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[JunoAudio]

Hi,

When using the format converter with DSD files and converting to the Wavpack format, there should have been an option to keep data DSD but compressed thus saving a lot of space !

Cheers.

[Awesome Donkey]

It's worth noting that if you're converting DSD (e.g. from SACD ISOs, DFF or DSF files, etc.) to WavPack it's likely going through a PCM conversion stage in the middle unfortunately, as all DSD conversions in MC do. So it may not be the best option for doing those sort of conversions if that's a concern of yours.

[dtc]

At least one source says that the Wavpack DSD compression is lossless and reversible.  They compare it to dff compression, which is lossless.  There is no reason that DSD cannot be losslessly compression. It just takes an algorithm tailored to the format.

" it now possible to losslessly compress (ie. the compression is reversible without any loss) DSF and DFF files for free by up to 60% depending on source file and compression rate used"
"
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/digital/pc-software/compressing-dsd-files-with-wavpack-5/

This seems to be confirmed on the Wavpack website

"The hybrid mode is not usable with DSD audio files; those are always lossless and attempting hybrid compression with them will generate an error."

I have not tried this compression of DSD file, but it seems like it may well be lossless.

[dtc]

Here is a report that someone tried the Wavpack losses compression of DSD and indeed the compressed then decompressed file was identical to the original.

Seems like the Wavpack DSD compression is indeed lossless.

https://thepenguin.eu/2018-01-02-losslessly-compressing-dsd-files-with-wavpack/

[Awesome Donkey]

Indeed, but I meant if you're doing the conversions within Media Center itself, it's probably going through a PCM conversion stage in the middle as I don't think Media Center is currently setup to do a "conversion" this way. Media Center doesn't "repackage" DSD from one format to another, it always goes through PCM in the middle when there's a conversion, so it's something to consider. And if that's indeed the case, you might have to do your DSD to WavPack "repackaging" with compression outside of Media Center and re-import the files.

[dtc]

Agreed, normally MC converts dsd to pcm when doing conversions. But, wavpack is a separate encoder/decoder so I would hope MC uses their process. When doing a conversion of a dsd file to wv, MC has an option for Lossless or Hybrid. The wavpack standard when doing lossless compression of dsd is to not do a conversion to pcm.  Doing a conversion of dsd to wv by converting to pcm would, as I understand it, not be up to the wavpack standards. Matt worked with the wavpack developer to ensure that dsd wv files played as native dsd without conversion. I would have hoped that that would carry over to the compression process also. Perhaps Matt can clarify.

[dtc]

I downloaded wavpack and compressed a dsd file to wv format, using both regular and high compression. I got a 22% and a 40% compression. When I used MC to convert from dsd to wv, I got very different compressions and the conversions  were much slower than the wavpack ones. My conclusion is that I would not use the MC conversions of dsf to wv without knowing more about the MC algorithms.  The fact that there is a lossless option when converting from dsf to wv in the MC conversion dialog seems like it may be inappropriate.  This is my first experience with wavpack so I could well be doing something wrong. But my first impression is that there is a problem with the dsf to wv conversion in MC, at least compared to what the original tool does.

[Matt]

MC does not do DSD conversion, so anything we do will be PCM.

WavPack added native DSD encoding (wow David!), and it might be a nice feature to add support to Media Center someday.

[dtc]

Thanks for the clarification Matt. Given that, would it be possible to grey out the Lossless option when doing a dsf to wv conversion. It seems to imply something that is not happening.

I know dsf is a niche format, but a lossless compression feature would certainly be a nice option. Most people do not even know about wavpack, let alone that it does lossless dsd compression.

Thanks.