Topic: Blu-Ray Audio (Read 4138 times)

dartinbout · « **on:** October 28, 2019, 04:28:17 am »

Please enable the treatment of Blu-ray audio files BDMV files in the same manner as you treat SACD iso. I want to be able to see individual tracks rather than just the BR menu for track selection. MC treats them all as if they are video. I've tried multiple solutions and, baring the gymnastics that would get me a gig with Cirque du Soliel, MC sucks at this wonderful audio format. A recent example is the 50th Anniversary Beatles Abbey Road. I should be able to choose which tracks to listen to and in what format, as if this what it is a music album, not a movie.

Pretty Please?

kr4 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2019, 08:32:24 am »

Quote from: dartinbout on October 28, 2019, 04:28:17 am

Please enable the treatment of Blu-ray audio files BDMV files in the same manner as you treat SACD iso. I want to be able to see individual tracks rather than just the BR menu for track selection. MC treats them all as if they are video. I've tried multiple solutions and, baring the gymnastics that would get me a gig with Cirque du Soliel, MC sucks at this wonderful audio format. A recent example is the 50th Anniversary Beatles Abbey Road. I should be able to choose which tracks to listen to and in what format, as if this what it is a music album, not a movie.

Pretty Please?

Do an MKV back-up and extract the formats you want to individual directories. They will then appear as individual "albums" in MC. Works fine for Abbey Road: 24/96 stereo, 24/96 5.1 and 24/48 8channel.

dartinbout · « **Reply #2 on:** October 31, 2019, 02:39:01 am »

That still doesn't solve the problem. With an SACD iso, I can use various tools to extract individual tracks as separate files. I want the same for BD audio. Other than using Audyssy and breaking the exported files by silence, I still get one large album in the various formats.

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2019, 03:17:00 am »

Rip the BD first, then MC can save the audio only. There's an old thread here somewhere.

JimH · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2019, 06:19:53 am »

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Convert_Format

kr4 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 31, 2019, 08:42:17 am »

Quote from: dartinbout on October 31, 2019, 02:39:01 am

That still doesn't solve the problem. With an SACD iso, I can use various tools to extract individual tracks as separate files. I want the same for BD audio. Other than using Audyssy and breaking the exported files by silence, I still get one large album in the various formats.

I use X Recode3 to extract individual track/formats from the MKV and convert/store them as I choose. Worked just fine for Abbey Road.

jmone · « **Reply #6 on:** October 31, 2019, 05:15:00 pm »

Particles are your friend. Have a look at the 2nd post of Swag of Tools - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,106802.0.html on how to auto create them for Blu-ray Audio. Once done you will have a single entry for each track, and can then make a 1:1 FLAC copy if you want.

TheShoe · « **Reply #7 on:** November 05, 2019, 12:26:38 pm »

particles wont work for gapless as i discovered. so many of my albums are just that. darn prog rock....

my solve is rip the disc for a proper full backup which you can also play with video such as it is. from there you can extract the individual tracks using various tools. i use DVDAE and rip to flac so no re-encoding

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2020, 08:44:01 pm »

Are there any tricks for getting BluRay audio (Dolby Atmos) working with JRiver?
I have extracted the files for Abbey Road from the Blu-ray disc and converted them to .mka files.
However the files don't seem to be recognizied as Dolby Atmos when the bitstream is sent to my Marantz processor. The files are played back as multi-channel with Neural-X. When I sent a movie stream to the processor, it is immediately recognized as an Atmos stream.

I can't find any tools for trying to view the contents of the .mka and verify them. Using MP3Tag, I see that TrueHD is reported as the codec.
The file for track 1 is about 400MB in size which is substantially larger than the 5.1 surround file so I think I have extracted the correct audio stream.

Aside from setting HDMI as the bitstreaming option for JRiver, are there any options to help confirm what is being sent to my processor?

tij · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2020, 12:07:37 am »

MediaInfo detects Atmos reliably in mkv/mka containers. It fails to detect DTSX in some titles though.

and only way to get Atmos working in JRiver is bitstreaming it to receiver that can decode Atmos

EDIT: you might have ripped the wrong track ... Atmos does not necessary comes with TrueHD ... it can be part of EAC3 too

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2020, 09:04:18 am »

I attached a screenshot of the audio tracks that are available. I think the TrueHD Atmos track is the correct choice. If I use the AC-3 track, the file size drops from 400MB to 19MB.

tij · « **Reply #11 on:** July 20, 2020, 10:34:36 am »

TrueHD Atmos indeed is the one you want ... so if you choose just audio there ... the resulting mka audio should trigger Atmos on your receiver if you bitstream.

