Topic: RME UC, JRiver MC 28, and REW trying to loopback (Read 1860 times)

charbug · « **on:** July 25, 2021, 01:45:39 pm »

I have spent days trying to figure this out. Now I am reaching out for help. First a little history. Fresh new computer build with windows 10. I have a RME UC using totalmix. I will be upgrading to the new UCX II when it is available. The overall system is for home use. Main speakers are 2 way Klipsch Jubilees, and I have a SUB. So I have 5 outputs from JRiver going to totalmix and from there we go to 3 amps which drive the horns, midranges, and sub. I am using audiolense to develop crossovers and to Digital room correct. So I am using the convolution engine in JRiver. I will be getting Mitch Barnette to do final corrections when I get used to hardware and understand everything. I have gotten JRiver to work and system sounded good with the convolution engine running an Audiolense file a friend helped me setup, but I wanted to run REW to see what things looked like. I am struggling to get REW to work with the JRiver Line in so I can look at what the DSP has performed.
I will try and put what info is needed so maybe someone can help me figure out what is going on and get REW working using totalmix loopback and JRiver Live in.
I am sending a signal from REW using ADAT 3/4 which is ASIO channels 13 and 14. I have set Offset at 12 and tried many different Offsets to see what happens.
Attached is the Pic of REW preferences. as you can see I have the Mic working and I have an output signal going to ADAT 3 using the REW speaker cal noise generator.
Also you can see on Totalmix it is seeing the signal from REW on ADAT 3/4 and I have set loopback to go back to ADAT 3/4 input which I am can not get JRiver to see on live in. I have also included some snipits from JRiver on what I have setup.
As you can see JRiver is trying to play Live in but nothing. Also JRiver has crashed so many times my View has changed and I no longer have my normal view with the JRiver Emblem up top and I can not get it back. Any ideas there?? I just have this plain jane view now and cant get the normal look back.
I am open to suggestions on how to get REW to play back through JRiver and totalmix.

charbug · « **Reply #1 on:** July 25, 2021, 01:52:43 pm »

More pics that may help.

mattkhan · « **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2021, 02:26:56 pm »

RME drivers have historically been problematic when used in this way with jriver despite being multiclient capable. It seems jriver does something not quite right when handing asio devices. So one thing to bear in mind is that you can always use the external sweep method (some detail in https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Verifying_DSP_Studio#Generate_a_Measurement_Sweep) to avoid dealing with line in problems. It is slightly less convenient to work with but does take line in out of the equation.

charbug · « **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2021, 02:42:11 pm »

Thanks for the heads up. I have tried everything. Now this has me a little worried because I do have a CD Player and a turntable to connect to the RME device and play using JRiver and I can not afford to have issues there. Is there another piece of hardware that has better drivers and would work better? I got the RME UC with the intentions of upgrading to the UCX II and the guys at sweetwater audio are working with me to upgrade me when they get it but Patrick would upgrade me to another brand if it would work better and is a quality sounding unit. That sort of sucks because I went with RME because their drivers are supposed to be the best.

mattkhan · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2021, 03:39:37 pm »

I don't think it is better drivers as such, just compatibility with jriver. The MOTU AVB series work ok with jriver so that is one option, I suppose am ultra lite AVB is a similar spec in I/o terms

mattkhan · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2021, 03:54:46 pm »

going back to your current problem though, nothing obviously wrong with the settings but perhaps makes sense to do a sanity check, i.e. verify your totalmix setup by measuring just the RME alone via rew.

charbug · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2021, 04:00:15 pm »

I have been at this for days and done many sanity checks. go figure...

charbug · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2021, 04:57:15 pm »

I just tried to get my CD Player to play through the RME and I followed this:
file:///C:/Users/Robert/Downloads/JRiver%20open%20live.pdf

I Hooked the CD Player to SPDF and could see it playing fine. Routed it to software ADAT 3/4 and got an output on the output section of ADAT 3/4 and then I did loopback for that channel and tried Live in for that ADAT and JRiver crashes. IS there an Expert out there I can pay to help on JRiver and RME?

charbug · « **Reply #8 on:** July 25, 2021, 07:50:38 pm »

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=119054.0
I tried going the Wasapi route and got JRiver to live in to see my CD player but looking at the outputs on totalmix going to my 5 channels it was horrible. Some channels were clipping and others were seeing minimal signal. That is screwed up. So after reading many threads it appears RME products and drivers just don't play well with JRiver. So who makes a high quality audio device that has the driver situation figured out so I can have a problem free audio system. This is very frustrating

arrowc · « **Reply #9 on:** July 25, 2021, 11:51:36 pm »

this is probably something you already know? On your first post the output is lower than input. The input is controlled by the volume input control in the rme device settings. I have the rme fireface 400 with mic input with volume control.

pschelbert · « **Reply #10 on:** July 26, 2021, 03:46:02 am »

Hi

I have RME UFX and UFX II.

