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[tangolovers]

Hi Matt --  Thanks for checking into this.  I'm a bit puzzled why you're testing on Windows rather than Mac, since the playback problem I'm having is on the Mac.  Nevertheless, I understand the need for a new thread.  I really want to keep the momentum going and get these problem solved, but unfortunately,  I have some other really critical issues on my plate that need my attention.  I may have to come back to that issue later.  Thank you again for all your help!!

[Matt]

Hi Matt --  Thanks for checking into this.  I'm a bit puzzled why you're testing on Windows rather than Mac, since the playback problem I'm having is on the Mac.  Nevertheless, I understand the need for a new thread.  I really want to keep the momentum going and get these problem solved, but unfortunately,  I have some other really critical issues on my plate that need my attention.  I may have to come back to that issue later.  Thank you again for all your help!!

You had said "On Windows: MC Rename displays Filename(name) "01 - Gólgota.mp3"  as  "01 - Go´lgota.mp3".

So I tried to reproduce on Windows.

Like I said, please post some more information when you get time in a new thread.  Thanks.

[HaWi]

Sorry to barge in on your thread. Hope you don't mind. I have practically the same problem with special characters on the Mac, to the extent that I had to manually change them all back to "not so special" e.g á to a and ë to e etc. in all fields that are represented in the /file path/file name. Especially when there is a special character in a folder name, that file would not play in any exported playlist (but that is probably a convoluted issue between MC and the file system on my NAS).
Some of the issues, I believe, are MC specific, for example the generation of spaces instead of the special character, as mentioned before.
I am willing to do anything to help sorting this out. Matt, what can I do to help?
many thanks,
Hans

[Matt]

Does the problem only happen when a Portable Library rule is used?

So is there a Windows filename like C:\á.mp3 and that doesn't work on the Mac?

Or is it even if you import a á.mp3 file on the Mac you have problems?

Thanks.

[HaWi]

Hi Matt,
I am only talking about Mac (and Linux when it comes to the NAS). It happens when no portable rules exist. I haven't tested with portable rules, yet. What I noticed is that if I import a file  å.mp3 it works. Then, when I rename it to Må.mp3 and using F6 to save the filename change to disk as well, the problem starts. Now my files are stored on the NAS so that might be an issue with the file system there but apart from MC, files with the name å.mp3 look normal on the NAS and when they are generated by DS Audio (the NAS resident audio renderer), for example, they play without issue. So, although I haven't any concrete evidence, I believe that there may be something off in the way MC saves special characters from the Mac. I also believe that it is not all special character all the time. Clearly, ñ, ë, ê are always a problem. ó, á seem to behave better but that is only a feeling from previous experience as I haven't specifically tested. Also, there are several versions of apostrophe, (') and (՚) for example, the latter of which, when imported as part of a file name from a downloaded track, generates a problem in MC and shows up as a blank when saved again from MC.
How about I set up a test library with portable rules on the Mac and then experiment with some file names on the Mac and NAS (sorry, I don't have a Windows machine.
many thanks,
Hans

[tangolovers]

Matt --- I have one last important question on Portable Library...

I realized that by keep PC#1 as my original source then every time I want to edit something, I have to go to that computer, do the edits and recopy all music and an updated library backup to the external HD.  Not very practical... although I could live with it.

Now that Portable Library is working, can I delete all of music & library from PC#1 and just use the external HD as my main and only repository, where all edits are made directly to the portable HD, from whatever platform I'm on at the time??   If Yes, what would my new Portable Library Rule look like?

The reason I ask is because I was experimenting with RM&CF to rename one of the non-playing files with special characters (on Mac), but RM&CF  changes the original path (C:\Users...) to /Volumes/E...  that's when I realized it may not be possible to do edits on he external HD.

[HaWi]

With RM&CF, when you want to actually want to change folder or file names you need to put the Path to the actual media folder there into the Base Path

[tangolovers]

I've started a new thread for the special characters issue... https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,126308.0.html

Matt -- have one last important question on Portable Library...  (sorry for repeating, but I think it got lost among other unrelated posts.)

I realized that by keep PC#1 as my original source then every time I want to edit something, I have to go to that computer, do the edits and recopy all music and an updated library backup to the external HD.  Not very practical... although I could live with it.

Now that Portable Library is working, can I delete all of music & library from PC#1 and just use the external HD as my main and only repository, where all edits are made directly to the portable HD, from whatever platform I'm on at the time??   If Yes, what would my new Portable Library Rule look like?

The reason I ask is because I was experimenting with RM&CF to rename one of the non-playing files with special characters (on Mac), but RM&CF  changes the original path (C:\Users...) to /Volumes/E...  that's when I realized it may not be possible to do edits on he external HD.

[RoderickGI]

With RM&CF, when you want to actually want to change folder or file names you need to put the Path to the actual media folder there into the Base Path

No, no, no. Leave the Base Path alone. Using that will mean that you need to set up the rule for the path, and potentially move files. Uncheck all checkboxes other than the "Find & Replace" checkbox.

Just use the Find & Replace function in RM&CF, and the "Update database to point to new location (no file rename, move, or copy)" option, rather than actually renaming or moving the files. That is the fastest and best option when actually changing the location in the Library where MC will look for media files.

Now that Portable Library is working, can I delete all of music & library from PC#1 and just use the external HD as my main and only repository, where all edits are made directly to the portable HD, from whatever platform I'm on at the time??

Yes. But before you do that, get the external drive working with PC#1. On PC#1 use RM&CF with the "Update database to point to new location (no file rename, move, or copy)" option to change "C:\Users\susie\" to "E:\". Make a Library Backup first, because the PL functionality may not work after this change, as per below. Restart MC and check it is working. It should work exactly like PC#2. You should be able to leave the current PL rules as they are during this change. They won't come into effect.

If Yes, what would my new Portable Library Rule look like?

Once you have PC#1 working properly, change your PL rule in PC#1 to only include E:|/Volumes/E. The alternate form for the rule would be E:\|/Volumes/E/, but the extra slashes aren't required.

