Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[jkauff]

Now that I've run Analyze Audio on all my movies, is there anything in DSP Studio that I can use to boost the dialog in a movie audio stream? Or a plugin? I found a VST3 plugin (Voxengo Voxformer) that works well, but it's expensive and has additional DAW functionality that I don't need.

[wer]

Short of a 3rd-party VST plugin, or playing around with equalizer settings (which would require sophistication to do well), no.

Boosting the center channel will usually boost dialog, but also explosions and everything else, so that is not recommended.

However, if you are outputting to a receiver, many receivers and processors have such a function.  Yamaha calls theirs "Dialog Adjust", Marantz calls it "Dialog Enhancer".  Check your documentation. 

[glynor]

Short of a 3rd-party VST plugin, or playing around with equalizer settings (which would require sophistication to do well), no.

Not so fast there, wer.

MC has a built in "Night Mode" that works very well for this. In the DSP Studio > Adaptive Volume > Night Mode. That's exactly what it does (dynamically adjusts volume to reduce loud explosions and music, while lifting quiet parts like dialogue).

This setting, like all of them in the DSP, is saved per-zone, so you can make a separate "Night Zone" that lets you quickly engage that mode (similar to turning that function on in a Receiver). I have one defined on all of the machines where I use MC for video. It works quite well.

[wer]

Well, I disagree that this is what the OP was asking for, Glynor.

Night Mode performs dynamic range compression (poorly, imo, as has been discussed before) across all frequency ranges and channels.  It does NOT selectively boost dialog.

Night Mode makes all quiet portions of the soundtrack louder, not just dialog. In fact, it will even make gunshots louder, if there are even louder explosions elsewhere in the soundtrack.

Selectively boosting dialog requires a different type of processing that Night Mode just does not do.

He might find the effect pleasing, but it's not what he was asking for. 

[jkauff]

I'll give Night Mode a try tonight to hear how well it works.

Meanwhile, can anyone recommend a VST3 plugin that would do the job for less money than the $70 one I mentioned in the first post?

[dtc]

However, if you are outputting to a receiver, many receivers and processors have such a function.  Yamaha calls theirs "Dialog Lift", Marantz calls it "Dialog Enhancer".  Check your documentation.

Dialog Lift does not increase the center output. It adjusts the height of the front and center channel sounds by assigning some of the front and center channel elements to the presence speakers.  It only applies if you have front presence speakers. Since many center speakers are on the floor, the dialog does not seem to come from the TV, but from below it. The idea is that the "lift" moves part of the sound to the presence speakers, which are above the TV, to make the sound appear more like it  comes from the TV itself.

[glynor]

Night Mode makes all quiet portions of the soundtrack louder, not just dialog. In fact, it will even make gunshots louder, if there are even louder explosions elsewhere in the soundtrack.

Selectively boosting dialog requires a different type of processing that Night Mode just does not do.

I know it isn't the fanciest effect in the world, but it works for me in the vast majority of cases. I think it is fancier than you think, though. It does NOT make the "gunshots" or "explosions" louder for me.

It makes the dialog louder relative to the background, which was the explicit purpose when the function was originally added (at my repeated elbow throwing).

Like I said, I don't know (or care) how fancy the effect is, but for simple stuff when I can't hear the dialog unless I turn up my overall volume level high enough that music and explosions would wake up my daughter upstairs, it works for me. The center channel gets much louder, the mains and surround get "normalized".

EDIT: wer, I went back and read the old thread. You didn't like it then either, but it continues to work okay for me for simple purposes.

[wer]

Dialog Lift does not increase the center output. It adjusts the height of the front and center channel sounds by assigning some of the front and center channel elements to the presence speakers.  It only applies if you have front presence speakers.

Sorry, I mistyped in my post as I wasn't in front of the processor.  The Yamaha feature I was referring to is "Dialog Adjust".  It has both features. Dialog Lift behaves as dtc indicates. Dialog Adjust is the one that behaves as I indicated in my earlier post (now corrected.)

[wer]

It does NOT make the "gunshots" or "explosions" louder for me.

It makes the dialog louder relative to the background, which was the explicit purpose when the function was originally added (at my repeated elbow throwing).

This depends on the soundtrack. I tested it quite a bit. It makes everything except the loudest sounds louder. Think a Michael Bay movie: gunshots are far from the loudest sounds in those movies, as there are massive explosions. In soundtracks like that, it can make even gunshots louder.  Night Mode in MC provides an net volume boost to the portions of the soundtrack that are not peaks.

But let's not argue.   If you like it great, if the OP likes it, great.

But he will find that more sophisticated processing, like Dialog Adjust in the Yamaha, does a much better job at what he was actually asking for.

There are VST plugins (not free) that supposedly work, like Vocal Rider. I haven't tried it.

So I would encourage the OP to check the documentation for his receiver or processor for a purpose-built function.

[glynor]

Correct. It is a dynamic range compressor. At the same volume level, it will make everything "louder" (generally) except for the loudest parts of the sound track. However, because the DR is compressed (and center channel boosted) you can turn down the overall volume level and still hear the audio (and the explosions won't blast out your sleeping family members).

Not fancy by any means, but effective if you just want a simple compression effect to keep from getting yelled at by grumpy people you woke up.

Using the one built into a receiver is a decent option too. I like how MC's is more selectively applied depending on Media Type though.

[Scobie]

Dolby Volume also does a similar (possibly the same just trademarked)  thing if your receiver supports it.