I suppose it doesn’t ... otherwise you would not be posting here ... out of curiosity ... If you choose video and just TrueHD Atmos track ... does that trigger Atmos on your receiver?

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2020, 11:27:39 am »

Yes! With video included the audio is Atmos.
Unfortunately the file size also increased from 400MB to 730MB for the first track.

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2020, 12:05:10 pm »

Unfortunately there are still some problems.
1) Now that the video stream is included, JRiver is tagging the files are video instead of audio.
2) Most of the tags that were added with MP3Tag have been lost. The album artist and genre remain but the album title and year have been cleared. The files end up in a new folder called "Unassigned" in my artist folder, instead of assigned to a folder with the album name.
3) The JPEG embedded in the file has been lost as well so there is no album artwork. If I play a track as a Media File, then the video stream is displayed along with the audio. If I play a track from the Unassigned folder (as music) then just the audio plays and the screen remains blank.

tij · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2020, 12:14:23 pm »

Quote from: curiousMonkey on July 20, 2020, 12:05:10 pm

Unfortunately there are still some problems.
1) Now that the video stream is included, JRiver is tagging the files are video instead of audio.
2) Most of the tags that were added with MP3Tag have been lost. The album artist and genre remain but the album title and year have been cleared. The files end up in a new folder called "Unassigned" in my artist folder, instead of assigned to a folder with the album name.
3) The JPEG embedded in the file has been lost as well so there is no album artwork. If I play a track as a Media File, then the video stream is displayed along with the audio. If I play a track from the Unassigned folder (as music) then just the audio plays and the screen remains blank.

1) can force MC to classify this as audio (Media Type)
2) once it’s classified as audio can repopulate tags
3) can embed cover art using MKVToolnix that you already using

But what bothers me ... if you just choose “TrueHD Atmos” in MKVToolnix ... result should be mka ... bitstreaming that to your receiver should trigger Atmos ... can you MediaInfo mka to see if MKVToolnix correctly remux Atmos track

EDIT: also when you play mka to your receiver ... does it at least show TrueHD ... if not, you might not be bitstreaming and applying some DSP for audio only ... ATMOS metadata get lost in DSP

EDIT2: you mention that when playing mka ... your receiver displays Neural-X ... that’s DTS feature ... you might have ripped DTS track first time instead of TrueHD Atmos

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2020, 12:27:08 pm »

I collected the date from Media Info. The summaries look almost the same to me aside from the fact that one file includes video.

I will attach a screenshot and the raw output for both versions of the track.

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2020, 12:28:34 pm »

Here are the rest of the attachments.

tij · « **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2020, 12:34:05 pm »

Quote from: dartinbout on October 31, 2019, 02:39:01 am

That still doesn't solve the problem. With an SACD iso, I can use various tools to extract individual tracks as separate files. I want the same for BD audio. Other than using Audyssy and breaking the exported files by silence, I still get one large album in the various formats.

I would assume chapters in BD will denote start of each song ... you can use MKVToolnix to split audio into separate mka based on start of chapters ... can also use time stamps for splitting locations

Splitting video is not as easy though ... MKVToolnix can only split video at certain points (depending on number of reference frames used in encoding) ... if you lucky, split points can be acceptable

there are tools that can split video at arbitrary locations - but that will require reencoding ... aka not lossless process

Other than that ... as others mention ... particles are the only option

tij · « **Reply #18 on:** July 20, 2020, 12:36:55 pm »

Quote from: curiousMonkey on July 20, 2020, 12:28:34 pm

Here are the rest of the attachments.

That file should trigger Atmos on your receiver IF bitstream ... try it

Last time your receiver triggered Neural-X cause you ripped one of DTS track instead

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #19 on:** July 20, 2020, 03:22:05 pm »

The file does NOT trigger Atmos.
The iPad remote for the Marantz receiver says that the input format is PCM and the output format is Multi-in + (whatever the last setting was).
If I start with Multi-in + Neural it says Neural and if I start with Dolby Surround it says Dolby Surround.

It is frustrating that the tags are also mangled because it is tedious making corrections on my HTPC. I generally don't have a keyboard attached because I can get everything done with a mouse and the various remote apps on my iPad.