However, once you have deleted the old rules and created the one above on PC#1, restart MC and check that MC is still working on PC#1. Check on PC#2 as well. The reason to check the PCs first is that the media is now actually stored on the E:\ drive, and the MC PL rule may automatically change the media file paths to start with /Volumes/E. i.e. MC could change:
E:\Music\My Music
to
/Volumes/E/Music/My Music
which would be wrong. Use the Locate on Disk and RM&CF functions to check what MC is doing. I hope that MC checks if E:\ exists first, before applying the rule, in which case the rule will work fine on the PCs.


Then test that on the Mac. It should work fine.

Meanwhile, I still need help with my Reply #55

Hey, I was still proof reading! 

[RoderickGI]

Matt, the special characters issue happened well before the Portable Library functionality was put to use in November 2019. That was after it was introduced in September 2019, but I don't think it contributed. I've seen issues with accents going back before November 2019.

The original thread discussing the issue was here: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,123158.0.html

Anyway, we can use the new thread now.

[tangolovers]

Thank you Roderick!!  You're a gem... always to the rescue!  You & Matt have been amazing!

I will try what you've recommended and report back.

[tangolovers]

FYI Roderick... something weird with the Quotes in your last reply...

The 3rd quote in your previous reply was:

Quote from: HaWi on Today at 04:03:48 pm
"If Yes, what would my new Portable Library Rule look like?"

But this is actually a quote from my reply #55 at 2:50pm.  It's probably just a hiccup in the system or us typing at the same time...no biggie 

[RoderickGI]

Just my blunder in editing the quotes into chunks. 

I was writing the response before you reiterated your need for advice.

[HaWi]

No, no, no. Leave the Base Path alone. Using that will mean that you need to set up the rule for the path, and potentially move files. Uncheck all checkboxes other than the "Find & Replace" checkbox.

Just use the Find & Replace function in RM&CF, and the "Update database to point to new location (no file rename, move, or copy)" option, rather than actually renaming or moving the files. That is the fastest and best option when actually changing the location in the Library where MC will look for media files.

What I was trying to point out is that when one actually wants to rename the physical file (and I do that all the time to synchronize the library with the physical files) then the Base Path has to to point to the actual media location. The portable library rule will not replace the path for physically renaming files.
While on the subject of portable rules, I found that if I generate a portable rule in a library and then load another library, the portable rule I generated before is now also in the newly opened library. Is that a bug?

[RoderickGI]

While on the subject of portable rules, I found that if I generate a portable rule in a library and then load another library, the portable rule I generated before is now also in the newly opened library. Is that a bug?

It seems that the portable rule is saved to the installation, and not the Library. I didn't know that. That makes a lot of sense, and dismisses my concerns of Reply #58.

[tangolovers]

Once you have PC#1 working properly, change your PL rule in PC#1 to only include E:|/Volumes/E. The alternate form for the rule would be E:\|/Volumes/E/, but the extra slashes aren't required.

However, once you have deleted the old rules and created the one above on PC#1, restart MC and check that MC is still working on PC#1. Check on PC#2 as well. The reason to check the PCs first is that the media is now actually stored on the E:\ drive, and the MC PL rule may automatically change the media file paths to start with /Volumes/E. i.e. MC could change:
E:\Music\My Music
to
/Volumes/E/Music/My Music
which would be wrong. Use the Locate on Disk and RM&CF functions to check what MC is doing. I hope that MC checks if E:\ exists first, before applying the rule, in which case the rule will work fine on the PCs.

Ok, when I ran RM&CM "Update database to point to new location (no file rename, move, or copy)" I unchecked everything except Find & Replace and it appears to have worked, although I ended up with a duplicate of everything - 8124 files on both C:\ and E:\.  I think it's because I never turned off Auto-Import on that machine.  After turning it off, I selected all files on C:\ > Delete > Remove from Media Library.  That' seems to have done the trick.  Everything looks good, including playlists.   

Do I really need a rule on PC#1 & PC#2 since the Library is now looking for "E:\", which is a windows based path?  When I enter Rule 1 = E:\|/Volumes/E/ as you suggested, it does change the paths and nothing plays.  I found that having no rule on either PC#1 or PC32 seems to work fine, which makes sense because the library is already pointing to E:\ and will permanently retain that.  Wouldn't I only need the PL Rule on the Mac in order to change the path to Mac syntax?  I got it working on both PC#2 & the Mac, but did not use PL Rule on the 2PC's because it changed the path.  Otherwise, all seems good so far...   

My Big Question/Concern:  Shouldn't I be be able to do DB editing from any of the platforms?  Reason being, I tried this on the Mac and it updated the base path to "E_/Music/My Music/! NEW IMPORT/02 - Pedacito de Cielo.mp3", which messes up the Library and I get a Tagging error (yet playback still works) because everything else is E:\....  Also, why it inserted an underscore after the "E" is another question.     Help!   

[RoderickGI]

Do I really need a rule on PC#1 & PC#2

No. Now that I know:

It seems that the portable rule is saved to the installation, and not the Library. I didn't know that. That makes a lot of sense, and dismisses my concerns of Reply #58.

You don't need a PL rule on the PCs. What you have done is correct.

My Big Question/Concern:  Shouldn't I be be able to do DB editing from any of the platforms?  Reason being, I tried this on the Mac and it updated the base path to "E_/Music/My Music/! NEW IMPORT/02 - Pedacito de Cielo.mp3", which messes up the Library and I get a Tagging error (yet playback still works) because everything else is E:\....  Also, why it inserted an underscore after the "E" is another question.     Help!

Mostly a question for Matt, but I think you should be able to do any DB editing you wish on the Mac except anything that updates the [Filename (path)] field. Tags should be fine, as should Views, Playlists, and so on.

