Topic: Automatic resampling: JRiver won't play hi-res files (Read 3352 times)

Datapanik · « **on:** November 24, 2020, 01:35:01 am »

I'm not first and guess not the last asking this question: can I listen to hi-res files via JRiver, and if I can, how could I do it?
Problem: While listening to my collection of hi-res music files I found out that JRiver is automatically resampling them from "96kHz 24bit from source format FLAC" to "Output 48 kHz 32 bit 2ch using WASAPI (direct connection)".
I've tried to change settings in JRiver: Tools: DSP Settings, Sample rates, click "No change" in Output... Nothing helps. JRiver constantly and automatically resamples files whatever I do.
Question: How can I listen to hi-res files as they are (24/92 not resampled to 14/44 or even 32/48???)? Where's the problem, in JRiver, in my laptop (it is said that if you connect it to external DAC via USB it bypasses the internal sound card), or is it me missing something or doing something wrong?
Equipment: WD MyCloud Home > Toshiba laptop with WASAPI turned on and connected via USB cable to external CD with DAC > Amp > Speakers.
Tnx!

wer · « **Reply #1 on:** November 24, 2020, 01:58:46 am »

Yes, you can.

However, MC (nor can any other software) cannot playback in a format your hardware and audio driver cannot support.

It's good you're not using DirectSound, as that resamples everything. WASAPI is a good choice.

First, make sure your sound card, audio driver, and output device (your receiver or DAC, for example, if you are connected via HDMI) all support the format you want. You didn't identify any of your audio hardware, so you'll have to figure that out yourself.

If they do, letting MC access the driver in exclusive mode will allow MC to change the settings on your audio hardware to the correct bit depth and sample rate.

Read this to learn about enabling exclusive mode:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Exclusive_Access

Datapanik · « **Reply #2 on:** November 24, 2020, 02:19:40 am »

Thanks for your answer.
My 6-7 years old Toshiba Satellite laptop works with Windows 10, and DAC is part of YBA CD player which can be connected via optical or USB cable (I'm using USB), capable for playing files up to 24/192. I can't change anything in DAC and I can't see what's going on with files, just listen to them.
So, problem could be in laptop? Should I buy a new one, or buy dedicated streamer - Yamaha, Bluesound, Primare, Cambridge Audio...? In that case I wouldn't need JRiver or would I?

wer · « **Reply #3 on:** November 24, 2020, 11:17:22 am »

I see nothing in your post indicating if you tried Exclusive mode as I just suggested, or what the results were.

Datapanik · « **Reply #4 on:** November 25, 2020, 01:06:03 am »

Finally, I reinstalled Asio4All instead of Wasapi. Output signal is now the same as input - hi res. 24/96 in, 24/96 out. First impression, early in the morning, no serious listening: Not that I hear any big difference, but I will no longer live thinking I'm missing something.
Thanks again on advice.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #5 on:** November 25, 2020, 04:56:14 am »

ASIO4ALL is just an ASIO driver for WDM audio devices. It emulates ASIO by providing a wrapper around the existing Windows Audio drivers.

What you needed to do, as Wer said twice, and as the Wiki article said, with pictures, was set WASAPI to Exclusive Mode, and then all would work as you expect. Can you set ASIO4ALL to Exclusive Mode? If not, you won't like it as a solution.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #6 on:** November 25, 2020, 06:25:29 am »

Yep, definitely wouldn't recommend using ASIO4ALL at all, since it's just a wrapper for kernel streaming and not ASIO at all. Kernel streaming was introduced in Windows 98 and has been long depreciated when WASAPI was released in Vista. I'm honestly surprised it's still around.

Datapanik · « **Reply #7 on:** November 25, 2020, 07:44:44 am »

I was wrong. After turning off and then turning JRiver on again, I found that with ASIO4All there is no resamplingod files, JRiver is playing them in their full resolution. BUT, now there is no sound from the speakers. And, yes, Exclusive mode is on. With Wasapi, on the other hand, I can hear the sound, but files are automatically resampled. And, yes, Exclusive mode is on.

So, where's the problem then? In USB connection to external DAC? Maybe it does't understand informations sent from laptop and stays deaf if you feed him wit hi-res files not 16/44? DAC in my YBA CD player (Texas Instruments PC1796) is 24bits/192kHz capable, said manufacturers. Is it something with sound card or other specifications in my Toshiba Satellite C850 1CC laptop with Intel Pentium? I just don't get it?

RoderickGI · « **Reply #8 on:** November 25, 2020, 04:02:43 pm »

When using WASAPI Exclusive Mode, MC will be reading the capabilities of the hardware it sees, and resampling to its capabilities. For example, if you were playing to a Bluetooth speaker, which is only capable of 48 KHz, MC would resample to 48 KHz.

So, it is quite possible that the USB input of your external CD with DAC is telling MC it is only capable of 48 KHz playback. The observation that you get no sound when playing using ASIO4ALL at higher sampling rates, after a restart of MC, would also support that conclusion. I suspect ASIO4ALL would hide the capabilities of the target device, though I've never tested.

What is the external CD? Make and Model?

wer · « **Reply #9 on:** November 25, 2020, 04:29:36 pm »

There are multiple devices involved, and ALL must support the desired format, both in hardware and software. I brought this up before, and Rod is touching on it again in his 2nd paragraph.

I see talk about the DAC and CD player, but I see no confirmation as to the capabilities of the audio driver, as I mentioned several posts back, other than trying to wrap ASIO4ALL around it. Screenshots would be best.

