More > JRiver Media Center 29 for Windows
NEW: JRVR -- JRiver Video Renderer
SamuriHL:
It's not quite that simple, unfortunately. GPU drivers on a PC are assuming everything sent to it is full rgb. So if you send it limited rgb and then tell it to send limited rgb it'll in fact double convert it which will annihilate blacks. These conversions, depending on how they're dithered, will lose precision, as well. So it's a matter of where you trust those conversions to be done. You CERTAINLY don't want it done twice. Sending a full rgb signal across the whole chain, where the display is expecting it and can process it correctly, is the best option. However, a lot of consumer devices don't work so well at full. They internally convert it to limited and at least in the case of LG OLEDS does so not especially well, causing banding issues. In these cases, you send full rgb to the driver, allow it to convert to limited, and then the display receives it as expected. In this case you only convert it once in theory and if your GPU driver is doing its job correctly, it's dithering it so you don't lose much precision in the conversion.
dtc:
Yes, interaction between computer and TV/Movie graphics is hardy seamless. Both NVidea and Intel have struggled with getting these conversions right all the time. Now graphics cards, monitors and TVs have options to support the various modes, althought TV manufacturers sometimes make it harder by not using the correct terms, so limited rgb becomes simply low, for example. And graphics cards should be able to take in limited rgb and output limited rgb. But all of this needs to just happen correctly and the user needs to be shielded from the details. It is getting closer but is not there yet.
My main point was that limited rgb is a significant player in non-computer video and has to be treated correctly by the whole chain, as you point out in detail.
SamuriHL:
Yea, this issue has been a pervasive problem all HTPC users have to deal with. I think that's why the popularity of "simple" streaming devices like the AppleTV and SHIELD is rising. But even there, same kinds of issues believe it or not. I think Hendrick's logic for not including a limited option is good. It will prevent the double conversion issue. As you said, the driver SHOULD be able to accept limited and output limited but that's not the current reality for any driver that I'm aware of. Windows itself uses rgb full which is why the drivers are expecting it. It would be really, REALLY nice to be able to keep the whole chain in limited so that no conversions are taking place but sadly that's not an option for us. At least not now. It took me quite a while to wrap my head around this whole thing. I suspect by keeping everything more simple, Hendrick is avoiding a lot of the discussions about limited->full->limited and all that. I don't blame him. :) Trust the gpu driver. It's your only hope. LOL :D
park:
Is anyobody else seeing stuttery playback? I get maybe half an hour of good playback and then lots of stuttering. If i Pause and then press play again the stuttering will go away for a while. This happens with SD, HD, and 4K playback. With and without subtitles turned on.
I am using JRVR with the following settings:
Display settings (I would prefer to play HD at its native resolution but dont see a way to do that in MC. It seems you can only decide resolution based on frame rate):
23.97 fps > 2160p24
24fps fps > 2160p24
Hardware acceleration: enabled (tried both)
JRVR:
Output:
HDR10 passthrough: enabled
Enable OS HDR Support: enabled
Scaling:
Up Scaling: lanczos (tried all the options)
Downscaling: lanczos
Scale in sigmoidial light: enabled (tried both)
SuperRes: Enabled
Luma image scaling disabled
Chrome: use image scaling
Advanced:
Dithering: Blue noise
Ryzen 8 core 3600X and NVIDIA 3070
BryanC:
--- Quote from: park on January 04, 2022, 08:06:01 am ---23.97 fps > 2160p24
24fps fps > 2160p24
--- End quote ---
23.97 should be 2160p23.
--- Quote from: park on January 04, 2022, 08:06:01 am ---Hardware acceleration: enabled (tried both)
JRVR:
Output:
HDR10 passthrough: enabled
Enable OS HDR Support: enabled
Scaling:
Up Scaling: lanczos (tried all the options)
Downscaling: lanczos
Scale in sigmoidial light: enabled (tried both)
SuperRes: Enabled
Luma image scaling disabled
Chrome: use image scaling
Advanced:
Dithering: Blue noise
Ryzen 8 core 3600X and NVIDIA 3070
--- End quote ---
Try disabling SuperRes until you get smooth playback. Also, try using a hardware scaler (bilinear or fastbicubic) and disabling HA decoding for testing just to rule out source material issues.
I get frame drops on some material, but I'm testing ULV chips. Your rig shouldn't be dropping frames. Could you post an screenshot of OSD while you are playing a problematic video?
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