I would have expected editing on the Mac to update the [Filename] to "/Volumes/E/Music/My Music/! NEW IMPORT/02 - Pedacito de Cielo.mp3" rather than what you saw. You would get "E_/Music/My Music/! NEW IMPORT/02 - Pedacito de Cielo.mp3" if the PL rule (Rule 1 = E:\|/Volumes/E/) wasn't set. I think. I can't check properly without a Mac. I did check with my test Portable Library, using RM&CF, and it renamed the file "G:\Music\AC_DC\'74 Jailbreak\01 Jailbreak.mp3" to "\\WILMA\Music\AC_DC\'74 Jailbreak\01 Jailbreak.mp3" as expected. That isn't desireable, but it can be fixed using RM&CF to "Find & Replace" "\\WILMA" with "G:" using the "Update database to point to new location (no file rename, move, or copy)" function only.

So the workaround would be to only do DB edits that change the file location on one of the Windows PCs, or if you makes those changes on the Mac, fix the path using RM&CF "Find & Replace" afterwards.


The colon would be changed to an underscore because a colon is not a valid character for a path, been on a Mac.

[tangolovers]

No. Now that I know:
Mostly a question for Matt, but I think you should be able to do any DB editing you wish on the Mac except anything that updates the [Filename (path)] field. Tags should be fine, as should Views, Playlists, and so on.

Ok... I hope Matt is reading.    For sure, I know edits to Filename(name) causes the path to update, so that's a bummer if that's the case.  But at least it's a lot of progress from where we were before Portable Library!! 

I would have expected editing on the Mac to update the [Filename] to "/Volumes/E/Music/My Music/! NEW IMPORT/02 - Pedacito de Cielo.mp3" rather than what you saw. You would get "E_/Music/My Music/! NEW IMPORT/02 - Pedacito de Cielo.mp3" if the PL rule (Rule 1 = E:\|/Volumes/E/) wasn't set. I think. I can't check properly without a Mac. I did check with my test Portable Library, using RM&CF, and it renamed the file "G:\Music\AC_DC\'74 Jailbreak\01 Jailbreak.mp3" to "\\WILMA\Music\AC_DC\'74 Jailbreak\01 Jailbreak.mp3" as expected. That isn't desireable, but it can be fixed using RM&CF to "Find & Replace" "\\WILMA" with "G:" using the "Update database to point to new location (no file rename, move, or copy)" function only.

So the workaround would be to only do DB edits that change the file location on one of the Windows PCs, or if you makes those changes on the Mac, fix the path using RM&CF "Find & Replace" afterwards.

The colon would be changed to an underscore because a colon is not a valid character for a path, been on a Mac.

Yeah, I don't understand why /Volumes is necessary in PL Rule, but it doesn't display in the base path name.  And the "/E_/" still has me baffled.  I just can't figure out what would cause this, but it's probably a moot point if I have to reset the path with RM&CF anyhow.   

Regarding the colon being changed to an underscore, are you saying that when it tries to change the base path it automatically converts the colon to an underscore?  Seems rather odd...  but ok.

Hopefully Matt will have some insight on editing from various platforms.  Boy, if that would be possible it really elevates the value of Portable Library!!

[RoderickGI]

/Volumes is needed in the PL rule because Macs use a mount point, and not drive letters. The name of the mount point on your Mac is /Volumes/E.
/Volumes doesn't show in the Base Path because you haven't selected it before, and you haven't browsed to it using the RM&CF Browse button. I can browse to and select \\WILMA\Music in my Test Portable Library and select that location.

I did some more testing of the RM&CF function in my Test Portable Library, and I conclude that a file rename, move, or copy done on the Mac needs to be done in two steps. First rename, move, or copy the file using the "Rename (moves files if directory changes)" function, then fix the "broken" [Filename] field using the "Update database to point to new location (no file rename, move, or copy)" function. As those are two different functions, the two steps can't be done together. I tried.

MC needs to rename, move, copy, and tag the files using the real path to that file, which on your Mac is /Volumes/E. But if you transfer that Library back to a PC, the Library needs to point to E:. The only way that can be done is in two steps at the moment. It wouldn't be hard to do. Just make all the changes you wish to on the Mac, then before backing up the Library to move back to a PC, filter a View to only show files that start with "/Volumes/E", then run RM&CF using the "Update database to point to new location (no file rename, move, or copy)" function with "Find & Replace" only to replace "/Volumes/E" with "E:".

That is a lot less work, and much more reliable, than the process you were using before.


":" isn't a valid character for a file name or path on a Mac, so MC will convert it to an underscore if you are doing something that tried to change the filename.


If you still don't understand, tell me what edits exactly were you doing when you saw the "/E_/"? What function were you using? Shows a screenshot.

[HaWi]

Ok... I hope Matt is reading.    For sure, I know edits to Filename(name) causes the path to update, so that's a bummer if that's the case.  But at least it's a lot of progress from where we were before Portable Library!! 

Yeah, I don't understand why /Volumes is necessary in PL Rule, but it doesn't display in the base path name.  And the "/E_/" still has me baffled.  I just can't figure out what would cause this, but it's probably a moot point if I have to reset the path with RM&CF anyhow.   

Regarding the colon being changed to an underscore, are you saying that when it tries to change the base path it automatically converts the colon to an underscore?  Seems rather odd...  but ok.

Hopefully Matt will have some insight on editing from various platforms.  Boy, if that would be possible it really elevates the value of Portable Library!!

I can confirm that editing from different platforms works, at least between MacOS and Linux. I have my library on the NAS which runs the Linux version of MC26 in Docker. I edit this library from my Mac. It's a little slower but works perfectly. My media are on the NAS as well so I point to them on the Mac directly (no portable rule). On the NAS MC installation I use a portable rule to access the same media files.

[tangolovers]

That is a lot less work, and much more reliable, than the process you were using before.

":" isn't a valid character for a file name or path on a Mac, so MC will convert it to an underscore if you are doing something that tried to change the filename.

If you still don't understand, tell me what edits exactly were you doing when you saw the "/E_/"? What function were you using? Shows a screenshot.