Both work with WASAPI Live in and ASIO Live in.

Loopback: The offset-mapping is somehow weared. You have to try the number of offset.
I also noted a change in Loopback, either driver of firmware. I recommend to get the lastest fw and driver.
My RME's work flawlessly with JRiver since long time (years)
I use MC27.0.85 still .

There must be something in the config which is wrong (Totalmix and or JRiver).

Tip to troubleshoot: use RME digicheck software (for free see RME website). This allows to monitor almost everything (in, out etc.).

I can say RME is very reliable in driver and operation including top sound quality.
I owned Motu before and could not tell the same.

Peter

Manfred · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2021, 12:14:08 pm »

There is similar thread:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,129695.0.html

It would be nice if someone from the MC Team could give a statement why MC has problems with multi client drivers and what would be the effort to change that (feature request).

For me it is a standard use case to have digital input and digital/analog output using the same driver. rme has many of this devices like HDSPe AIO Pro which contains also a DAC.

charbug · « **Reply #12 on:** July 26, 2021, 10:35:44 pm »

I have to ask. Would an older version of MC work better for me? Also does anyone know if any of the other products drivers work better, Like Lynx? I do like the Hilo but the reason I went with RME is because it had the outputs I need and a Mic preamp, but I could make a Hilo work by buying a Mic preamp?
When I do searches and try and figure this out, there is so much information, some people have no issues and then people like me cant get it to work at all. I do understand my software abilities are very limited and I probably should have never tried to go totally DSP but here I am and there is no going back. I wish there was someone I could pay to help out but there is no one to be found. I have been lucky and found Chris at Fundamental AV that is great with RME totalmix.

mattkhan · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2021, 03:04:38 am »

This has been a longstanding problem, people have used the Steinberg multi client driver (https://forums.steinberg.net/t/pc-windows-asio-multiclient-driver-by-charlie-steinberg/20479) in the past though that download link is broken and it is 32 bit only so not sure that is a sustainable solution.

I think people have used the Hilo successfully before but basically having the option to return if it doesn't work looks like best way forward.

MOTU is one that is known to work though (as I previously posted).

charbug · « **Reply #14 on:** July 27, 2021, 03:30:50 am »

I appreciate the advice on the Mottu. I will have to check it out. I know the Hilo is a great sounding unit. I am to the point of trying most anything.

JimH · « **Reply #15 on:** July 27, 2021, 06:03:49 am »

Quote from: charbug on July 25, 2021, 01:45:39 pm

I have gotten JRiver to work and system sounded good with the convolution engine running an Audiolense file a friend helped me setup, but I wanted to run REW to see what things looked like. I am struggling to get REW to work with the JRiver Line in so I can look at what the DSP has performed.

If line in is your problem, why not skip that for a while and just play music?

You've got a lot of moving parts. Maybe too many.

Other thoughts:

ASIO drivers are always supplied by the device manufacturer and they do not always work.

It's possible that the 32 bit ASIO driver might work better. You could try the 32 bit version of MC.

Your complaints make your posts harder to read. Less muttering and a more methodical approach would be appreciated.

In general, simplify. Use it for a while so you know it's working. Then add complexity, one step at a time. Don't just try things.

mattkhan · « **Reply #16 on:** July 27, 2021, 06:11:30 am »

@JimH to be fair, this is a long standing problem with MC and multiclient asio drivers. I think if Matt or Hendrik had access to such a device then they would find something to change in MC that makes them work.

JimH · « **Reply #17 on:** July 27, 2021, 02:01:41 pm »

mattkahn,
If you have documented this, please post a link. Whose ASIO drivers?

pschelbert · « **Reply #18 on:** July 27, 2021, 02:29:57 pm »

Hi

as Open Live, ASIO Line-In worked for me some time ago I tried it today again.

Result:
MC27.0.85: it did not work on MC27 with UFX nor with UFX II
MC26: it did not work on MC26 with UFX nor with UFX II

Open Live WASAPI works.

Since it workd, I uprades MC, RME FW, RME driver.

What happens, it hangs with the message on the Top:

ASIO
Opening....

There it stays forever.