On another topic, is there an easy way to remove all of the files that have just been imported as "Unassigned" without manually using the delete feature (remove from library) for each track? It would be nice if you could right click on the folder icon in JRiver and just apply all actions to the entire folder.

tij · « **Reply #20 on:** July 20, 2020, 08:32:13 pm »

Quote from: curiousMonkey on July 20, 2020, 03:22:05 pm

The file does NOT trigger Atmos.
The iPad remote for the Marantz receiver says that the input format is PCM and the output format is Multi-in + (whatever the last setting was).
If I start with Multi-in + Neural it says Neural and if I start with Dolby Surround it says Dolby Surround.

It is frustrating that the tags are also mangled because it is tedious making corrections on my HTPC. I generally don't have a keyboard attached because I can get everything done with a mouse and the various remote apps on my iPad.

On another topic, is there an easy way to remove all of the files that have just been imported as "Unassigned" without manually using the delete feature (remove from library) for each track? It would be nice if you could right click on the folder icon in JRiver and just apply all actions to the entire folder.

"Input PCM" strongly suggest that you are not bitstreaming (aka MC is decoding TrueHD Atmos track to PCM and probably applying some DSP) ... please check your Audio settings

Also dont forget to check your Zone settings too ... your mka might not be playing to "bitstream zone" depending on how you set up your zones

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #21 on:** July 20, 2020, 08:47:46 pm »

I will review the settings one more time when I am next using my home theater.
However I would like to point out that as I mentioned in my original post, Atmos works just fine when I switch to a standard movie file.
We also don't have an explanation about why adding video to the file makes everything work just fine.
Since JRiver is supposed to just pass the bitstream along to the processor, I am starting to wonder if this is an issue with the Marantz 7703.

I don't think I am using multiple zones.

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #22 on:** July 20, 2020, 09:19:57 pm »

I completed one final experiment.
Using the Atmos movie that works I created an audio only .mka file.
This stripped file also fails to bitstream.

When I switched back to the Atmos movie file, Atmos was detected immediately.

tij · « **Reply #23 on:** July 20, 2020, 11:05:22 pm »

Quote from: curiousMonkey on July 20, 2020, 09:19:57 pm

I completed one final experiment.
Using the Atmos movie that works I created an audio only .mka file.
This stripped file also fails to bitstream.

When I switched back to the Atmos movie file, Atmos was detected immediately.

Check your audio path ... "To view the Audio Path, mouse-over the DSP button at the top-right of the program."

If you bitstreaming ... it should say "Direct" like in attached screenshot (post your screenshot of Audio Path)

There is no way that if you bitstream "TrueHD Atmos" to receiver ... PCM will appear as input on receiver ... in worst case if receiver cannot recognize Atmos - it will at least say TrueHD ... but not PCM which really indicates that MC is doing decoding which should not be if you are bitstreaming.

Regarding Zones ... its possible to set up MC such that one receiver can be multiple zones ... and each zone has different Audio Path ... for example you might want to play flac to receiver with DSP applied, but want to play DSD file untouched to the same receiver

PS. Its possible its MC bug ... but I highly doubt it

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #24 on:** July 21, 2020, 06:30:48 am »

My system uses the DSP channels option set to 5.1 since I have a 5.1.4 configuration.
I tried changing that option to 7.1 and "source channels" but that had no effect on this problem.
That does not really surprise me since I am bitstreaming.

Here is the screenshot when I used the "source channels" setting.

tij · « **Reply #25 on:** July 22, 2020, 04:40:29 am »

Can you post MediaInfo of mka file ... jyst want to make sure it contains Atmos

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #26 on:** July 22, 2020, 09:25:46 am »

See Reply 16 for the MediaInfo details.

tij · « **Reply #27 on:** July 22, 2020, 11:47:25 pm »

This is very strange ... mka definitely contains Atmos ... MC Audio path shows it outputs 8 channel untouched

... yet ... your receiver indicates it is receiving PCM ... and offers to upsample source to multichannel using Dolby Surround or DTS Neural X ... which suggest it is receiving 2 channel audio :/

How are is your HTPC connects to Marantz? HDMI? LAN? ... maybe even 2 HDMI - one for video stuff ... and one for pure audio stuff?

Is it possible your video stuff goes through HDMI and hence Atmos is properly received. While pure audio are streamed to Marantz through LAN ... and somehow that stream is limited to 2 channel on receiver ... so Atmos is received via LAN decoded to 2 channel then offered to up to surround?