Thank you for the details!  I do agree PL is a lot less work than before.  It's really wonderful.  No complaints!  I can live with the 2 step process for now.     As a side note, it would be sure nice if they would allow edits to the Portable Library Rule, since it often takes several tries to get it right.

As for the "E_"....  since the base path is E:\, I guess it's always going to add an underscore whenever I make an edit because it has to convert the path to Mac.  I guess it'll just get handled in step 2 - RM&CF!   

So, I'm down to my last issue which is the Special Characters, but no replies to my separate post yet... maybe the subject needs to be tweaked. 

I can confirm that editing from different platforms works, at least between MacOS and Linux. I have my library on the NAS which runs the Linux version of MC26 in Docker. I edit this library from my Mac. It's a little slower but works perfectly. My media are on the NAS as well so I point to them on the Mac directly (no portable rule). On the NAS MC installation I use a portable rule to access the same media files.

HaWi -- are you saying you can rename or change Filename and it doesn't update the base path the the current platform?  I can't imagine the base path for MacOS & Linux are the same.  Curious how this works for you.  Anyhow, congratulations!

[tangolovers]

I did some more testing of the RM&CF function in my Test Portable Library, and I conclude that a file rename, move, or copy done on the Mac needs to be done in two steps. First rename, move, or copy the file using the "Rename (moves files if directory changes)" function, then fix the "broken" [Filename] field using the "Update database to point to new location (no file rename, move, or copy)" function. As those are two different functions, the two steps can't be done together. I tried.

MC needs to rename, move, copy, and tag the files using the real path to that file, which on your Mac is /Volumes/E. But if you transfer that Library back to a PC, the Library needs to point to E:. The only way that can be done is in two steps at the moment. It wouldn't be hard to do. Just make all the changes you wish to on the Mac, then before backing up the Library to move back to a PC, filter a View to only show files that start with "/Volumes/E", then run RM&CF using the "Update database to point to new location (no file rename, move, or copy)" function with "Find & Replace" only to replace "/Volumes/E" with "E:".

Roderick -- It all seems so logical, but I just tried this and couldn't get it to work.   After changing a Filename I went back to RM&CF > Update > Find & Replace and entered "/Volumes/E" with "E:" (everything else unchecked), but it didn't reflect those changes in New column.  It seems MC knows I'm on a Mac and it doesn't want to accept a PC path.   Help!

[RoderickGI]

Hmmm. Well, I couldn't test on a Mac, so I couldn't see that issue.

I expected the Find & Replace to just replace what was in the Library. I guess the PL rule is being used on the New column and reverting the "E:" to "/Volumes/E". Is that what is happening, the New column just begins with "/Volumes/E" as it is in the Original column? Or the New column just says <no change>?

I think this is one for Matt. How was this issue expected to work, if it was, or can it be made to work?

[HaWi]

HaWi -- are you saying you can rename or change Filename and it doesn't update the base path the the current platform?  I can't imagine the base path for MacOS & Linux are the same.  Curious how this works for you.  Anyhow, congratulations!

I am sorry, I don't think I have explained what I did very well. Let me try again.
I have only one MC library that is located on the NAS (Linux/Docker Container). My media are also on the NAS in a folder called music. From my iMac, the path to the media is /Volumes/music.
From the MC26 in Docker, the path is data/music.
On the Mac, from where I mostly modify the library, the Base Path is /Volumes/music. On the Mac, no portable rule is set. On the Mac, the [filename (Path)] is /Volumes/music.
On the MC26 in Docker, I set the Portable Rule to /Volumes|/data. The MC26 server in Docker is running 24/7 and I can also open the MC26 (in Docker) app on my browser. In MC26 in Docker, the Base Path is /data/music, the [file name (path)] is /Volumes/data, as on the Mac. Because of the portable rule, music can be served from MC26 in Docker because the [filename (Path)] is translated from /Volumes/music to /data/music.
However, if I were to change media files (updating tags, rename files, move folders) using the MC26 in Docker app, the Base Path has to be /data/music, i.e. pointing from the MC26 in Docker to the media.
It looks like Portable Rules and the Base Path are not library specific but MC installation specific. Hence, you can have multiple Base Paths for a single library, depending on which MC installation you use to load the library. The Portable Rule is used to translate a [filename (Path)], which is library specific, to a path that leads to the media from a different installation than the one that uses identical Base Path and [filename (Path)].
So I believe that what you need is one MC installation that is the "home base", where the Base Path and the [filename (Path)] are identical and where no portable rule is set. In my case the Mac.
On all other installations of MC, a Portable Rule is needed to translate the path to the media from the "home base" path (as exists in the library) to the correct path for that particular installation (in my case from /Volumes to /data). If you want to change media files from any other MC installation than the "home base" then there, the Base Path has to be set to point from that installation to the actual media. In my case, the MC Docker installation which can only access media in /data/music.
I hope this is clearer. Please don't hesitate to ask further questions if needed.
cheers,
Hans

[tangolovers]

Hello Hans -- thank you for the long and detailed explanation.  But I have to admit, I had a hard time following some of it.

When you refer to Base Path in this context, do you mean the path displayed when you do "Locate" or RM&CF?  That was my understanding.

I created my source Library on an external HD "E" from a PC, so on my PC's I don't need a Portable Library.  On the Mac I use portable library rule E:|/Volumes/E which all seems to work fine until I try to edit a file on the Mac.

On the Mac, when I simply Rename Filename(name) here's what happens: 

    1) Filename(path) changed from from E:\Music\My Music... to /Volumes/E/Music/My Music...
    2) Playback failed on that file
    3) It deleted the original file on the HD "E" (yikes!)
    4) Base Path (i.e. using Locate or Original path in RM&CF) was still /Volumes/E/Music/My Music...

What's really scary is that the deleted file can only be recovered if you have a backup of your music handy.  Fortunately, I was able to restore it from a backup, but very concerning that simply changing Filename(name) could make my files disappear from the HD!

