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[AlanDistro]

Can you please fix the long standing issue with JRiver still grabbing and analyzing every inserted disc, even after JRiver is told to do "Nothing" when a new disc is inserted?

This has been an issue with every version I've used and I've seen it mentioned here numerous times and it always gets shrugged off with responses like "close JRiver while you're ripping".

I don't want to close JRiver while ripping and I shouldn't have to. I want to watch one movie while ripping others... but every time I put a disc in my drive, I get the pop up that JRiver is analyzing the disc (even over the movie I'm trying to watch), and JRiver freezes MakeMKV until JRiver is done analyzing. Sometimes JRiver never lets go of the disc drive and I have to End Task on JRiver and restart.

It's really frustrating, especially because there is a very specific setting to do "Nothing" that is being ignored by JRiver. Is there no way to have JRiver completely ignore disc drives?

[AlanDistro]

FYI, I find the locking-up-disc-drive-forever thing to happen more often with DVDs than it does with Blu-Rays.

[JimH]

You can set MC not to handle optical discs.  But you also have to tell Windows what to do.

If you have antivirus software running (and you do if you use Win10), it can get in the way, too.

[AlanDistro]

You can set MC not to handle optical discs.  But you also have to tell Windows what to do.

If you have antivirus software running (and you do if you use Win10), it can get in the way, too.

As mentioned above, I've told both JRiver to do Nothing (and Windows has always behaved, it also does nothing when a disc is inserted), and yet, every time I put a disc in, JRiver grabs control of the drive and tries to analyze the disc. It brings everything else to a halt while doing this (the play position in JRiver doesn't update and MakeMKV is frozen) until JRiver decides to let go of the drive. Sometimes, as I mentioned above, it never lets go and I have to force quit.

This is not an antivirus problem.

[JimH]

AnyDVD may also do that.

If you're sure of what it is (and isn't), why ask?

Windows definitely has control of the drive. 

[RoderickGI]

There have been many long discussions on this Jim.
Autoplay can be off in MC.
Autoplay can be off in Windows.
Enable auto-rip mode can be off in MC.
It isn't AnyDVD, DVD fab, Anti-Virus or anything else.

It is MC analysing the disc, and there is currently no way that I know to stop it.

There are two pieces of evidence.

1. When I insert a brand new CD that MC hasn't seen before into the optical drive I sometimes (if auto-rip is off) see the message "Analysiing Optical Disc".
2. After inserting a CD with all relevant settings turned off, then go to "Drives & Devices" in the left Navigation Bar, the CD is shown there. Yes, Windows has told MC about the new drive that just appeared, but if I click on the CD drive in MC, it shows all the metadata for the CD which is not read from the CD, but looked up on the internet (YADB) after the CD has been analysed and identified.

It isn't as bad as it used to be though, and I don't insert as many discs into the optical drive these days, unless I am ripping a new CD, in which case I want MC to analyse the disc anyway.

But it is a fact of life: MC analyses every optical disc inserted into an optical drive while it is running. By design.


What version of MC are you on Alan? I can't remember when this situation was improved, but I think it was at some time. Quite a while back. Also, I think the driver, its drivers, and your internet connection affect how long the issue lasts.

[EnglishTiger]

Rod is totally correct - MC does check to see what has been inserted into an optical drive even when it, windows and anything else that handles optical discs, has been told to do Nothing. In the same way MC tells me that somebody has switched the TV on, or off even though I never stream anything from MC to my TV

I'm not sure if this applies when a DVD is inserted in an optical drive but one way of reducing the impact inserting a CD has on MC is to tell MC not to do an Internet Lookup to stop it searching YADB, which can cause MC to "Temporarily Lock-Up", it will still analyse the CD and if you click on the CD it will show the Metadata it has read from the CD's TOC, assuming of course it found it.

Alternatively you can always use the rule that applies in this house - Only ever insert a CD/DVD in the optical drive, regardless of what you want to do with it, when MC is doing nothing else.

