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[Manfred]

I have a new rme HDSPe AIO Pro with MC27. In a second step I want to move to active speakers with AES/spdif in.

I want to achieve the following:

4 zones:
Zone 1: Media Renderer with rme HDSPe AIO Pro->AES->Devialet->B&W 804S [MC internal volume diabled]
Zone 2: Media Renderer with rme HDSPe AIO Pro->LCD-2 Headphone  [MC internal Volume enabled]
Zone 3: TV->optical>Media Renderer with rme HDSPe AIO Pro->AES->Devialet->B&W 804S [MC internal volume diabled]
Zone 4: TV->optical>Media Renderer with rme HDSPe AIO Pro->LCD-2 Headphone [MC internal volume enabled]

In the MC Audio Device Setup I have chosen ASIO Hammerfall DSP. I can see the input signal from the TV in Total Mix but I could not build the route and don't see any output signal.

I am struggling with Total Mix how to setup with different configurations for the different zones.

Anybody having experiences with rme Total mix and MC?

[mattkhan]

Are you attempting to go asio line in to mc? If so, it is just a question of opening asio line in on the specified channels.

Best to show your current config (line in dialog + totalmix setup)

[Manfred]

I have not set-up asio line in to mc. Is that a pre-req?

[Manfred]

My Settings as attachments:

[mattkhan]

I have not set-up asio line in to mc. Is that a pre-req?

No it was a question, how do you plan to get audio into MC?

[Manfred]

I get audio in MC:

1. from the Network over Ethernet from my server to my Media Renderer
2. from my TV (optical cable)

[mattkhan]

I don't follow the first, isn't MC your media server?

For the 2nd, I would have thought you have to use asio line in to actually process the audio unless there is something I am missing?

[Manfred]

I have a Client Server model with a MC installed on a media server (46 TB storage) and the media renderer connected to the media server. The media renderer has the rme card.In the old world the media renderer outputs audio through Sotm USB card to the Devialet.

[mattkhan]

Ok so you have zones 1/3 and 2/4 which play to same output, do they have any other different config or so you really have 2 zones and 2 inputs?

[Manfred]

I have 2 type of inputs and 2 type of outputs.

[mattkhan]

A zone in MC is used for 2 things, to change the physical output device and to apply some DSP config.

Is the DSP config the same for each output irrespective of where the audio comes from?

[Manfred]

Zone 1: Media Renderer with rme HDSPe AIO Pro->AES->Devialet->B&W 804S [MC internal volume diabled]
Zone 3: TV->optical>Media Renderer with rme HDSPe AIO Pro->AES->Devialet->B&W 804S [MC internal volume diabled]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Same DSP Settings


Zone 2: Media Renderer with rme HDSPe AIO Pro->LCD-2 Headphone  [MC internal Volume enabled]
Zone 4: TV->optical>Media Renderer with rme HDSPe AIO Pro->LCD-2 Headphone [MC internal volume enabled]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Same DSP Settings with Audeze Reveal Plug-In enabled

[mattkhan]

OK so I think you need just two zones for each physical set of speakers

do you have zones 1 and 3 working already as that is just the usual "MC outputs to some audio device" setup?

[Manfred]

No working zones no sound. I thought that to play from MC to the AES output would be easy but in Total Mix I never see any output signal on the AES output. Total mix has three layers: hardware inputs, software  and hardware outputs. What I don't understand is how mc will show up in the software layer of total mix?

If I am playing from the TV I see a signal in Totalmix in the spdif input but mc does also not appear in the software layer of Totalmix.

[mattkhan]

No working zones no sound. I thought that to play from MC to the AES output would be easy but in Total Mix I never see any output signal on the AES output. Total mix has three layers: hardware inputs, software  and hardware outputs. What I don't understand is how mc will show up in the software layer of total mix?

If I am playing from the TV I see a signal in Totalmix in the spdif input but mc does also not appear in the software layer of Totalmix.

MC won't appear in totalmix, the flow is

totalmix -> MC via its asio line in -> MC DSP -> MC output -> totalmix

so you use MC Asio Line in to "open" those channels and input them into MC then configure the output side as usual via the channel offsets to assign it to the right output channels

does it make sense or this sounds like gibberish to you?

[Manfred]

I got Zone 1: Media Renderer with rme HDSPe AIO Pro->AES->Devialet->B&W 804S [MC internal volume diabled] working . I did a complete reset of Totalmix and begin from start in the early morning in germany.