As for the "Home Base" you are referring to, I believe that is when my "E" drive is plugged into either of my PCs.  And it remains correct after performing the edits.  What changes is the Filename(path). 

I'm just not understanding how it's possible to edit these files on the Mac and have it continue to work on the Mac (and the PC - my main platform) as well as updating the HD "E" without deleting the files.  It sounds like you had luck with this which is why I was curious... but I'm not comprehending how it doesn't change your Filename(path) and break everything.   

I can certainly live with not being able to do edits on the Mac, although it would be a huge plus.

[RoderickGI]

The file wasn't deleted but was moved to the Mac and put in the /Volumes/E/Music/My Music... folder. RM&CF did what it was asked.

Hans' situation is very different to yours, as he has only one copy of the Library, and it resides on his NAS all the time. He isn't copying the Library over to the PC at all. That changes how RM&CF functions.

Not editing on the Mac is the best current solution. At least not editing anything to do with file names and locations. Tagging and similar changes should work fine.

We shall have to wait to see if Matt has time to come up with a solution otherwise.

[tangolovers]

But I didn't run RM&CM, I only used it to view the Original path.  Does it get used by default when you change Filename(name) using Rename? 

I think I too am only using one Library and one DB if I'm not mistaken.  When I move my external HD to my Mac I do a Library Restore from the external HD rather than copying it to the Mac.  Although it didn't occur to me to change my File Locations for Library Backups to the "E" drive, I just hadn't gotten that far yet as I haven't done a Library Backup from the Mac. 

Anyhow, I will heed your advice for now. 

[HaWi]

Hello Hans -- thank you for the long and detailed explanation.  But I have to admit, I had a hard time following some of it.

When you refer to Base Path in this context, do you mean the path displayed when you do "Locate" or RM&CF?  That was my understanding. 

Yes, that is it.

I created my source Library on an external HD "E" from a PC, so on my PC's I don't need a Portable Library.  On the Mac I use portable library rule E:|/Volumes/E which all seems to work fine until I try to edit a file on the Mac.

On the Mac, when I simply Rename Filename(name) here's what happens: 

    1) Filename(path) changed from from E:\Music\My Music... to /Volumes/E/Music/My Music...
    2) Playback failed on that file
    3) It deleted the original file on the HD "E" (yikes!)
    4) Base Path (i.e. using Locate or Original path in RM&CF) was still /Volumes/E/Music/My Music...

What's really scary is that the deleted file can only be recovered if you have a backup of your music handy.  Fortunately, I was able to restore it from a backup, but very concerning that simply changing Filename(name) could make my files disappear from the HD!

As Roderick said, the file was moved, based on the Base Path. I had similar issues with files seemingly disappearing (but actually being moved) until I got the Base Path and Portable Rule correct on both ends.

As for the "Home Base" you are referring to, I believe that is when my "E" drive is plugged into either of my PCs.  And it remains correct after performing the edits.  What changes is the Filename(path). 

Yes, but you can make either of your machines the "Home Base". On this machine, the Base Path and [filename (path)] are identical. This is assuming you are loading the same library from all machines.

I'm just not understanding how it's possible to edit these files on the Mac and have it continue to work on the Mac (and the PC - my main platform) as well as updating the HD "E" without deleting the files.  It sounds like you had luck with this which is why I was curious... but I'm not comprehending how it doesn't change your Filename(path) and break everything.
 

I was assuming your library is on the same external drive as the media and that you are using that same library both on Windows and the Mac.
I believe it works this way: When you edit on the "Home Base" machine (no Portable Rule) everything works as usual. When you load the same library from a different location, and want to edit fields that change the media files, the Base Path needs to point to where the media are, so it is different from the Base Path on the "Home Base". I believe, but I am not certain, that the Portable Rule only pertains to serving the music for playing. Because the path to the media is different from the "Home Base" Path, the Portable Rule needs to translate it so that the server correctly points to the media folder. However, the path to translate is different from the Base Path in that it does not contain the actual media folder itself, but anything above it, I believe. In my case the Base Path is /data/music (NAS) and /Volumes/music (iMac) but the the Portable Rule on the NAS is /Volumes|/data.
I think I know where the difference to your case comes from: My NAS Base Path is /data/music because in /data there is a Symbolic Link that points to /music, where all the media folders and files are. So it is actually equivalent to /Volumes/music on the iMac. Sorry, I know this is complicated but should be easier in your case because in your case the Base Path should always point to the media folder. So if your music is in a folder E:\Music\My Music on Windows then that is the Base Path on Windows. On the Mac, the Base Path would likely be /Volumes/E/Music/My Music. The Portable Rule would probably be E:\Music|/Volumes/E/Music.
The [filename (path)] should always remain E:\Music\My Music.
I noticed the <Space> between My and Music. That might generate an issue in translation between Windows and MacOS. I would remove it and rename the folder to MyMusic.

Sorry for the many edits!

[HaWi]

One more thing. From what you described, I believe that you are still using different libraries. One on each machine, it looks like. If you want to use only one library you would have to move it from your Windows machine to the portable drive. That shouldn't be too much of a problem once you have located the library. Unfortunately, I do not know where MC keeps libraries in Windows. There may be better methods than copy/paste to create a copy of your library on the external drive. I'm sure Roderick or Matt can help with that if you want to do that.
If you do that make sure you keep frequent backups on one of your machines so that you can restore to the drive if necessary. The same is true of the media as well.

[RoderickGI]

But I didn't run RM&CM, I only used it to view the Original path.  Does it get used by default when you change Filename(name) using Rename? 

Are you sure you didn't click OK instead of Cancel?

I think I too am only using one Library and one DB if I'm not mistaken.

You are using multiple Libraries, which happen to be copies of each other. Hans has only one Library that is stored on his NAS and never gets moved.

You could put the MC Library on the E: drive, and open that from each computer. But you will see a slow down of MC functions, as it needs to access the data via USB instead of SATA. There may be other issues. Generally putting a Library on an external drive or NAS is not recommended, although it does work, as Hans' configuration proves.

