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[InflatableMouse]

New installation of Windows 10 Pro on a new 10th gen Intel Nuc i5. Its fully updated and all drivers from Intel installed.

DAC is Teac NT-503 on USB. This model supports both native and DoP up to 4x DSD. I have the driver with ASIO support installed.

Native DSD plays back fine but I cant seem to get the output format configured properly. I tried native 1, 2 and 4x and DoP.

I tried to reduce and increase the Teac ASIO driver sample buffer, the MC playback buffer and the prebuffer. Typically higher values help with stutters and skips/drops but I dont think its a buffering issue, it just sounds weird, psycadelic.

Any ideas what else I can try? I know it should work fine (it has before) its something with this new install.

I am on MC 27.0.35 (beta).

Thanks for the help!

[dtc]

Playing DSD files does not require much CPU time, but converting PCM to DSD requires significant CPU. The symptoms you describe sound like you may be converting PCM to DSD with an underpowered CPU. Converting DSD to another DSD sample rate goes through a PCM conversion, so is also dependent on the CPU. If you are doing real time converting, try converting to a new file and see how that plays.

You can also try using WASAPI, which will send DoP to your DAC.

[DJLegba]

Are you converting FLAC to DSD? If so, I think there is a problem. See this thread: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,127519.msg885508.html#msg885508

[InflatableMouse]

I dont think cpu is the problem, its the latest generation i5 and cpu load is low. I know my old i3 did 1x dsd output so this one should definately be able to do at least 1x. I also tried 2x and 4x on the i3 and then it skips and has dropouts, this just sounds weird and almost unrecognizable.

Regular DSD files play fine but its indeed playing pcm formats that require conversion to dsd.

Last but not least I also dont think the conversion problem with crackles is the same, I dont have crackles, its more like it sounds coming from under water.

[dtc]

Have you tried converting a PCM file to a DSD file and playing that? That would confirm that it is not the converter itself.

The CPU load problem is hard to see with normal tools. Performance monitor may show a low usage, but the problem still happens, which definitely seems like a problem with buffering or with a delay when the CPU kicks in. I wonder if it has something to do with the Nuc design?

Did you try WASAPI. That would help tell whether it might be a problem with the ASIO driver.

Is volume set to 100%? If not, DSD does not work, although it is usually white noise, not what you are describing.


By the way, good to see you posting on here again.

[DJLegba]

When I tested for the other thread, I converted, then played the converted file. It's definitely not a CPU issue.

[dtc]

When I tested for the other thread, I converted, then played the converted file. It's definitely not a CPU issue.

Exactly what problem did you see? On the other thread, the discussion is about hiccups at the start of the file. This seems like a different problem.

[Awesome Donkey]

Yeah, the pop at the beginning at a file when any sort of DSD conversion is done is a known thing, but if it's popping throughout a song (and those pops are present in the converted file) that is indeed something else completely different.

[dtc]

Yeah, the pop at the beginning at a file when any sort of DSD conversion is done is a known thing, but if it's popping throughout a song (and those pops are present in the converted file) that is indeed something else completely different.

The other thread reports that this is a problem with MC 27 conversions but that he did not see it with MC 26. That is, I believe, different than the old click problem in DSD files extracted from iso files.  MC conversion of PCM to flac files have not had a click problem in the past.

[DJLegba]

Both people who have reported problems are using MC 27. It's definitely not the pop at the start or end of a track. If you have a DAC that plays DSD, use MC 27 to convert at FLAC file to DSD and play it. You'll see what they're talking about.

[dtc]

Both people who have reported problems are using MC 27. It's definitely not the pop at the start or end of a track. If you have a DAC that plays DSD, use MC 27 to convert at FLAC file to DSD and play it. You'll see what they're talking about.

Please explain what you hear. The OP in the other thread repeated problems  at the beginning of the thread - " now crackle a bit at the beginning".  Is that what you hear? Or do you hear it throughout the track? It may be related, but it seems different than is what is being reported here.

[DJLegba]

Please explain what you hear. The OP in the other thread repeated problems  at the beginning of the thread - " now crackle a bit at the beginning".  Is that what you hear? Or do you hear it throughout the track? It may be related, but it seems different than is what is being reported here.

