INTERACT FORUM

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"  (Read 4340 times)

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23

Background:  I'm running MC27 on a laptop that sends via hdmi to an Oppo 203 player which in turn feeds a 5.0 system.  The Oppo is set for a 5.1 but knows there is no SW.

I have the input device set to Oppo WASAPI HD audio driver.  The Oppo is set to do everything in PCM.  Bitstream is off.

The problem:

In DSP studio if I choose channels = 5.1 then FLAC and DSD multichannel files play correctly but FLAC stereo files plays silence. 
If I set channels to stereo everything plays in stereo.

If I choose "source number of channels"  then FLAC multichannel and stereo files play correctly, but DSD multichannel files generate the error offering to switch to 2ch.
 
So, is there a setting or configuration that will correctly FLAC and DSD, in stereo and 5.1, without my intervention?

Screenshots follow.

Thanks much in advance,

Alan
Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23

input settings:
Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23

output format:
Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23

Audio path:
Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23

Source number of channels DSD error message:
Logged

The Big Labinski

  • Regular Member
  • Galactic Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 442
  • Wake up and slow down

Dear awatkins, did you try not to use DSP Studio?
I send all my files to my Denon Receiver in Raw format over HDMI with WASAPI. Denon is doing the decoding.
Maybe it will help - good luck.
Logged
Wake up and slow down 😴

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23

David Sydney wrote:

Firstly turn everything off in DSP untick it all - is stereo coming through then - if not it's somthing with the DAC.

If it does play stereo with no DSP items enabled, Next I would try only output format: "Source number of channels" only.
Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23

DTC wrote:
It looks like you are converting DSD to PCM, which is done at 1/8 of the original sample rate. For 1x DSD that would be 352 KHz. You convert 352 KHz to 192 KHz. Looks like you cannot play 6 channel PCM at 192 Khz. Try converting 352 to some lower sample rate. A multiple of 44 Khz rather than 48 Khz would probably be better. So try 44 or 88 Khz and see if either works. If not, try 48 or 96 Khz.

If you want to keep 2 channel DSD converted to PCM at the higher sample rate than 6 channel, you can set up different zones for 2 channel DSD and 6 channel with different downsampling.
Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23

DTC --
I can play 6-ch at 192k just fine, unless they started out as DSD.
Logged

dtc

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3118

Does Audio Path say anything else other than the error message?

Did you try conversion to another sample rate, just to test?

Are you using HDMI output or DLNA? I don't think the 203 supports usb input.
Logged

LilyAarseth

  • World Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2021, 03:13:29 pm »

Could it be as simple as the Oppo player doesn't support 5CH/5.0? As the 5.0 format itself is sort of rarely used outside DSD from my experience, maybe the player simply didn't add support for it? In which case maybe it'd be possible to add a few lines of code to jriver to enable padding of a silent subwoofer channel for these types of situations unless there's a better idea?

Edit: From the specs of the player it seems the player supports DSD bitstream, what's your reason to want to convert to PCM before sending to the player?
Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2021, 05:25:08 pm »

DTC —
I don’t understand your first question because I’ve never seen an error message in Audio Path; I posted a printscreen of Audiopath above.

I tried 44.1 in place of 192 and it made no difference.

I’m using HDMI.

LilyAarseth —
The hardware is 5.0 i.e my 5 full range speakers don’t need a SW.  The Oppo’s audio setup understands perfectly well that some people don’t have SWs, just like any other player or AVR. FLAC files are 2.0, 4.0, 5.1, and DSD files are 2.0 and 5.1. 

MC says bitstream is “not recommended” and in its default mode puts out DOP which the player does not support.  When I’ve tried bitstreaming in native DSD it hasn’t worked, and I have enough problems as it is so I’d rather focus on getting MC to put out PCM like it’s supposed to when presented with a DSD file, and like it does if I tell it the channel layout.

The player displays the format it’s receiving and it’s never differed from what MC says, so when it plays silence I’m inclined to believe it is receiving silence from MC.
Logged

wer

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 2640
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2021, 05:49:32 pm »

So, is there a setting or configuration that will correctly FLAC and DSD, in stereo and 5.1, without my intervention?