There may be better methods than copy/paste to create a copy of your library on the external drive.

There certainly is a better way, and it is the way Susie is doing it: Backup the Library on the source installation, Restore the backup to the target installation. That transfers everything necessary except Cover Art. Thumbnails are rebuilt on each computer, however external Cover Art files in the Cover Art directory aren't transferred. It would probably pay to have the Cover Art directory moved to the external drive... but that may create problems for the Mac, unless the PL rules also apply to Cover Art lookups. We haven't really discussed Cover Art use with a Portable Library in detail. It may be fine.


Oh. The space in the "My Music" directory name is fine. MC handles that no problem, on Mac and Windows.

[HaWi]

There certainly is a better way, and it is the way Susie is doing it: Backup the Library on the source installation, Restore the backup to the target installation. That transfers everything necessary except Cover Art. Thumbnails are rebuilt on each computer, however external Cover Art files in the Cover Art directory aren't transferred. It would probably pay to have the Cover Art directory moved to the external drive... but that may create problems for the Mac, unless the PL rules also apply to Cover Art lookups. We haven't really discussed Cover Art use with a Portable Library in detail. It may be fine.

But wouldn't that still install the restored library on the Laptop and not on the external drive?
I do admit that doing it my way slows down things for editing etc. quite a bit but I can access my music 24/7 from anywhere without having to worry whether my iMac is running, and that is worth it, to me.
Regarding Cover Art,  I set up MC to store Cover Art in the media files themselves and save a copy into Folder.png. That generates a bit of space overhead but I find it very convenient. When things go wrong, which they actually do frequently for me (but that's a separate topic, though), the Cover Art can be restored very easily this way.

Oh. The space in the "My Music" directory name is fine. MC handles that no problem, on Mac and Windows.

good to know!

[RoderickGI]

But wouldn't that still install the restored library on the Laptop and not on the external drive?

Nope. The Library Backup would be Restored to wherever the Library was.

Susie would just have to create a new Library on the E: drive, then Restore a backup to it. But I don't recommend doing so.

The way you are handling Cover Art works fine for audio. But it gets a bit messy with video, and special Cover Art for Artists, Composers, etc.

[tangolovers]

Are you sure you didn't click OK instead of Cancel?

Yep, I'm sure!  I did this several times and had the same result just to be sure I wasn't crazy.  When I do a Rename in Audio View (not in RM&CF) is it taking any instructions from RM&CF?  I sure hope not, but I definitely got some weird results by having my files deleted from the HD. 

You are using multiple Libraries, which happen to be copies of each other. Hans has only one Library that is stored on his NAS and never gets moved.

You could put the MC Library on the E: drive, and open that from each computer. But you will see a slow down of MC functions, as it needs to access the data via USB instead of SATA. There may be other issues. Generally putting a Library on an external drive or NAS is not recommended, although it does work, as Hans' configuration proves.

There certainly is a better way, and it is the way Susie is doing it: Backup the Library on the source installation, Restore the backup to the target installation. That transfers everything necessary except Cover Art. Thumbnails are rebuilt on each computer, however external Cover Art files in the Cover Art directory aren't transferred. It would probably pay to have the Cover Art directory moved to the external drive... but that may create problems for the Mac, unless the PL rules also apply to Cover Art lookups. We haven't really discussed Cover Art use with a Portable Library in detail. It may be fine.

Oh. The space in the "My Music" directory name is fine. MC handles that no problem, on Mac and Windows.

I thought I was only using one Library because both my DB & Library are on the "E" drive now.  Previously I was running everything from PC#1 "C" drive, but I moved the DB & Library to external "E" drive to be the source (using your instructions).  My thinking was I could do all my edits to the portable drive "E", wherever I'm using it, rather than always having to go back to the PC.   Based on your comments, I'm not sure if I was supposed to move any other files (i.e. Thumbnails) to "E".

So, are you saying that when I do a Restore Library it creates a local library rather than working from the "E" drive?  If that's the case, I didn't realize this.  You say it's a better way, I guess I'll take your word for it and keep doing edits on PC#1 only.

[HaWi]

If you created a new library on E:\ and then restored it from your original library then you are using the library on E:\
In Panel view on the left under Playing Now it has the library name next to Playing from but I haven't figured out how to reveal where that is located.

[RoderickGI]

When I do a Rename in Audio View (not in RM&CF) is it taking any instructions from RM&CF?  I sure hope not, but I definitely got some weird results by having my files deleted from the HD.

When you use the right-click Rename (F2) function in MC Standard View, MC doesn't use the RM&CF settings, but editing the [Filename], [Filename (path)] or [Filename (name)] fields will move and/or rename the file. MC isn't deleting the files. It is moving them, unless you escape out of the Rename function. If you press Enter and there has been change to the fields, perhaps due to the Portable Library functionality, then the file will be moved/renamed. In my Windows only PL Test Library using the Rename functionality doesn't change the fields I edit though. I can't test for your situation with the Mac.

I thought I was only using one Library because both my DB & Library are on the "E" drive now.

First some terminology so we are talking about the same things.
MC Library - This is the set of index files that mostly end with "jmd".
Media Files - This is all your music, video, image, and any other media files MC is managing. I think this is what you are calling your Database (DB) Susie.
Database - In the JRiver Media Center context, this is portions of the data held in the Library. For example, MC has "Main", "CD", "Playing Now", "Explorer", "Removed", etc. databases.

So, my understanding is that when you move from PC1 to the Mac, you do a Library Backup on PC1 to a location on the E: drive, and the once the external drive is connected to the Mac you launch MC and do a Library Restore. If that is still what you are doing, then the Library you are using for your Mac is actually on the Mac hard drive, and not the E: drive. You just have a backup of the Library on the E: drive. Again, if you are still following this process, the Library you are using on the Mac is probably in the default location for Macs, as defined in the Library Wiki article. i.e. /Users/<user name>/Library/Application Support/J River/Media Center <version>/Library/

As per previous discussion, you could actually move your Library to the E: drive, but it would slow down MC functions. Read the Library Wiki article I linked to above.