I suggest looking in the audio device properties in Windows control panel to see what formats Windows is saying are currently supported. I would also suggest removing asio4all from the equation until it is determined it is actually necessary.

Datapanik · « **Reply #10 on:** November 26, 2020, 01:17:01 am »

Thanks for your answers!
My external CD/DAC is YBA Design WM 202 with Texas Instruments PC1796 DAC (24bits/192kHz capable, said manufacturers on their site https://www.ybahifi.com/product/yba-design-wm202-cd-player/). I think there's the problem, because I can hear sound from laptop speakers in every possible mode: Asio, Wasapi, Direct....

RoderickGI · « **Reply #11 on:** November 26, 2020, 02:01:58 am »

Sometimes different inputs on devices support different formats.

So maybe the YBA Design WM 202 is capable of 24bits/192kHz on the Optical input, but not on the USB input. That would be a bit unusual, but still possible, and possibly a software issue. Or maybe the TI chip is capable, but the WM202 hasn't implemented the full capability.

Does the WM202 display the format it is receiving on the front panel? If so, you could try playing to the WM202 using another player, and see what format it receives. Make sure to play in WASAPI Exclusive Mode, so Windows doesn't interfere with playback. If you don't have another player, try the free Foobar2000 with the WASAPI plugin. I find it crude, but it is good for simple tests such as this.

Or maybe this is a question for YBA.

Datapanik · « **Reply #12 on:** November 26, 2020, 08:18:46 am »

I got answer, not from YBA, but from internet (https://www.soundstageaccess.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=193:yba-design-wd202-digital-to-analog-converter&catid=56&Itemid=37):
"Using a computer opens a new world of high-resolution files that can be played through many products. I say “many” because some have USB inputs that are limited: even if the DAC is a 24-bit/192kHz device, its USB port may not accept sample rates of 192, 176.4, 96, or even 88.2kHz, or any more than 16 bits.
The WD202 is one of these: via USB, it won’t accept any resolution higher than 16 bits and 48kHz. Feeding it a 24-bit file or a sample rate higher than 48kHz produces only a message of “incompatible hardware” and a refusal to accept the data. The Wavelength Proton USB DAC (see “Comparison”) accepts everything up to 24 bits and sample rates up to 96kHz, using the same software and setup options I used with the WD202.
Does that mean there’s no way to get 88.2kHz or higher, and 20- or 24-bit data, into the WD202? No. The digital coax and optical (TosLink) interfaces use S/PDIF protocol to move data. S/PDIF used to be a slow interface that would accept no more than 16-bit/48kHz stereo, or lossily compressed multichannel Dolby Digital or DTS. Over the years, S/PDIF has stayed alive by, with little fanfare, continually upping the bandwidth. If you have a newish computer that has coax or TosLink connections, you should be able to send hi-rez music files via these. My Toshiba laptop lacks those outputs, however."

RoderickGI · « **Reply #13 on:** November 26, 2020, 02:38:51 pm »

Well, there you go. Although that article is from 2011 and is for the "YBA Design WD202 Digital-to-Analog Converter" rather than the CD Player, if your unit is of the same vintage, the limitation probably applies.

So did you try using the TOSLink or Coaxial connection?

Mcallister · « **Reply #14 on:** December 01, 2020, 08:31:43 am »

I am having the same issue with 2 channel playing back in hi Rez. All of my multichannel files playback in the resolution I have them saved at, be it 24/192, 24/96 so on and so forth. But for the life of me I can’t get my stereo hi Rez tracks to playback at hi Rez, they all playback at 44.1

Maybe I have something set up wrong but I’ve tried all the output options in the Audio section.

I’m running JRiver on my laptop with all the music on a standalone HD, through my network and playing back from the network to an OPPO 203, to a Marrantz 8802a via HDMI between that and the oppo? Any advice?

RoderickGI · « **Reply #15 on:** December 01, 2020, 01:57:27 pm »

Quote from: Mcallister on December 01, 2020, 08:31:43 am

Maybe I have something set up wrong but I’ve tried all the output options in the Audio section.

It sounds like you are looking just in the Audio section of options, but you are playing via DLNA. You need to look at the DLNA settings, and the audio settings within there.

Mcallister · « **Reply #16 on:** December 02, 2020, 06:34:38 am »

Quote from: RoderickGI on December 01, 2020, 01:57:27 pm

It sounds like you are looking just in the Audio section of options, but you are playing via DLNA. You need to look at the DLNA settings, and the audio settings within there.

Thank you! I will try that

Mcallister · « **Reply #17 on:** December 02, 2020, 12:36:31 pm »

Still can’t get it. What should I be setting things at? I had everything at just original source. Very frustrating, especially considering the multichannel files playback correctly.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #18 on:** December 02, 2020, 03:25:53 pm »

It is dependent on what the Oppo 203 says it can play. Search the forum for other posts about using Oppo units with DLNA. There have been many discussions.

Find AndrewFG's Whitebear DMRA and run that to see what the Oppo says it can do.

wer · « **Reply #19 on:** December 03, 2020, 03:33:46 pm »

Mcallister, it would be helpful if you could show us a screenshot of your MC DLNA config.
Options->Media Network->Add or configure DLNA servers.

Make the dialog box that appears big enough, and expand both Advanced sections, and screenshot the whole dialog box.

Then, click on DSP Studio under the top Advanced section, and screenshot the Output Format section from that.

Those screenies should tell us exactly what MC is trying to do when sending to your Oppo.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Automatic resampling: JRiver won't play hi-res files (Read 3352 times)