Yes.

awatkins,

This sounds like an issue with the Oppo. You could confirm this by plugging your HDMI cable directly from the PC into your receiver instead of the Oppo. If the problem goes away, and everything plays correctly when # channels is set to 5.1 in output format, you have your answer.

Since you say all files play correctly when you have the DSP Studio Output Format set to the number of channels the Oppo seems to require for that file (i.e. multichannel requires #channels=5.1, stereo requires #channels=2) then there is an easy resolution to this.

1. Create two zones in MC, that are identical to each other except for the # of channels setting in Output Format.
2. Use ZoneSwitch to use rules to automatically route tracks to the correct zones.

Your ZoneSwitch rules can be as simple as using the [Channels] field.

Once this is setup, which takes about 5 minutes, then your files will automatically play in the zone with the correct settings, which means they will work, without further intervention.

(Out of curiosity, exactly how is your Oppo connected to your receiver?)


So I suggest you test directly to your receiver as I described above and report back the results, and then setup zones and ZoneSwitch so you can continue to send your sound through the Oppo.
Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2021, 05:53:47 pm »

There is no receiver.  The player sends analog to the crossovers.

I know about zones and I have made that work but it’s a maintenance hassle given I also use DSP studio for other things (currently turned off).  I’d much rather have MC do what it’s supposed to with plain old PCM.
Logged

dtc

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3118
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2021, 05:54:21 pm »

My bad. I was thinking that Audio Path gave you information in addition to the error message, but it does not. I was trying to see exactly what conversions were being made. 

Since 44 KHz gives the same error message, the problem seems like it is not with the sample rate.  The error message says 5 channel and I do not know where that comes from.   Since you say it plays 5.1 flac ok, then the problem may be part of the DSD conversion.  You might try converting the 5.1 DSD to a PCM file and see what type of file it creates and whether that plays or not.
Logged

wer

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 2640
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2021, 07:27:24 pm »

There is no receiver.  The player sends analog to the crossovers.

I know about zones and I have made that work but it’s a maintenance hassle given I also use DSP studio for other things (currently turned off).  I’d much rather have MC do what it’s supposed to with plain old PCM.

Ok, so you know the solution, you just don't want to use it.  People have been spending a lot of time trying to help you, so it would have been nice if you had shared info on what you'd tried and that zones work but you don't want to use them.

So how about if you try some other software that can use WASAPI, and see if you get the same or different results.  That would give us something to go on, as to whether your video card is capable of doing what you want with the Oppo.

One other thing I notice is that your error message indicates it's trying to output at a depth of 64bits. Since when does HDMI support 64bit audio?  What do you have your bit depth set to in Audio device options?
Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2021, 09:40:17 pm »

WER --

Multiple zones is "the solution?"  Then why does the product bother offering "source number of channels"?  Excuse me for trying to get a commercial software package to operate according to its own specs.  Furthermore, the fact that changing zones works supplies no new information about the root problem, which is that "source number of channels" doesn't work and plays silence when it feels like it.

I found a Denon 4308 receiver and placed it between the pc and the crossover.  Same or worse behavior, so it's not the Oppo.  BTW The Oppo and Denon both play the output from multichannel SACDs just fine.

My device bit depth is set to auto and there is no 64-bit option, so  I don't know why it says 64 bits.  Do you?

DTC--  Audio path does state conversions if there are any.

Also, BTW, note the bug fix from a week ago "NEW: DTS parsing gets the proper number of channels."  As of today I'm running that build, but it does not seemed to have helped.

Interesting comment from Kal Rubinson in another thread "I never use "Source number of channels" since the results are unpredictable. "
Logged

wer

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 2640
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2021, 11:23:04 pm »

Everyone who has posted to this thread is trying to help you, out of nothing but altruism. We're not JRiver employees, and we're not responsible for your problem. You might want to keep that in mind.