[RoderickGI]

EnglishTiger, I assume by;

tell MC not to do an Internet Lookup to stop it searching YADB

You mean the setting at "Options > General > Online Metadata > Allow automatic CD lookup / submission"?

I didn't think of that one. But, yes, that could have a noticeable effect, because it would be active even if you weren't yet ripping a CD that had been inserted. Most of the other settings only come into play once you have started or finished ripping a CD.

In fact with "Allow automatic CD lookup / submission" turned off I still got the "Analysiing Optical Disc" message flash very briefly on screen, but the contents of the disc metadata were all "Unkown" except for the [Name], which was just Track 01 ... 18, and the [Duration]. That is consistent with just the basic file system information for files found on a CD. There is no CD TOC, or CD.txt file, on most CDs these days. It all comes from online sources. The only other activity on inserting the CD was a briefly spinning mouse icon, but that was all.

So with all of these turned off:
1. "Options > CD, DVD & BD > Autoplay" for all disc types.
2. "Options > CD, DVD & BD > Auto Rip CD Database lookup Options > Enable auto-rip mode".
3. "Options > General > Online Metadata > Allow automatic CD lookup / submission".

MC still analyses any inserted CD.

However, if you turn off the "Options > General > Features > CD Ripping" Feature, then the CD does not seem to be analysed. I guess if you rip CDs externally to MC, or very infrequently, that is the answer Alan.

[mark_h]

Would love to see this resolved once and for all.

[EnglishTiger]

Rod - I'm not sure where you are getting your Audio CD's from but in the last 6 months I've ripped nearly 1,000 commercially released audio cd's, some of which were released in 2019/2020, and every one did have a TOC file, although MC occasionally failed to find it and displayed "Unkown" in the fields/tags you mentioned.

Ah, I've just remembered something - Because the Music Recording Industry existed long before the Internet was around, let alone adding Metadata to CD's, there is no "Set Standard" for what Metadata does get added to a CD, most of the time it's the Audio Engineers compiling the release that decides what Metatdata is present in the CD TOC; so it's not unusual for some albums to be released with just enough data to allow it to match up on an Internet Search of a site, or sites, that knows of that CD's Existence.

[RoderickGI]

   I'm using old CDs on my Workstation, which hasn't seen the CDs before, for testing. I know I tried to work out what was on CDs some time back and there wasn't much. They were being identified via the CD Catalogue number, not a TOC.

So yeah, not much of a standard on what they include.

Would love to see this resolved once and for all.

I didn't test much, but it seems like turning off the CD Ripping Feature pretty much stops MC doing anything, leaving just Windows doing a minor "Recognise disc" step.

If that isn't an option, turning off "Allow automatic CD lookup / submission" seems pretty close. Both can still be done manually, and CDs can still be ripped.

[JimH]

MC can read a Windows Media Player file.  I think it's called cdplayer.ini.  It stores metadata that Windows Media Player uses.  I wonder if access is blocked now.

[RoderickGI]

MC can read a Windows Media Player file.  I think it's called cdplayer.ini.  It stores metadata that Windows Media Player uses.  I wonder if access is blocked now.

A bit off-topic, but that was discussed back here: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,122670.msg851042.html#msg851042

Conclusion: Any use of cdplayer.ini would be limited, as it is written to the C:\Windows directory, which is no longer accessible for normal programs and users, for security reasons.

I don't think anything was done to relocate where MC expects to see the cdplayer.ini file. There's nothing in the Release Notes.

[EnglishTiger]

Just to add some intrigue to the "CDPlayer.ini" mystery I took a gamble and deleted the CDPlayer.ini file from my PC and then did the following:-

With CD Ripping and YADB Lookup switched off in MC I put my single 2017 Anniversary Edition of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band CD in the drive and then clicked on the drive in the MC tree and saw the Metadata/Info shown in the 1st  pic.
I then clicked on the "Update from Online Database" button and got the Metadata/Info shown in pic 2.
I then clicked on the "Update from CDPlayer.ini" option - which forced MC to reread the CD, presumably to reload the TOC, which resulted in MC once again showing the Metadata from pic 1.