I had deleted the converted file, but I converted again, using a faster computer running MC 27. Conversion from FLAC 24/48 to DSD 128, with -6db volume adjustment via Parametric Equalizer. During playback I hear a regular tap-tap-tap that is more prominent when the music is louder. I listened to perhaps 30 seconds, as it's clearly unusable like this. I am aware of the DSD pop that happens from time to time at beginning or end of a track, and this is nothing like it.

Again, if you have a DAC that can play DSD this is an easy thing to verify. Have you tried?

[dtc]

I had deleted the converted file, but I converted again, using a faster computer running MC 27. Conversion from FLAC 24/48 to DSD 128, with -6db volume adjustment via Parametric Equalizer. During playback I hear a regular tap-tap-tap that is more prominent when the music is louder. I listened to perhaps 30 seconds, as it's clearly unusable like this. I am aware of the DSD pop that happens from time to time at beginning or end of a track, and this is nothing like it.

Again, if you have a DAC that can play DSD this is an easy thing to verify. Have you tried?

That really sounds different that what is reported here. Unfortunately, my DSD DAC is in my other house and I will not have access to it for a while. So I cannot test.   Let's see if the Mouse can find out anything more.

Converting 48 KHz to DSD is not an even multiple. Just as a test, it might be interesting to see if the same thing happens with 44.1 KHz.

[DJLegba]

That really sounds different that what is reported here. Unfortunately, my DSD DAC is in my other house and I will not have access to it for a while. So I cannot test.   Let's see if the Mouse can find out anything more.

Converting 48 KHz to DSD is not an even multiple. Just as a test, it might be interesting to see if the same thing happens with 44.1 KHz.

OK, converting a 16/44 file to DSD worked without crackle or pop (or snap).

[dtc]

OK, converting a 16/44 file to DSD worked without crackle or pop (or snap).

Interesting. That does seem to reinforce that there is a problem with the PCM to DSD conversion routine, at least for 48 Khz.  Most people convert from 44.1 or a multiple of that, so it is not surprising that the 48 Khz problem has not been reported before. I think the OP in the other thread was converting from CD files, so he probably used 44.1 KHz, but that would be something good to confirm.

[AndrewFG]

Maybe worth pointing out that even on “lossless” formats, resampling is not always a lossless process..

[InflatableMouse]

I tried converting flac to dsd and it plays fine (mc27), so can we please leave the dsd conversion problem to the other thread? Skipping and pops is not the issue here, nor is it a cpu resource problem.

So back to my issue , I installed MC25 set output to native dsd with device to asio. It plays fine. The same settings in MC27 sounds weird psycedelic or as if "under water".

[dtc]

There was a change to the PCM to DSD converter in MC 26.0.85 (May 2020). Any way you can try versions  before and after that change? That is the only DSD change I know of recently.

Could the problem be related to slow I/O from disk, either in disk or even in anti-virus? Maybe slow I/O coupled with CPU load?  Grasping at straws.

[InflatableMouse]

There was a change to the PCM to DSD converter in MC 26.0.85 (May 2020). Any way you can try versions  before and after that change? That is the only DSD change I know of recently.

Could the problem be related to slow I/O from disk, either in disk or even in anti-virus? Maybe slow I/O coupled with CPU load?  Grasping at straws.

I doubt its disk or slow I/O, its a Samsung 970 NVMe drive and Ive excluded MC and all media file types.

Thanks for pointing out that change though, its good to test for sure.

Also, has anyone considered it might be a thing between the 32-bit and 64-bit? I just realized I installed 32-bit MC25 (working) and 64-bit MC27 (not working).

I won't be able to do any testing today so it will have to wait until later this week.

[JimH]

Also, has anyone considered it might be a thing between the 32-bit and 64-bit? I just realized I installed 32-bit MC25 (working) and 64-bit MC27 (not working).

Yes, it could.  You could try the 32-bit version of MC27.

[Matt]

I think I reproduced this:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,127519.msg885666.html#msg885666

Thanks.

[InflatableMouse]

I think I reproduced this:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,127519.msg885666.html#msg885666

Thanks.

Nope, not for me I just tested that change specifically before and after that version. All versions work fine except the latest beta. 27.0.34 outputs dsd just fine. The beta messes it up so its specifically with the latest beta.

Going to my visitors now before they think Im hiding from them .

[InflatableMouse]

Issue is fixed in the latest beta release, 27.0.36.