So, are you saying that when I do a Restore Library it creates a local library rather than working from the "E" drive?

It doesn't create a local Library, but updates the existing local Library with the contents of the Library Backup.

If Thumbnails and Cover Art are working for you, don't do anything with them.

In Panel view on the left under Playing Now it has the library name next to Playing from but I haven't figured out how to reveal where that is located.

For a local Library, in Standard View click on the Library name under Playing Now, and the path to the Library will be shown up near the top. It is also shown in a tooltip if you hover the mouse over the Library name under Playing Now.
If you are using a MC Client connected to a MC Server, the Library in use is next to the default location for a local Library, in a directory called "Connected Library". i.e. On Windows 10, it is in "C:\Users\<user name>\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center <version>\Connected Library". You can't change that.

I don't know specifically for Linux where the Default Library is stored, but you can easily find all Libraries on a drive by searching for one of the jmd files. i.e. Search for "field (album).jmd", then check the path where they are found.

Of course, you can put a Library anywhere you want to. I have several test Libraries scattered around my hard drives. The Wiki only refers to where the Default Library is stored.

[HaWi]

For a local Library, in Standard View click on the Library name under Playing Now, and the path to the Library will be shown up near the top. It is also shown in a tooltip if you hover the mouse over the Library name under Playing Now.
If you are using a MC Client connected to a MC Server, the Library in use is next to the default location for a local Library, in a directory called "Connected Library". i.e. On Windows 10, it is in "C:\Users\<user name>\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center <version>\Connected Library". You can't change that.

I don't know specifically for Linux where the Default Library is stored, but you can easily find all Libraries on a drive by searching for one of the jmd files. i.e. Search for "field (album).jmd", then check the path where they are found.

Of course, you can put a Library anywhere you want to. I have several test Libraries scattered around my hard drives. The Wiki only refers to where the Default Library is stored.

Thank you Roderick. That is good to know. I didn't get the info through MC because my library is remote (on the NAS). I do know where it is located but the process looking for it was not useful for this discussion.

[tangolovers]

When you use the right-click Rename (F2) function in MC Standard View, MC doesn't use the RM&CF settings, but editing the [Filename], [Filename (path)] or [Filename (name)] fields will move and/or rename the file. MC isn't deleting the files. It is moving them, unless you escape out of the Rename function.

I aware that if anything that affects the path changes will move the files.  But when the files disappeared from my HD, they were nowhere to be found on my Mac.  Otherwise I would have just copied them back.   

First some terminology so we are talking about the same things.
Media Files - This is all your music, video, image, and any other media files MC is managing. I think this is what you are calling your Database (DB) Susie.
Database - In the JRiver Media Center context, this is portions of the data held in the Library. For example, MC has "Main", "CD", "Playing Now", "Explorer", "Removed", etc. databases.

Yes, you are absolutely correct!  I have been referring to my Media Files as my DB.  I will try to remember that, but now I don't understand what a MC DB is (and so embarrassed to admit).  The only "Main" I know about is "Main Library" under Playing Now, and I don't understand or see "CD", "Explorer", "Removed" anywhere.  Feeling a bit confused now... help! 

So, my understanding is that when you move from PC1 to the Mac, you do a Library Backup on PC1 to a location on the E: drive, and the once the external drive is connected to the Mac you launch MC and do a Library Restore. If that is still what you are doing, then the Library you are using for your Mac is actually on the Mac hard drive, and not the E: drive. You just have a backup of the Library on the E: drive. Again, if you are still following this process, the Library you are using on the Mac is probably in the default location for Macs, as defined in the Library Wiki article. i.e. /Users/<user name>/Library/Application Support/J River/Media Center <version>/Library/

Yes, I think you've described what I am doing fairly accurately.  I thought I was 'moving' my Library to E: by backing it up there and by pointing File Location for Library Backups to E:.  So, I guess I don't understand the difference between moving it and backing it up to E:.   That said, never changed any File Locations on PC or Mac, so they are all still pointing to C: drive on PC and /Users/ on Mac.  Should I be leaving it this way or updating File Locations to all point to E: on the portable drive?   I hope this isn't another can of worms... 

The link for Library Wiki doesn't open... it says "Safari can't find the server... Safari can't open the page c/Users/... Safari can't find the server "c". "   But yes, backups are being stored on my Mac at /Users/susiemelo/... because I never changed that location after setting up Portable Library and deleting local files.  Am I doing the right thing leaving all File Locations pointing locally on the PC & Mac rather than to E: or /Volumes/E/?  I'm wondering what the effect would be if I changed them all to point to E: or /Volumes/E/ respectively. 

Fortunately, my Thumbnails & Cover Art seem to be working fine for now, but I think that may have been accidental luck because my music was originally on my Mac and when I deleted the music files I did not delete any locally stored Thumbnails, Cover Art or anything else related to MC.  Now I'm questioning my understanding...  Had I never had my music & MC on the Mac in the first place, how would Thumbnails & CA (or any other vital data) be recognized by MC-Mac using Portable Library?  I'm wondering what I should be doing to make sure I am working from the same set of images (and other data for that matter) for both machines? 

[RoderickGI]

I aware that if anything that affects the path changes will move the files.  But when the files disappeared from my HD, they were nowhere to be found on my Mac.  Otherwise I would have just copied them back.   

Then that is going to remain a mystery, as I don't have the environment you have to test. Given that you aren't actually saving any changes, this would be a first in that MC is deleting a file for which it shouldn't have made changes. Maybe the PL rule is applied when you edit the filename field, and that creates an issue. But it shouldn't. I can edit the [Filename] field to any garbage I like, then press Escape rather that Enter, and nothing changes or happens. The On Disk (external) function still works, and the file is there. Mystery.

Feeling a bit confused now... help! 