Using multiple zones is often a solution for getting around finicky hardware issues. And video files often require different output settings than audio files do.  Evidently you are not experienced with those sorts of issues. That's ok, but you'd be well advised to keep a more open mind. Getting computers to work with some formats can be tricky, and solving problems requires flexibility, since there's no "Make it work" button.  I understand that you assert MC is to blame for this.  But the reality is that MC doesn't decide what audio formats are supported.

Your video card (the HDMI source) handshakes with the Oppo (the HDMI sink) and they negotiate what audio formats are acceptable.  Then, the video card tells MC what audio formats are allowed. Period. MC has no input in that process.  You're getting the error message you got because MC tried to output in a particular format, and the video card rejected it. Considering your comment about the Denon receiver, I think that something that may be eluding you is the fact that every device in the HDMI chain must support a format or feature for it to function. You keep talking about the Oppo as if that's all that mattered, but that's only half the story. The other half is your video card and driver, which you've never mentioned.

The fact that the behavior persisted with another sink means that the issue could be with the video card or driver.

Since you don't understand why the product offers "source number of channels", I'll explain:  It's to do one of two things: to allow you to intentionally reformat the audio stream (as in upmixing), or to work around the quirks of different output devices.  For example, I have seen many output devices that do not support 3-channel audio. It is a perfectly valid format, officially recognized by HDMI, but some devices don't support it.  Some devices don't support 5-channel audio (as in 5.0, not 5.1). 

So a lot of people are able to leave it at "source number of channels".  But it's very common to have a device that doesn't work properly with one of the unusual formats, so what all those people do is select 5.1 or 7.1 (no upmixing/downmixing) and then MC sends the extra channels as silence.  That works for almost everyone. If I play a 5-channel DSD file on my system over HDMI, the video card rejects the format, and I get the same error message as you. I set the # of output channels to 5.1, and the 5-channel DSD file plays fine as 5 channel. So it works for me too. 

But not you.

So here we are.  I hope that explains it for you.

Regarding 64bits, the reason I brought that up is that HDMI doesn't support 64-bit audio.  So I don't see how you're ever going to be able to output at that bit depth across HDMI.  MC can process internally at 64bits, but you can't output at that depth, it has to be downconverted. Perhaps MC got the error before it got that far. If I were sitting at your computer, I would know the answer, but we have to depend on you to provide helpful information.  If you look at the Bit Depth field for that file, I imagine it will say 1 for the file that gave that error.

Try the other choices in Audio device settings for bit depth. 24bit integer in a 32bit package is a likely suspect, but try them all on that file that threw the error message, and see if any of them work. It depends on what your video card driver wants.  If none of them fix the problem, it is probably the channel count that the video card objects to.

What does "same or worse" mean regarding the Denon test?  With Output Format=5.1 channels, all your stereo files still play as silence?

And as I said before, I suggest you try another player app that can use WASAPI, like foobar, to verify that the problem isn't in your video card driver software.  See if you can make it play a 5-channel file without converting to 6 channels (5.1). If you can't then you know it's your video card that won't let "source number of channels" work.

Regarding Kal's comment, Kal is an experienced user who tests lots of different equipment, so he has encountered equipment that doesn't support various formats. That comment is exactly what I would expect someone like that to say, because you can never be sure what formats will work with a piece of equipment until you try it.  Your implication is you think his comment means the "source number of channels" option in MC is broken. But it does exactly what it's supposed to do.

Another thing to look at: the Analyzer in DSP Studio. You say that if you select output channels =5.1, then your 2-channel files play only silence.  Ok.  So let's take a look at the Analyzer module of DSP Studio, while one of your 2-channel tracks is playing with output channels =5.1.  Show us the whole DSP Studio window so that we can see what modules are checked.  Looking at the analyzer module, it will show you traces, and numeric volume levels across the top.  What do those show when you're playing your stereo track that you hear as silence?

Logged

whoareyou

  • Galactic Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2021, 02:16:53 pm »

Out of curiosity, I just tried similar configuration with my oppo 205.  Supported formats are a little different between 203 & 205, but idea similar.

Computer hdmi ---> oppo Input
Oppo set to hdmi in (for input)
Output to Marantz sr7010

For me,  everything works as expected at 192. 
I used 5.1 output / no upmix or downmix. 
Stereo, and all multichannel DSD and/or Flac work as expected.