I will work on Zone 2 this evening: Media Renderer with rme HDSPe AIO Pro->LCD-2 Headphone  [MC internal Volume enabled].

Up to now  - Thank you very much for your help mattkhan!

[Manfred]

totalmix -> MC via its asio line in -> MC DSP -> MC output -> totalmix

- I have configured an output in Total Mix: AES = channel 7 and 8
- Signal is on spdif input in TotalMix (coming via optical from TV)
- I clicked on the output AES and enabled loopback

Now the signal on input spdif is routed back  to inputs AES.

In JRiver "Open LIve ASIO"
Device=  ASIO Hammerfall DSP
Channels are AES = channel 7 and 8 so offset=6.

In Options->Audio> Device setup I have then ASIO Hammerfall DSP.

But it does not work.

[mattkhan]

Picture of totalmix would probably help

You mean you have spdif hardware input playing on some unused software output channel which you loop back into MC right?

[mattkhan]

why do you think AES is channels 7/8? it looks like 3/4 from the pics and the manual

[Manfred]

I have produced the following picture for clarification:

[Manfred]

why do you think AES is channels 7/8? it looks like 3/4 from the pics and the manual

In the matrix view AES are out 7/8.

Picture of totalmix would probably help

[mattkhan]

signal chain is

SDPIF input -> Totalmix input channels x/y -> totalmix output channels a/b -> loopback -> totalmix input channels a/b -> jriver asio line in -> MC -> totalmix output channels m/n

x/y are whatever the spdif input channel pair is
a/b is any unused channels
m/n is your actual physical outputs that feed the headphones

note how this does not match your diagram (you go straight from hardware input to jriver) but does describe how totalmix loopback works

exclusive zoneswitch rules can be used to handle the variation in the physical output channels, this was introduced in 26.0.88 via

8. Changed: All the parameters for live playback are in the URL so you can configure multiple streams pointing to different hardware and save them to a playlist or similar.

so it should work

[Manfred]

One thing I don't understand:

SDPIF input -> Totalmix input channels x/y -> totalmix output channels a/b -> loopback -> totalmix input channels a/b -> jriver asio line in -> MC -> totalmix output channels m/n

Up to the loopback I understand it. But then you have the " totalmix input channels a/b". What have I to do to see a signal there? Currently I see no signal.

[mattkhan]

Loopback signals do not show up in totalmix unfortunately on the input side so you have to look at MC instead

[Manfred]

Ok - so I think I configured it correctly - I enabled loopback in the totalmix output channels. So that is correct. MC says it opens ASIO ... but no sound (DSP Studio Analyzer nothing).

[mattkhan]

At this point, I usually try to get audio into a different app and see if that works. REW usually via its RTA

[Manfred]

I got sound  for the scenario:

TV->optical>Media Renderer with rme HDSPe AIO Pro->AES->Devialet->B&W 804S [MC internal volume disabled]

The sound of Taylor Swift's Reputation Tour  routed from Netflix through MC and then from MC through the AES output of the rme card to my Devialet is so much better then direct optical input (flat sound) to my Devialet direct from TV -  its unbelievable.

Channel Offset=8 in the OpenLive Configuration of MC did it.

Its no stable if you switch zones in MC and then go back - the signal is away - rebooting brings it back. But that is not a solution.

[mattkhan]

Switch zones means what exactly? In terms of MC commands I mean

[Manfred]

I have created two snapshops in TotalMIx

- One playing from MC through AES out or headphone out
- Second playing from optical spdif input through AES out or headphone out

In MC I have created two zones:
- One playing directly from MC
- Second using Open Live in MC

Switching between snapshots in TotalMIX and MC zones leaded to no sound.

I am a little bit limited in evaluation capabilities currently because on Thursday I got a sprained right ankle on my feet.

[mattkhan]

why do you need 2 different configurations in totalmix? can't you just use different channels for each output?

having said that, as far as I recall changing totalmix snapshots doesn't affect the asio driver. Have you tried repeating this without changing snapshots in totalmix to rule that out as the root cause?

[MazingerZ]

If you want to send the TV's optical output to the optical input of the RME, and then to JRiver on Windows,  you can select the RME optical input in  the Windows Sound settings,  under the "Recording" tab,   click on Properties button,  and  under the "Listen" tab,   click on "Listen through this device",  and select   Playback through this device: "JRiver Media Center".

