GUI but it wasn't working (I couldn't figure it out). One issue is trying to identify which track/subtitle is the forced subtitle.

I found an easier solution.

I'm now downloading a "SRT" file (the forced subtitle) for the movie. I then put it in the same folder with the movie and make sure the file name is the same as the movie's file name but ends in "eng.srt", so for the movie "2012.mkv" I have a second file called "2012.eng.srt" in the same folder.

That is working so far on the first two movies I listed. This way I don't need to analyze the movie or modify it (such as setting "Forced flag to ON). I just add another file to the movie folder. Someone else did the work to id the forced track and provided it for all to use.

I'm getting the "srt" files from "subscene.com". The hardest part of this method is figuring out what is the best (correct) srt file for the movie. It appears that people upload their SRT file to the site, so there are like 50 files for the same movie for the English language. Some are for the DVD movie some are for the BD version, some are labeled as Theatrical Cut version, etc. I just picked two that looked correct and so far it seems to be fine.

[wer]

Hmmm … did not know BDSup2Sup supported VOB … that indeed will be easier

It does.  For DVD it supports VobSub (SUB/IDX) and DVD-SUP (SUP/IFO).

For those not familiar with it, the homepage and source are here:
https://github.com/mjuhasz/BDSup2Sub/wiki

A java version that can run on Windows can be downloaded here:
https://github.com/mjuhasz/BDSup2Sub/wiki/Download

It's a Java program, and can behave obstinately if it doesn't like the version of the JRE you have. If you see the program behave strangely (like it will load a sub file but not DO anything with it, or all the menu options are greyed out, that sort of nonsense) it's probably your Java version.  It doesn't behave on JRE6, it does work on JRE7, and I haven't tested on 8.

To do the this entire extract/convert/remux process on a DVD movie on a fast hard drive takes perhaps 5 minutes.

[wer]

I'm getting the "srt" files from "subscene.com". The hardest part of this method is figuring out what is the best (correct) srt file for the movie. It appears that people upload their SRT file to the site, so there are like 50 files for the same movie for the English language. Some are for the DVD movie some are for the BD version, some are labeled as Theatrical Cut version, etc. I just picked two that looked correct and so far it seems to be fine.

For many movies you won't find it, or it will be wrong. Even if you find something, you have to validate it's correct.  Yes, dropping a SRT file in a folder is easy.  Finding the right one, if you find it at all, is hard and time-consuming.

I suggest you try my method. It is simple, accurate, and takes less than 5 minutes to do, which is less time than you will spend looking for a new correct track on the web.

The app will automatically identify which subtitle lines are forced. The only info you need from MKVtoolnixGUI is the track ID for the main subtitle track, that contains all your forced and non-forced subtitles.  And in the case of a DVD rip, likely there is only 1 subtitle track.  If you don't like using the command-line mkvextract and identifying the TrackID in MKVtoolnixGUI, then you can download MKVcleaver, which will do the extract for you graphically with 2 clicks.

What you're doing is harder, slower, and less accurate than what I'm giving you.  But suit yourself.

[tij]

I agree with @wer … gotta learn MKVToolnix … and its not that complicated … reason I still have DVD - some of them cannot get in BD … cause they are type of movies not popular enough to be released in BD … for these movies its sometimes impossible to get SRT.

Since you like step by step … here it is:

1. Open your mkv in MKVToolnix (see attached example) … just note the ID for all your subtitles … in screenshot I attached subs are ID 3 and 4

2. Close MKVToolnix

3. Open command prompt

4. Go into MKVToolnix install directory … eg type cd C:\Program Files\MKVToolNix … you can set up PATH environmental variable so as to not do this step every time (personally I am too lazy to do that)

5. type mkvextract.exe tracks "[full path to mkv]" [ID]:[output file] … for my screenshot example it would be
mkvextract.exe tracks "d:\movies\Peculiarities of the National Hunt  (1995).mkv" 3:d:\s1.sup 4:d:\s2.sup

6. Each VOB subtitle will generate 2 files ... one .idx and one .sup

7. Open each generated subtitle in BDSup2Sup ... what you looking for is "Detected X forced caption" ... if zero is detected, skip to next subtitle as what you just open has no forced flags set

8. Once you found subtitle that has none zero forced caption ... proceed opening it ... make sure [Forced all] is set to "keep" and that you do not change frame rate

9. Go to File->Export (see attached) … tick [Export only forced] and save … now you have subtitle with only forced items

10. Open your movie in MKVToolnix … add new subtitle to your movie multiplexer … put that subtitle at the top of subtitles you have … set flag as default and forced … name that subtitle to something sensible … then multiplex (IF REALLY LAZY … can skip this step and just put new SUP file in the same folder as movie … kinda like what you do with SRT)

Whole process should be less than 5 min as wer mention

[wer]

tij is a patient and kind fellow to screenshot all that out.

FYI, steps 1-5 can be done in 2 clicks with MKVcleaver.  It's a simple GUI for dismembering MKV files.

[tij]

SRT has one advantage though ... they will be rendered at higher quality than VOB ... especially at 4K resolution ... which might not be so relevant as DVD on 4K screen is not that brilliant either

You can OCR VOB to SRT ... and though it’s not that difficult, CountryBumkin might not want to go through extra steps lol

 

[wer]

Sure.  Actually two advantages, because SRTs are easy to edit too, like if a translation is wrong or a word is misspelled.  But again, the problem is finding a good SRT.  Does it actually have the content you want? Is it in correct time-sync with the DVD edition that you have?  Is it spelled correctly throughout or is it crap because it was created by a nitwit with a bad OCR program?  Is it a good translation, done by someone fluent in both languages, or was it created by some hapless teenager speaking poor English into dictation software?

SRT is a better format. And Unicorns are better than Horses.

I have a lot of foreign language movies, and a lot of movies with some forced subtitles.  Finding a good SRT already made is a real crap-shoot.  The success rate for the movies in my collection was not good, and that's with spending a lot more than 5 minutes looking and testing.

[tij]

Touchι ... I remember I had to manually resync and correct ASS/SSA for one Japanese anime series ... took me one month lol

[CountryBumkin]

Finding a good SRT already made is a real crap-shoot.  The success rate for the movies in my collection was not good, and that's with spending a lot more than 5 minutes looking and testing.

You're right about that. I thought I was done but then found that the SRT file for the movie "Dances with Wolves" was not correct. The subtitles were in the wrong place, and/or had additional subtitles (like "cough" or "grunt") inserted that I didn't want.

I spent 30-60 minutes trying different SRT files (there are literately 50+ submitted for this movie). I did not yet find the correct one.

So this SRT method worked fine for some movies (like "2012") but not so good for others (like "Dances with Wolves").

I need to find my hard-copy of the movie now and follow the instructions above.

Thanks for taking the time to explain this and add the screen shots.