[dtc]

Dolby Volume also does a similar (possibly the same just trademarked)  thing if your receiver supports it.

I think Dolby Volume was really aimed at the problem of loud commercials on TV, rather than just low level of dialog in movies. The TV industry has pretty well fixed the loud commercial problem, without the need for Dolby Volume.  I do not think it is a widely implemented option.

[RoderickGI]

I played with the Parametric Equaliser for a while, boosting speech frequencies. It did work a bit, for some media, but not all that well. Dialogue was louder, but the center speaker where the dialogue was mostly coming from sounded mushier. Not as sharp.

I switched back to just playing problem shows in stereo, and that actually improved things considerably.

But I was planning to look for a cheap VST to do it at some time. I'd be interested if someone finds one. Night Mode isn't enough for me.

[wer]

Well, as I said, if you don't have a receiver or processor to do the heavy lifting for you, try out Vocal Rider, Rod. It's half the price of Voxformer.

[davidperetz]

All these software base enhancements are okay but if you really want the best solution is to buy a good gear like a better center speaker.

 i had that problem before with my relative cheap center speaker and when i upgraded to svs ultra center and added power amp it was night and day  . all vocal sounded clear. there are lots of factors that influence the vocals and sound like good receiver , power amp (helps a lot! when you hearing on low volumes) and speakers.

i know your probably looking for easier solution but just giving you something to think about in the future maybe.

[RoderickGI]

That is probably very good advice David.

My center speaker is just a Sony. A good one, but nothing real fancy. My receiver is old and could be an issue. Something to put on the list of things to do.

[flac.rules]

To be honest, although people don't recommend it, i find boosting the center works fine, just boost it 6 dB or something, explosions and similar are technically the whole frequency range, but much of the energy is in the low frequencies, which are output to the subwoofer anyway, so they won't be boosted.

[wer]

Even really good, really expensive speakers don't get it done by themselves on movies with bad mixes.  And there are many movies with very high production values with bad mixes.  Christopher Nolan, jerk that he is, once famously said that it doesn't matter to him that sometimes dialog in his films is unintelligible, because to him it's sometimes just there for flavor, as he wants the audience to feel confusion about what's going on.  Ostensibly because I guess he thinks that draws them further into the world of the film. I just think it's self-indulgent and annoying.  I like many of his movies, but I don't like that aspect of it.  A little off topic, I know, but the point is seeking better dialog clarity is definitely a legitimate endeavor on the part of the OP, and sometimes special tools need to be brought to bear.

[TheShoe]

To be honest, although people don't recommend it, i find boosting the center works fine, just boost it 6 dB or something, explosions and similar are technically the whole frequency range, but much of the energy is in the low frequencies, which are output to the subwoofer anyway, so they won't be boosted.

I use a feature of my Marantz processor which works quite well for me but in reality it is just boosting the level of the center channel only.   Great for movies, terrible for multichannel music however, at least well mixed audio.

Really this is the fault of those who mix audio for movies for home use.   I am going to try watching some movies this weekend with no center channel at all.   Per Jim Smith, author of Get Better Sound, this should sound better.  He was absolutely correct that mounting my center channel vertically is a better match to the front R/L and smoother soundstage.  but ultimately recommends no center at all...

[davidperetz]

wer i love christopher nolan movies too , but when you say it i do realize now that dialog in his movies sometimes hard to understand

Watching a movie without center speaker is seems little odd to me. i think its the most important speaker in the system with the subwoofer

then l/r speakers and then surrounds. raising the center channel 6db is too much for my opinion as everything is boosted (sound effects explosions...) and your left with unbalanced system, there is a purpose to mic measurements.

All im saying is if budget allows doing it physically not software is better. as i said i invested a lot in my HT system and when i added a power amp and changed the center it was night and day difference.   

[TheShoe]

It sounded odd to me to, but then he’s an expert in his field and I’m willing to give it as try . I can tell you mounting my center vertically (they are matched Sonus Faber speakers) made a significant positive difference.  It was a challenge re-working the stand which had to be lowered.

Check out that book - but it can drive you mad...  It’s helped me improve my listening room and speaker placement enough that I feel like I had a nice upgrade in audio quality without more than my on time and patience.   Which is a tenant of the book

[dtc]

It sounded odd to me to, but then he’s an expert in his field and I’m willing to give it as try . I can tell you mounting my center vertically (they are matched Sonus Faber speakers) made a significant positive difference.  It was a challenge re-working the stand which had to be lowered.

Check out that book - but it can drive you mad...  It’s helped me improve my listening room and speaker placement enough that I feel like I had a nice upgrade in audio quality without more than my on time and patience.   Which is a tenant of the book

I tried the no center approach and it did not sound better than having a center I have Sonus Faber Cremona's for L/R, driven by a Mark Levinson 432 amp with 400 watts/channel.  The center is a Thiel SCS3 driven by a ATI 200 watt/channel amp.  The Cremona center was just too big.  In my theater setup, there is room to have the center right below the screen and that is a big improvement over having it on the floor.  The theater has Thiel 1.6s with a SCS4 center, driven by a 200 watt/channel B&K. Again, having the center sounds better than phantom center.

Here are some interesting reading regarding using MTM (D’Appolito array) speakers in horizontal and vertical positions for centers with specific attention to off-axis seating.

https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/center-channel-speaker

https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/vertical-vs-horizontal-speaker-designs

In the end, as always, the correct answer is what sounds best to you in your setup.