If I open agains" Oen Live, ASIO Line In"

Then MC crashes

Peter

pschelbert · « **Reply #19 on:** July 27, 2021, 03:19:07 pm »

Quote from: JimH on July 27, 2021, 02:01:41 pm

mattkahn,
If you have documented this, please post a link. Whose ASIO drivers?

Hi

is there another way to grab Input from the audio-interface on ASIO?
RME I use, works playing through JRiver (flac etc.), same time playing or recording to from Soundforge, Vinystudio, foobar2000.

However, today I could not get it to work with Open Live, ASIO Line-In. (MC27, MC26, RME UFX, RME UFX II).

Peter

JimH · « **Reply #20 on:** July 27, 2021, 03:33:19 pm »

Would you try the 32 bit version of MC?

pschelbert · « **Reply #21 on:** July 27, 2021, 03:42:04 pm »

Hi Jim

I tried both the 32Bit version and the 64Bit Version of MC27.0.85.

I can give you all details of driver, FW,Operating System if needed.

RME has a tool "Digicheck" to monitor analog and digital (ASIO) signals. I checked the output on Totalmix (RME mixer soft) and with Digichek.
No output though with Open Live, ASIO Line-In.

Peter

charbug · « **Reply #22 on:** July 27, 2021, 04:44:47 pm »

Thanks to everyone for putting some good data on here. This verifies to some extent the issue I saw.
I may have come across as whining but this past weekend I spent hours trying everything I could.
I bought the RME UC a month ago form Sweetwater and they agreed once the New UCX II came out that would swap me out but now I am thinking of going a different route. I posted another thread to see what products and their drivers people are having good luck with. I may go with a new Lynx Hilo, only downside there is I have to use the headphones out to drive one amp because I need 5 output channels. Another option is to stay with RME if this issue is something that will get resolved in the near term. Either way, Thank you for the support.

JimH · « **Reply #23 on:** July 27, 2021, 06:41:22 pm »

Thanks for the report. We found a problem and will look at it tomorrow. Expect a fix in a few days.

mattkhan · « **Reply #24 on:** July 28, 2021, 03:31:49 pm »

FWIW I tested my FF800 on latest MC just to verify, was expecting it to fail but asio line in was working just fine. The advice to try before you buy seems like solid advice to me unfortunately, not sure what return policies are like where you are though.

pschelbert · « **Reply #25 on:** July 28, 2021, 03:59:28 pm »

Hi

I just tested again with MC28.0.44 (32 Bit, 64Bit) and RME UFX II. Open Live, ASIO Line-in is not working.

stuck on:

ASIO Opening...

UFX II
SW Version: 14
Active Nodes 18
Totalmix: 1.73
Driver: 0.9.735.0

Win7Pro Service Pack1

Peter

pschelbert · « **Reply #26 on:** August 04, 2021, 03:59:31 pm »

Quote from: pschelbert on July 28, 2021, 03:59:28 pm

Hi

I just tested again with MC28.0.44 (32 Bit, 64Bit) and RME UFX II. Open Live, ASIO Line-in is not working.

stuck on:

ASIO Opening...

UFX II
SW Version: 14
Active Nodes 18
Totalmix: 1.73
Driver: 0.9.735.0

Win7Pro Service Pack1

Peter

Hi

I am wondering if the bug: "Open Live, ASIO Line-in" is not working is fixed in version JRiver Media Center 28.0.48 for Windows.

In the release notes I cannot see it mentiond as fixed.

Peter

Foggyroad · « **Reply #27 on:** August 06, 2021, 10:52:30 am »

I haven't used Asio Live for quite some time, so after reading this thread I thought I'd give it a try in case MC28 was causing the same problems that others are experiencing - it still works fine with my Mytek 8x192ADDA. Internal loopback also works fine for measurements through MC DSP using REW.

JRiver also plays nicely with the Okto Research DAC8PRO for loopback DSP measurements.

Hopefully what appears to be a RME driver/JRiver issue can get sorted soon as being able to easily do these measurements through JRiver has always been one of the things that sets it apart from other software players.

pschelbert · « **Reply #28 on:** August 07, 2021, 03:57:10 pm »

Hi

it works again in JRiver MC28.0.49 as before with RME devices, drivers.

Great!

Peter

charbug · « **Reply #29 on:** September 03, 2021, 02:41:26 am »

I just wanted to update everyone. I got the Lynx Hilo and it works perfectly with Live in. No issues and it is very stable!! Very happy with Lynx Drivers.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: RME UC, JRiver MC 28, and REW trying to loopback (Read 1860 times)