Then for a bit of fun I disconnected my PC from the Net and clicked once again clicked on the "Update from CDPlayer.ini" option which caused the same actions and gave the same results as above.

I then reconnected my PC to the Net, enabled CD-Ripping in MC and let it rip the CD and when it finished went looking to see if I could find "CDPlayer.ini" anywhere on my hard-drives - there wasn't one.

I then ripped the CD using WMP12 and once again was unable to find a file called "CDplayer.ini" anywhere.

All I can assume is that one of the Win10 updates that have been installed since the last time "CDPlayer.ini" was last used/written is either using a temporary file to hold the TOC info/metadata, changed the name of the file or it is now an obsolete file that is no longer used by Windows or WMP12.

A bit more intrigue - In the last 4-6 months I've used WMP12 to rip nearly 1000 CD's but that CDPlayer.ini" I deleted only had the MetaData from the last 6 Multi-CD Albums I'd ripped.

[JimH]

I then clicked on the "Update from CDPlayer.ini" option - which forced MC to reread the CD, presumably to reload the TOC, which resulted in MC once again showing the Metadata from pic 1.

When you do that, MC tries to read the CDPlayer.ini file.  If the file isn't there, I'm not sure what happens next.

[RoderickGI]

First, I'm still not convinced that the CD TOC contains any metadata (Album name, Artists, Track name, etc.). A quick Google is a little inconclusive as it only says what is in the TOC and not what is not in it, but this page from MusicBrainz show what is in the TOC, and it isn't metadata.

MusicBrainz also says;
"The deeper stuff will be needed in case the CD-Text format becomes popular, which stores extra data (like artist and track information) in the above mentioned control data parts."

The use of CD-Text to store additional metadata about the disc is the only place such data will be found on the disc, I believe. I don't think it has become popular, but I don't have a lot of recent discs to find out.

This tutorial describes where the TOC is, and what is in it. Which is;
"The TOC in the "lead-in" area contains the total length of the recording session, a list of tracks and their starting addresses and some other information."

No mention of metadata.

This one mentions a proposal to store a data track, which could hold some metadata, but its references to TOC are just the normal Track information. The TOC doesn't hold metadata, the Data Track does. If that was ever implemented.

I found lots of discussions about TOC identifying how many tracks are on a CD and where they start and end. But nothing about actual metadata. Album name, Artists, Track name, etc. So, if such metadata exists on a CD, it comes from the CD-Text file.


Do you have a or know of a tool that just reads the CD TOC, or the CD-Text file, and identifies where the data is coming from, and shows the metadata?
Or do you have a reference (Link) for a description of what is in the TOC for modern CDs?

================

Regarding your tests;

Had MC ever seen that CD before?
As soon as you insert a CD and allow MC to look it up in the online database, MC creates a record in its internal CD Database. If you had CD Ripping and YADB Lookup turned off, but the CD had been seen before, MC just looked up its internal CD Database.

I tested this with an old Glenn Miller CD, with everything we've discussed turned off except the CD Ripping Feature. Using a View which is limited to Audio files and the CD Database, Glenn Miller didn't show up. The CD under "Drives & Devices" showed all "Unknowns". I clicked the "Update from Online Database" and the metadata was filled in under "Drives & Devices". Glenn Miller then showed in the CD Database View. I ejected the CD and the metadata still showed up. I restarted MC and the CD with all its metadata still showed up in the CD Database View. I then reinserted the CD and looked at it under "Drives & Devices". All the metadata was present, even though the online lookup is turned off.

Once MC has seen a CD, or any optical disc, it creates a CD Database record, and it will reuse that data later, as required.