This is the same as selecting any other input (for example the built-in microphone input of the PC).

[Manfred]

why do you need 2 different configurations in totalmix? can't you just use different channels for each output?

having said that, as far as I recall changing totalmix snapshots doesn't affect the ASIO driver. Have you tried repeating this without changing snapshots in totalmix to rule that out as the root cause?

You are right - I did that to for testing different use cases - it was my first contact with TotalMix - but I have learned that you only need one configuration in TotalMix.

I also  need only two zones:
- B&W 804S
- LCD-2 withe Audeze Reveal Plugin on

The rest one could do in TotalMix, you even can simply stop playing a track from MC and power the TV on and the sound from TV is there!

So I got it working!   

Soundwise its the best solution since I have stared my MC journey in Feb. 2013 together with my Devialet and I tried a lot: Devialet AIR, USB with SOtM card + JCAT galvanic isolator and external LPSU, Asus STX II soundcard, HDMI through TV and then optical to Devialet.

Finally I have reached my goal that wanted to achieve in 2013 only to have one sound interface which is now AES. I have no problem to do the DSD to pcm conversation in MC, its more a question of the algorithm of the filter than to do it on an Intel CPU or on an ARM processor of a DAC.

Thank you mattkhan and MazingerZ (I go with ASIO only solution avoiding Windows API's) for helping me.

Only question I currently have is:

In MC Device settings I set the buffersize to 50ms.
In the DSP Settings of the rme card I set the buffer to 128. Is that OK and is there a best practice for the value?

[mattkhan]

great, glad you got it working

Is that OK and is there a best practice for the value?

generally speaking just pick the smallest value that produces stable audio (i.e. no pops and glitches), there's no advantage (that I can think of) to using a bigger buffer than that

[Manfred]

Sorry - but I was to enthusiastic. If I use the TV I can route the signal to AES out but it does not flow through the JRiver audio engine - its directly routed to AES out, even with loopback enabled on the AES out channel.

I have no idea anymore, but I have the feeling that Open Live with ASIO in MC is not working correctly. In the top of MC the message: "Open AIO..." appears but never comes to an end. The offset of 8 seems correct - it fits to what the matrix view of Total Mix is saying.

[mattkhan]

that suggests it is hanging on opening the asio device for the input

might help if you share a log which shows what it is doing when you click open live

I think MC has more problems using multiclient asio devices than other software I've used so it is also worth trying loopback in something like REW to verify whether the problem lies in MC or the hardware/driver.

[Manfred]

I have created a log. The AES output channels (9,10) in TotalMIx have loopback enabled. The spdif signal is routed to the AES outputchannel andone hears sound but the signal is not routed through MC.

[mattkhan]

log seems to say it opened successfully

did you start playback and then stop it manually during this log?

[Manfred]

I stopped manually

[mattkhan]

I would do the following

* change your output device in MC to something other than the RME device (e.g. write to a file), open the asio input, does it start playing as expected or still appear to hang?
* verify loopback in another app (e.g. REW or some other ASIO equipped DAW)

[Manfred]

1. If I use offest=8 in the Open Live Dialog of MC - I see in the audio path: 96kHz 32, Playing full file, Adjust volume by -10db. But I don't see anything happening in DSP Studio Analyzer. I attached the ASIO-Line in as displayed by MC.

2. If I use e.g. offest=12 audio path tells me: Nothing is currently playing.

For 1. does it mean MC receives some input signal and if yes why don't I see it in DSP Studio?

[mattkhan]

1. If I use offest=8 in the Open Live Dialog of MC - I see in the audio path: 96kHz 32, Playing full file, Adjust volume by -10db. But I don't see anything happening in DSP Studio Analyzer. I attached the ASIO-Line in as displayed by MC.

in case it's not clear, you really need to systematically test every combination until you either find one that works or rule out each individual piece of the signal chain. For this particular case, leave MC playing on that input and then route audio to it one channel at a time in totalmix, i.e. verify that your assumption that  offset=8 is correct is indeed correct. as previously mentioned, the way channels are listed in the manual suggests AES is channels 3/4 (using a 1 based index for channel number) at 96kHz so there is some room for doubt around this use of offset=8 which means you have to test it yourself to be sure.

2. If I use e.g. offest=12 audio path tells me: Nothing is currently playing.

as far as I can see, you don't have that many input channels at 96kHz so I'm surprised it doesn't error