Devices > Video Cards, Monitors, Televisions, and Projectors
Dropped frames after changing projectors
wer:
Sorry tij, I misled you. Something you said reminded me.
MadVR will switch to 23.976 fps for FILM mode, IF you have enabled display rate changing in MadVR. I have that turned off, because MadVR has problems changing the display back correctly when playback ends, so it's been years since I saw MadVR auto-change the frame rate for film mode, so I was talking about my configuration, sorry.
Regarding your points:
1. This is correct. Some TV shows are this way, but some TV shows are actually filmed (on film at 24fps).
2. I think Hard-telecined content cannot be "fixed" by IVTC (film mode) because the frames have been altered, so you need video mode for hard-telecined content. Hard-telecined content has essentially been mangled into interlaced video by the DVD mastering process, so you have to treat it as such. A small percentage of movies are treated this way. One example is "No Way Out" with Kevin Costner.
3. Soft telecine is exactly what Film-mode is for; it drops the duplicated frames. This essentially results in 29.97fps video having 23.976fps worth of frames. Almost all movies on DVD are this way.
I've read several times on doom9 that MadVR/LAV will actually never auto-select FILM mode, and that this option in the settings is just misleading. If deinterlacing is automatically activated, it will be video mode, and if you want film mode, you have to force it, either through the file name or through a profile rule. This is consistent with what I have seen.
Hendrik could probably comment definitively on this since LAV is his...
wer:
--- Quote from: tij on September 19, 2020, 10:07:42 am ---EDIT: i think i got what wer was saying ... just tested case (3) and MadVR played it at 29.97 instead of 23.976 ... another headache to solve now :|
--- End quote ---
This is easy to fix, actually.
Madshi once said that hard-telecine cannot be detected. (In other words, after the hard-telecine process, it IS interlaced video, so you just need to leave video deinterlacing on and accept it.)
However, soft-telecine can be detected. MadVR shows this through the "repeated frames" line. If you play soft-telecined material at a 29.97 (or 59.94) display rate, you will see the "repeated frames" count constantly increasing" (it increases by 6/sec at 29.97, and by 12/sec at 59.94).
So if you see that repeated frames count increasing, that's the tip-off it's soft-telecine. This is what I was trying to explain to the OP. If you have MadVR doing the display mode changing, forcing FILM mode will turn on decimation and switch to 23.976. If you have MC doing the display rate changing (as I do), then set the FPS tag to 23.976, and you'll get the correct frame rate in MadVR, although you might still need to force film mode on.
Make sense?
tij:
--- Quote from: wer on September 19, 2020, 12:59:46 pm ---2. I think Hard-telecined content cannot be "fixed" by IVTC (film mode) because the frames have been altered, so you need video mode for hard-telecined content. Hard-telecined content has essentially been mangled into interlaced video by the DVD mastering process, so you have to treat it as such. A small percentage of movies are treated this way. One example is "No Way Out" with Kevin Costner.
--- End quote ---
One of the reason I start slow process of replacing DVD with BluRay ... this interlacing stuff is driving me nuts.
IVTC can work on Hard-telecine theoretically ... if video was put on DVD right after telecine, it should work ... problem is that most production start editing on telecined video ... cutting/splicing resulting in loss of key fields
Futurama PAL DVD seems to be example of postproduction on telecined content ... can play that on both video and film mode ... both modes generate artifacts ... video mode generating lots of small artifacts ... film mode generating big artifacts at some scene changes
Futurama NTSC DVD is even stranger ... mixing progressive with hard telecine
Just nightmare ... i prefer if things works at film mode though ... gives me more time to apply better upscaling
EDIT: Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 1 PAL is Hard-Telecined ... IVTC works great on it (rare example)
wer:
For the content I've tried, the artifacts after trying to IVTC hard-telecine are more objectionable to me than the ones you get with video mode deinterlacing. But it's personal taste I guess.
The most annoying TV content I've personally encountered is the Ken Burns series "Baseball". It intermixes filmed (24fps progressive content) with video-taped TV broadcast material. There is no single deinterlacing setting for MadVR that works perfectly for the entire episode. >:(
tij:
I know exactly what you mean ... whatta mess :(
and lots of stuff i like is only available on DVD
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