Only other suggestions / questions I have are ....
Check the configuration of the oppo driver on the computer.  Make sure it is configured to multichannel and sample rate as expected.   

And...

There are several versions of that starter pack, some with higher sample rates.  So which one did you download?  I see you have identical tracks in your screen grab, so you must have stereo and multichannel versions of each track.    Are they the 64, 128 256 or 512 sample rate version ?
If it is one of the higher sample rates, maybe download the lowest sample rate and try with that, and rule out that something funky is not going on with the higher rate file?

Or, if you have any other multichannel DSD files that you can test with (besides NativeDSD starter pack)?


https://www.nativedsd.com/catalogue/albums/ndsd017-nativedsd-music-free-starter-pack/

Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2021, 06:02:43 pm »

Taking the questions in order

Regarding the 64-bit question:   I tried the other settings at one point and none played any sound in any format, so I went back to auto.

Sound "card": Realtek audio, Intel video embedded in a few-month-old Dell XPS13 notebook used for nothing but audio playback.

Foobar2000:  Good suggestion:  all formats play properly without intervention by me

Analyzer:  with channels set to 5.1 and playing a stereo file analyzer shows all six lines bouncing around as expected, but no sound out of MC.

In which configuration do you want to see a screen shot of DSP studio?

My config is different from Who..'s:  Computer to AVR; Oppo is no longer in use per earlier suggestion.

Regarding the Oppo 203 "driver" in Device Manager it's just an HD Audio Driver like the AVR so there aren't any formats or sample rates to set.  In sound settings it's 5.1 of course and set to 24bit/192, as was the Oppo when it was connected.

NativeDSD sample is 64 but I have lots of 256.  They all play fine when channels = 5.1.
Logged

wer

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 2640
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2021, 07:52:02 pm »

Taking the questions in order
Well actually you ignored some... But I'll just move on.

Regarding the 64-bit question:   I tried the other settings at one point and none played any sound in any format, so I went back to auto.
Really? If none of them functioned at all, MC couldn't play sound.  When MC does produce sound, what does Audio Path show as the output at the bottom? Because that one works.

Foobar2000:  Good suggestion:  all formats play properly without intervention by me
With foobar configured how exactly, and what format exactly is foobar outputting?  Does the Oppo info screen report it is receiving 5.0 or 5.1 channels? You're not providing essential detail, and unless foobar is configured to output exactly the same way as MC, the test doesn't provide a usable result.

Analyzer:  with channels set to 5.1 and playing a stereo file analyzer shows all six lines bouncing around as expected, but no sound out of MC.
Six bouncing lines? Because if you both expect to and then do actually see 6 lines bouncing around when playing a stereo file, something's quite wrong.  Show this.

So that I don't have to type it again, please just re-read the last paragraph in my previous post, and provide the screenshot asked for while the 2-channel file is playing.

Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2021, 09:38:20 pm »

I didn't ignore anything.  What question(s) did I miss?
Logged

dtc

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3118
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2021, 09:15:36 am »

From what I can tell, the NativeDSD Sampler is in 5.0 DSD.  It plays, converted to PCM, when forced to a 5.1 package, but does not seem to play in a 5.0 when using Source Number of Channels. So, the problem could be that 5.0 is not supported by the video driver and MC does not suggest changing it to 5.1, which would play. Rather it suggests 2 channel. It really should suggest 5.1 as an alternative.  The 64 bit format may also be a problem, but given that MC suggests 2 channel works, then my guess is that 64 bit is not the problem.

I also wonder why 2 channel stereo does not play when output is set to 5.1.  It seems like it should play as 5.1, with the surround, center and LFE channels silent, rather than have all channels silent.  That might be a better approach. What do you get if you select 5.1 and use JRSS mixing versus no upmixing or downmixing?

The Wiki has a detailed description of how to do various mixing options.