So basically, if MC had seen this CD before, all your tests were invalid.
If MC had never seen this CD, then in your first test MC may have found the metadata in the "CDPlayer.ini" file on your PC. I believe MC will look that up even with the online lookup turned off.
Once you ran the "Update from Online Database" all following tests were invalid, unless you deleted the record from the CD Database, and deleted the same record from the Removed Database before any following test.


I don't think MC writes "CDPlayer.ini" files. It just reads them. I don't have any on my PC. Never have, despite many CD rips.

[EnglishTiger]

Rod - Re my "testing"

MC had seen that CD before, out of curiosity 2 days previously I'd put it in the Optical Drive and did  a YADB Lookup which told me it was the 2009 Mono Remaster - but that time track 1 was showing as "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)" but for some unknown reason would not obey the instruction "To Update from CDPlayer.ini".

On Tuesday although I only reported my observations/findings using MC26 on my desktop, I also exposed that CD to MediaMonkey, with it's Online Lookup switched off and it also told me that it was the 2017 Remix and had the same typo in track 9. However WMP12, where the On-Line Lookup can't be switched of, claimed it was Disk 1 of the 2017 Deluxe Edition and that the genre was Retrospective Pop.
But I'm an old school belt and bracers type of guy and repeated my tests on my Laptop where I knew that MC, MM or WMP had ever seen that CD because none of those programs had ever been installed. Once I'd installed MC26 and MM I disconnected the laptop from the net and exposed the CD to both of them and both "correctly" identified it as the 2017 Remix.

All I can assume is that the Mysterious "CDPlayer.ini" file is a temporary "Session Dependant File" that gets erased when MC is closed down. Something that could explain why some users have reported incidences of MC26 sometimes showing the Info/Metatada for the Previous Disc during a multiple disc ripping section, probably because the OS and not MC hasn't spotted that a disc change has occurred.

With regards to CDTOC and CD-Text, and this info took a while to obtain since, thanks to the Covid19 pandemic, not too may people in the Music Recording Industry are currently spending much, if any, time at their place of work. As this Wikipedia Article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-Text reveals CD-Text can occur in 2 places on a CD - The "lead-in area", where a maximum of 5kb can be stored and the "main program area" where up to 31 mb can be stored. CD-Text was only introduced in 1996 so any CD manufactured before 1996 will not contain any CD-Text. Since adding CD-Text to CD's meant that recording studios had to "upgrade" their hardware and software, to add the extra data/info not too many CD's that contain CD-Text were released in 1976 or 1977 and most consumers would only have been aware that it was present on the CD if they had installed a CD-Player that had the ability to read it because that data/info is held in the "R - W subchannels" that older CD-Players couldn't read.

Something that the Wikipedia article, or this one https://www.gnu.org/software/libcdio/cd-text-format.html, which goes into more detail about the contents of "CD-Text", don't mention is that the "lead-in area" has multiple instances/copies of the CDTOC.
Now for the stuff I had to "find out from other sources" - on multi-track CD's Album Specific Data is "usually" only put in the lead-in area with the Track Specific Data being added in the Program Area, in the same area as the Audio Data for that track.

Now lets address this claim -

MusicBrainz also says;
"The deeper stuff will be needed in case the CD-Text format becomes popular, which stores extra data (like artist and track information) in the above mentioned control data parts."

By the end of 1997 Sony had released over 100 Albums that contained CD-Text.
Last Year over 85% of the Albums and Singles released by the Big Three and their subsidiaries contained some level of CD-Text.

If anybody is wondering why the UPC/EAN Code (the barcode) and not the catalogue number is usually added to CD-Text it's because CD-Text only allows for one catalogue number and significant number of albums, created from the same "Recording Session/Mix/Master", are issued under more than one label. My 2017 Remix of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band CD has 2 catalogue numbers, one of which is "PCS 7027" which just happens to be the cat# for the original 1967 Parlophone Stereo LP.

[JimH]

CDplayer.ini is a Microsoft file.  JRiver only reads it.