I was just showing off my knowledge of the internal workings of MC. You don't need to know much about the Databases inside the MC Library, and you won't see them usually. But sometimes it is handy to understand a bit about them.

To see the list of Database names, and maybe their contents, create an empty View in the Audio section, then in "Set rules for file display" add a rule in the "Modify Results" section by changing "No modification" to "Limit database to", then click on the right DropDown list. You will see the names of all the Databases inside MC. You can play around with that to see what is inside the various Databases. Perhaps uncheck the "Use parent scheme rules for file display" so that you will see more than just Audio files.

I thought I was 'moving' my Library to E: by backing it up there and by pointing File Location for Library Backups to E:. 

Nope. It is just like any file backup process, but puts the MC Library and Settings into a ZIP file rather than backing up the files to another location. You can't open that ZIP file as a Library, until you Restore it into an existing Library.

So, I guess I don't understand the difference between moving it and backing it up to E:.   That said, never changed any File Locations on PC or Mac, so they are all still pointing to C: drive on PC and /Users/ on Mac. 

To move the Library to the E: drive you would have to create a new Library on the E: drive using the "Add Library" function, and then Restore one of your backups into that new Library. Then turn off the setting in MC that says always load the Default Library (in Startup Options), then load the new Library. After that MC would always load the last Library it was using, which would be the Library on E:, unless you changed that at some time.

Note also that the location of a Library isn't defined in the "File Location" Options. That is for other stuff. The location of the Library is defined when you create a new Library.

Should I be leaving it this way or updating File Locations to all point to E: on the portable drive?   I hope this isn't another can of worms... 

For now, you should leave it the way you have it. Once everything is working, and you understand everything I have written above, you could create a Library on the E: drive to test if it is too slow. You can always backup that Library and go back to using the Libraries on the PC and Mac drives, if it was too slow. But if you do test and go back, delete the Library on the E: drive to avoid confusion in future.

The link for Library Wiki doesn't open...

Oops. My error. You could have searched the Wiki.  Here it is: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Library

Am I doing the right thing leaving all File Locations pointing locally on the PC & Mac rather than to E: or /Volumes/E/?  I'm wondering what the effect would be if I changed them all to point to E: or /Volumes/E/ respectively. 

I think, but haven't fully checked, a lot of those location settings are MC installation specific, rather than part of the Library. I'm not sure. I would be leaving them pointing locally unless there was an issue with some functionality. Most of them are just defaults for actions you can take in MC, and you don't have to use the default when you actually take those actions. Cover Art may benefit from being moved to the external drive, as I think I mentioned earlier. But I'm not sure the PL rule would be applied to looking up Cover Art. The "Conversion Cache" and "Program Files" settings are sort of in the same boat. You would have to test that. It could be a mini project.

Fortunately, my Thumbnails & Cover Art seem to be working fine for now, but I think that may have been accidental luck because my music was originally on my Mac and when I deleted the music files I did not delete any locally stored Thumbnails, Cover Art or anything else related to MC.  Now I'm questioning my understanding...  Had I never had my music & MC on the Mac in the first place, how would Thumbnails & CA (or any other vital data) be recognized by MC-Mac using Portable Library?  I'm wondering what I should be doing to make sure I am working from the same set of images (and other data for that matter) for both machines? 

The Thumbnails Database is always located on the computer where MC is installed. It is tied to the MC installation. You can't change where it is located. MC builds and updates the Thumbnails Database when it needs to. You will always have Thumbnail Databases on each of your computers.

You can only move the Cover Art location. Of course, for Audio files where the Cover Art is inside the file or next to the media file in the same folder, there is no issue. The Cover Art is on the external drive and moves with it.

For other Cover Art, such as for TV Shows (Series and Season Cover Art), TV Logos, Artist and Composer images, Home Videos and downloaded YouTube videos, etc., right now you probably do have three sets of Cover Art images, one on each computer. If that isn't an issue, leave it alone. If you need Cover Art for those media types, and you start seeing issues, ask for help again. Moving the Cover Art location in Library settings can be disastrous, deleting files, or whole drives, if you aren't careful. Moving the location from three computers onto one external hard drive would need a specific approach. So, for now, don't if you don't need to.

[tangolovers]

Thank you for the wealth of information!! 

I will fiddle with DB as soon as I have a chance.  Right now I need to clean up my "Media Files"  , to fix the non-playing ones on the Mac by doing the actual edits on the PC.   Meanwhile, very happy how things are working so far.

I've already made a couple of backups of my music, making the "Path" to each "E:", since I don't ordinarily connect any 2 at the same time.  This works very well so far.

[kkmc996]

Hi Matt,
I am trying to use my windows library on a mac. Running MC31. Followed the instructions but it doesn't work.
Library shows to Windows path. SSD is ExFAT formatted and plugged to the mac.
My rule is: M:\Music\|/Volumes/T9 Media/Music/

If I change the Filename (path) it works. I also restarted, etc. auto import is off...
What do is wrong?

Thanks Karl

[tangolovers]

Hello kkmc996,

I've never replied to anyone on this forum before, so forgive me if things aren't perfect...  but I had exactly the same problem quite some time ago and these guys really helped me.  I ended up documenting my process as detailed and correctly and I could.  I'm not sure if it's 100% accurate, but it has served me well.  I hope it helps you.  I also have instructions for Mac to PC if you need.  It's several years since I modified anything so I am not up to date on latest versions of MC.  Also, I do not monitor this forum, so once again, forgive me if I am unable to respond to any questions.

Hi Matt --  Thanks for checking into this.  I'm a bit puzzled why you're testing on Windows rather than Mac, since the playback problem I'm having is on the Mac.  Nevertheless, I understand the need for a new thread.  I really want to keep the momentum going and get these problem solved, but unfortunately,  I have some other really critical issues on my plate that need my attention.  I may have to come back to that issue later.  Thank you again for all your help!!

Please see my attached notes.  I hope you find them helpful!

Susie