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Mixing


Logged

bob

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2021, 09:29:00 am »

There are chipsets that will not produce odd numbers of channels, I'm not certain, but I think I ran into this with regards to the HDMI output on the RPI4.
Logged

dtc

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3118
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2021, 01:55:12 pm »

Bob - Doesn't it make sense to recommend a 5.1 output rather than a 2 channel output given that the 5.0 does not seem to work?
Logged

bob

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2021, 03:08:44 pm »

Bob - Doesn't it make sense to recommend a 5.1 output rather than a 2 channel output given that the 5.0 does not seem to work?
Yes.
Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2021, 05:50:35 pm »

DTC --
Yes, when in Source Number of Channels, and I play DSD multichannel and MC suggests 64bit but dropping to 2ch, doing so does play in 2ch

Investigating the silence when not in Source Number of Channels I stepped through from bottom up the number of channels playing a stereo FLAC file. 

1.0 error message
2.0 plays
2.1 silent
3.1 error message suggest 44k 16bit 2 ch
4.0 silent
5.1 silent
7.1 silent
10 error same suggestion; here I stopped.

Bob -- I don't see a correlation with odd vs even #channels.

Any other questions/suggestions?

Logged

bob

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2021, 12:36:21 pm »

So I just tried this with an Acer windows 7 laptop and the latest MC27, an Oppo BDP-103 and a Sony AMP. Connect the laptop to the front port on the Oppo. The Oppo is connected HDMI to the AMP. Played a multichannel test wav file at 48k and SACD iso, the 5 channel tracks (resampled to 176k in DSP studio with source number of channels).

It worked perfectly.

Screen shots attached.

Perhaps your windows machine can't produce multichannel HDMI out it's chipset.

Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2021, 10:29:31 pm »

Thanks, bob. 

Not that it necessarily matters, but the hardware configuration you used is different from mine.  Mine is either the PC to the Oppo to analog, or the PC to a Denon AVR to analog.  IOW only ever two digital devices connected by HDMI.  The PC is a new Dell notebook.

In DSP studio if I choose channels = 5.1 then FLAC and DSD multichannel files play correctly but FLAC stereo files plays silence.
If I set channels to stereo all files play in stereo.

If I choose "source number of channels"  then FLAC multichannel and stereo files play correctly, but DSD multichannel files generate the error offering to switch to 2ch.

The behavior above is the same with the player or with the AVR.  I have not run them in series as you did.

The player case plays all sources with default settings in Foobar.  The AVR plays all sources with default settings in Foobar and in Roon.


IOW the PC does play:
  • multichannel HDMI flac in MC if channels = 5.1
  • multichannel HDMI flac in MC if channels = SNofCh
  • multichannel HDMI DSD in MC if channels = 5.1,
  • in Foobar,
  • in Roon with an AVR. 

It does not play DSD HDMI in MC in SNofCh (error msg), and it does not play Flac Stereo in MC in 5.1 (silence)
Logged

bob

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 13870
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2021, 10:24:27 am »

I hadn't tried analog on the Oppo.
The difference would be that the internal DAC would be used I suppose as opposed to passing through to the amp.
There are a bunch of settings that I don't general touch in the Oppo so I really don't know about that.

There is a bitstream HDMI option in Audio settings that I didn't touch in my test.
Do you have bitstreaming enabled there?
Logged

dtc

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3118
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2021, 10:50:45 am »

There are changes coming to Source Number of Channels which may help. Look for the next update.
Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2021, 04:04:17 pm »

Bob --
No I deliberately avoided anything having to do with bitstreaming including that setting as wells as telling the AVR and Player to expect PCM.
Logged

whoareyou

  • Galactic Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2021, 04:57:11 pm »

I just tested with my Oppo's analogue outputs:

computer  -> oppo 205 hdmi input
Oppo analogue output to preamp  (for 5.0 Turned sub off in Oppo analogue configuration)
JRiver DSP set to 5.1 channels
Converted DSD to 192khz
Everything else left as is
No bitstreaming
I tried various sample rates and channel configurations (2,3,4, 5.0 5.1)

Everything works as expected for me.

Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2021, 05:56:30 pm »

whoareyou--

So with 5.1 in DSP Studio, 2.0 PCM (FLAC) plays properly?