Cause if MC bitstream ... it will not decode ... hence your Atmos is send as TrueHD with Atmos metadata ... your receiver is then do decoding ... which means at very least it should say it’s receiving TrueHD

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #28 on:** July 23, 2020, 08:17:52 am »

There is a single HDMI connection between my PC and the Marantz 7703 preamp. I started a conversation with Marantz about this issue as well. It will be interesting to see how they respond.

tij · « **Reply #29 on:** July 23, 2020, 09:43:04 am »

Is your Marantz connected to LAN? ... actually that’s stupid question ... of course it is - as you able to check on it through your iPhone

Can you make sure ... that when you play mka ... it is send to Marantz through HDMI ... and not through DLNA

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #30 on:** July 23, 2020, 05:26:19 pm »

I changed the Network settings and disabled "Use Media Network and enable DLNA".
The Audio Path still shows Direct and the input is flagged as PCM by the Marantz app.
It continues to flag the file with video and audio streams as Dolby Atmos.

The feedback I got from Marantz was that if the preamp is reporting PCM the audio format is wrong and it is not a problem with the processor.

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #31 on:** July 23, 2020, 05:38:14 pm »

The Audio Path looks a little different when I am playing the combined audio/video file.

tij · « **Reply #32 on:** July 23, 2020, 08:22:30 pm »

Are you sure you bitstreaming mka? ... I am not expert on Audio settings but for mka it says “direct connection” instead of “bitstreaming”

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #33 on:** July 23, 2020, 09:13:36 pm »

I am sure it is bitstreaming. All of the Atmos movies work fine.
If you check the bottom of the screenshot, it says Output: WASAPI (bitstreaming).

tij · « **Reply #34 on:** July 23, 2020, 09:35:10 pm »

I can confirm on my system ... cannot bitstream audio only MKA

sorry was too lazy to confirm this ... was hoping you made mistake instead somewhere

I use Dolby Digital 2.0 ... when played with movie audio path shows "bitstreaming" ... when played in audio only MKA audio path shows "direct connection"

tij · « **Reply #35 on:** July 24, 2020, 03:10:27 am »

It’s been confirmed by JRiver that bitstreaming is video only feature ... audio only has separate audio engine that does not have bitstreaming (except for DSD) ... not likely to change “soon” as they said it

I imagine it’s in their low priority as this is rare ... but at least they not writing it off like integration with streaming services

If it’s important to you ... keep reminding them from time to time about it ... dont do it too often though as it can becomes annoying

EnglishTiger · « **Reply #36 on:** July 24, 2020, 03:59:07 am »

tij - Just out of curiosity have you installed and configured "Dolby Access" so that Windows, and by inference MC, knows that the Audio Only Tracks should be streamed via HDMI and not any other "Available Path"?

tij · « **Reply #37 on:** July 24, 2020, 04:54:16 am »

Quote from: EnglishTiger on July 24, 2020, 03:59:07 am

tij - Just out of curiosity have you installed and configured "Dolby Access" so that Windows, and by inference MC, knows that the Audio Only Tracks should be streamed via HDMI and not any other "Available Path"?

Audio only is sent to HDMI in my case ... as confirmed by developers, MC treats audio only by different audio engine (aka video playback has separate audio engine) ... that engines decodes stuff to PCM ... before sending it to Windows/GPU drivers ... so Windows/GPU will only be receiving PCM to be send via HDMI ... no chance for anything else (including “Dolby Access”) to intercept Atmos ... you would not want this anyway ... third party tools able to intercept and meddle with your signal path.

curiousMonkey · « **Reply #38 on:** July 24, 2020, 12:23:46 pm »

Is there an explanation for the audio path results in post #31?
Why does it display 192kHz and 16-bit for Dolby Atmos?

tij · « **Reply #39 on:** July 24, 2020, 12:41:31 pm »

Quote from: curiousMonkey on July 24, 2020, 12:23:46 pm

Is there an explanation for the audio path results in post #31?
Why does it display 192kHz and 16-bit for Dolby Atmos?

Probably reads MKV headers wrong ... it does not really matter anyway ... as TrueHD Atmos track is not touched at all ... and send as is to receiver

In MKA instance ... MC actually decoded TrueHD Atmos track ... so it knows what inside

Hendrik · « **Reply #40 on:** July 24, 2020, 12:45:57 pm »

When bitstreaming, the information shown in the audio path do not correspond to the actual audio properties, since its not even being looked at by Media Center, just forwarded. Instead, the information describe the audio link over HDMI.

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Author Topic: Blu-Ray Audio (Read 4138 times)