Also, when you say "Converted DSD to 192khz" which setting in MC are you referring to?
Logged

whoareyou

  • Galactic Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2021, 05:17:36 pm »

Yes.  Everything plays as expected with channels configured to 5.1.

JRiver's standard conversion from SACD to 352,  and then DSP Studio / Output format converting to 192khz for in output format's sample rate. 

I pretty much do the same exact thing in my normal setup, except I use a multichannel DAC over USB.  But for me it really ends up swapping one set of analog outputs for another (Oppo analog or DAC analog).

Of Course  HDMI and USB are different, but point is my settings for the DAC'S configuration are same idea in DSP Studio. 

Wish I could find something that would replicate the behavior to help you out, but unfortunately for me, 5.1 channels plays everything exactly as expected.

When I had hooked up to OPPO over HDMI, I actually tried to break things by mucking around with the driver's settings.

One thing I noted is that when I selected the wrong driver for the Oppo.  It did come up with that weird error message mentioning 64bit playback failing and needed a different format.  That error message displayed as I tried to send multichannel output with my Oppo's USB driver accidentally selected in playback options(205 has that USB DAC /203 does not) . 
I know it's grasping at straws, but any chance there is another driver that you have not tried under the "More" selection?

Not sure what else I can try.  Unfortunately, it just seems to work for me. 






Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2021, 06:54:50 pm »

Forgot to ask this question:  are you using WASAPI or DirectSound?  I ask because DirectSound does not exhibit the silent-stereo problem in 5.1.

Also, can you tell me how the 205 is set in Setup > Audio Processing > Speaker Configuration?  I ask only in the hope that you happen to have a configuration there that somehow makes this work while I don't.  I think the basic questions are: which speakers have size not "off", and what down mix setting (LT/RT, Stereo, 5.1, 7.1).  I can't imagine anything else (size, distance, volume trim) would have the desired effect.

FWIW my answers are: FL, C, FR, SR, SL are all "large" while SW is off, and Down Mix Mode is 5.1 ch.
Logged

kr4

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2021, 08:19:05 pm »

FWIW my answers are: FL, C, FR, SR, SL are all "large" while SW is off, and Down Mix Mode is 5.1 ch.
And that works?  Connected to what?
Logged
Kal Rubinson
"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

whoareyou

  • Galactic Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2021, 09:58:48 pm »

It was the WASAPI driver. 
Oppo -  subwoofer set to off to match your 5.0 configuration. Downmix is set to 5.1
I didn't pay attention to the speaker settings i.e. large vs small.  I can not imagine it made any sense to configure them as small, since without a subwoofer where would the bass go.
(if when present, Oppo downmixes the .1 channel? 

Have you tried playing the oppo's test signal to each channel ? 

Also, didn't you say you had same issue with JRiver / Denon receiver, but that same configurations work using Roon and Foobar to that Denon as well as the Oppo?


And that works?  Connected to what?
@kr4 - You mean turning off the subwoofer? For me it works, but I suppose how well it works depends on what the oppo does with the subwoofer channel when off. Is it downmixed to the other channels similar to other downmix settings? No idea, and did not try any listening to see if I heard what I though was some bass distributed to the other speakers with a 5.1 source. 
But it can be turned off, and playback works.




Logged

kr4

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2021, 10:03:58 am »

@kr4 - You mean turning off the subwoofer? For me it works, but I suppose how well it works depends on what the oppo does with the subwoofer channel when off. Is it downmixed to the other channels similar to other downmix settings? No idea, and did not try any listening to see if I heard what I though was some bass distributed to the other speakers with a 5.1 source. 
But it can be turned off, and playback works.
Not just that but the entire channel order, i.e., the placement of the C between FL/FR and the strange disparity in the side order of the front and rear channels (FL,FR vs. SR,SL).
Logged
Kal Rubinson
"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2021, 12:03:17 pm »

kr4 —
connected to five full-range speakers.

Also, I did not list the channels is any particular order; that’s not relevant to communicating which ones are turned on.

And as whoareyou suggested, I don’t know what the oppo is doing with the LFE information; at this point I have far worse problems to solve.

Whoareyou— Yes, same symptoms with Denon receiver, but no problems with either in Foobar.  Roon doesn’t like Oppo DSD multichannel, but they have asked for logs which I sent yesterday.

Have played pink noise per channel on both denon AVR and oppo; both work correctly.
Logged

kr4

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2021, 01:10:23 pm »

kr4 —
connected to five full-range speakers.
Same here but with sub(s)!

Quote
Also, I did not list the channels is any particular order; that’s not relevant to communicating which ones are turned on.
OK but the actual order is significant.

Logged
Kal Rubinson
"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2021, 09:58:23 pm »

I had a breakthrough (or maybe a breakdown).  I found this nice collection of multichannel test files via:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/multichannel-test-files-flac-with-various-channels-sample-rates.24032/

I set channels = 5.1 and  played each one in turn.  I noticed it was only the 44.1 and 88.2 files that played silence.  And of course the 44.1 case tricked me into think it was a stereo issue, since  essentially all my stereo files are CD rips and thus 44.1/2.0.

So the new problem definition is:

With channels = 5.1 and files with sample rate 44.1k or 88.2k plays silence.

With channels = Src#Ch, any 5.0 file generates the error message suggesting 6 channels, and any multichannel file at 44.1 or 88.2 plays silence.

BUT.... if I tell DSP Studio to convert all files to (say) 192K, and set channels = 5.1, all files play correctly.

And by the way, this is all on yet another AVR (actually an AVP: Onkyo PR-SC5508).

Logged

dtc

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3118
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2021, 09:17:29 am »

Glad you found a solution.

Video is typically sent at 48 Khz, so HDMI cards usually support that and multiples of that. Many HDMI graphics cards, including Intel and NVIDIA, do not support 88.2 and 176.4 audio. AMD used to support those sample rates, but I am not sure if the current ones do.  Most HDMI cards  do support 44.1, although it seems likes yours does not like that for 5.1 audio. That is not too surprising since graphics card developers are not thinking about audio. I would have thought, however,  that an EDID error would have occurred rather than silence. Graphics card developers could also support DSD on their HDMI cards, but, again, since it is audio not video, they do not do it.

Good luck.

EDIT: It looks like some more recent NVIDIA cards do support 88.2 and 176.4 audio.
Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2021, 09:33:38 pm »

Douibt it's a "video card" prolbem because, as before, none of this stuff happens under Foobar.
Logged

dtc

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3118
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2021, 08:22:30 am »

What is your HDMI hardware and drivers? And your PC?
Logged

whoareyou

  • Galactic Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2021, 08:36:12 am »

Also, check to see the supported formats in the device properties?
 
Logged

awatkins

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2021, 09:56:13 pm »

dtc-- New Dell XPS-13, Intel Iris XE graphics, HD Audio driver from Microsoft.

WhoAreYou -- when you were testing on the 205, did you try 44.1k multichannel?
Logged

dtc

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3118
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2021, 08:05:45 am »

And what does Control Panel show as the supported sample rates?
Logged

whoareyou

  • Galactic Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2021, 09:05:11 am »

dtc-- New Dell XPS-13, Intel Iris XE graphics, HD Audio driver from Microsoft.

WhoAreYou -- when you were testing on the 205, did you try 44.1k multichannel?

Over HDMI I did not test.
Just tested.  All works fine over HDMI. 

I know I have one or two albums with 44.1/24bit multi that play no issue to USB DAC. If I get a chance I'll try HDMI out later on but I'd be surprised if it did not work. 
But how many files like that do you have that you are concerned about that configuration? It's pretty unusual and I have not seen for sale in years.  Those are from days of slow internet speeds.

I have a pretty decent multichannel collection, and I only have one or two classical albums like that from maybe 10 years ago?







Logged

whoareyou

  • Galactic Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
Re: No stereo sound in 5.1; No DSD multichannel in "source number of channels"
« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2021, 09:07:30 pm »

I really wish I could duplicate this but I'm out of ideas.  It just works for me, and that's with straightforward configuration options.

Only other suggestion, and it's long shot, is create a new zone from scratch and set the bare minimum configuration.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.


Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up