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Author Topic: JRVR Windows Testing  (Read 43729 times)

jmone

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #250 on: November 24, 2021, 02:04:20 pm »

I've not yet run through any test patterns to check, but any recommendations on if we should be using Limited or Full in the Video Drivers?

....I thought I had overnight, is "Limited or Full" even a thing with HDR?
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lello

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #251 on: November 24, 2021, 02:48:13 pm »

Does your projector support it?

Support what? If you are referring to HDR, yes.

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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #252 on: November 24, 2021, 03:16:52 pm »

We don't differentiate between projectors or TVs, but just switch the output to HDR mode and send the appropriate metadata. As long as the device is capable, as well as your OS/Driver, I would expect it to work.
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lello

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #253 on: November 24, 2021, 03:39:10 pm »

Tomorrow I will do more in-depth tests, in the meantime remove me a doubt: on Win10 do I have to activate HDR?

The projector is an Epson TW9400 and with tonemapping I have a good result as opposed to passtrough
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #254 on: November 24, 2021, 03:44:35 pm »

You either turn on HDR manually, or let JRVR turn it on by enabling the option to let it do so.
But you should also confirm that Windows offers you the option to enable HDR.

If it doesn't seem to work, you could manually enable HDR in the windows display settings and then try playback again, to see if that does something.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #255 on: November 24, 2021, 04:11:02 pm »

FWIW, I'm still trying to workout the best setup on the Epson TW9300.  It supports up to UHD & HDR but..... it only has a 10ghz HDMI chipset so the combinations are...... awkward and limited to get it to work consistently across different media.  I'm also driving it with a NUC8 so I'm also limited in what it can do with it's iGPU.  The "best" compromise I've found so far is to output in 1080p and have JRVR tonemap to SDR but the NUC can't keep up with 59.94 HDR UHD content (consistently dropping frames) but the good news is 50fps HDR UHD content it only drops the odd set of frames here and there and "normal" 23.976 is fine.  I'm aware this setup is very constrained by the HW limitations of the NUC and the PJ, but with JRVR there are plenty of options to now try.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #256 on: November 24, 2021, 04:12:48 pm »

One issue I'm seeing in my testing is that if in Theater View, I Left Arrow back a lot (to get to the start of a video for testing) then JRVR playack is then janky.  I have to do a long Pause then play for it to work correctly again or even a Stop/Play.
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #257 on: November 24, 2021, 04:43:33 pm »

One issue I'm seeing in my testing is that if in Theater View, I Left Arrow back a lot (to get to the start of a video for testing) then JRVR playack is then janky.  I have to do a long Pause then play for it to work correctly again or even a Stop/Play.

I assume you just mean in fullscreen playback, eg. Display View. Its no different if you started it from theater view or standard view and just went fullscreen. :)

I have tried to reproduce it for the last couple minutes but it seems to recover fine. If you can make it happen reliably, perhaps a frame log might shed some light. Ideally trigger it, and then let it play for a short bit, and then terminate, so there is a phase of the issue. No need to "fix" it in the log.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #258 on: November 24, 2021, 08:09:31 pm »

Will do - I too just tried to force it and did not have the issue (and I did not have the log on before).  ::)
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #259 on: November 25, 2021, 10:08:21 am »

Looks like VideoClock is doing its job now!

I also finally got around to testing some more scenarios. On my TV I usually watch at 120Hz, as it allows playing 24, 30 and 60 fps content without mode switches (and HDMI 2.1 has made it possible, yay), and I'm happy to say that both VideoClock and JRVR did their job fine, with no single frame drop or repeat throughout an entire TV episode (ignoring those drops at the start, isolalted to the first half second of playback), as well as perfectly stable timing hitting the right VSYNC window for every frame, and no micro-stutter.
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lello

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #260 on: November 25, 2021, 11:27:44 am »

Tomorrow I will do more in-depth tests

So, today I had time to do some tests.

By selecting HDR10 Passthrough and Enable OS HDR, the PJ automatically switches between SDR and HDR, but colors overall are somewhat dull despite trying the PJ's various HDR adjustments.

By selecting only HDR10 Passthrough, the PJ remained in SDR and therefore Tonemapping was active.

By pure chance I wanted to activate the passthrough "on the fly" that is with the video running, and at this point the HDR was activated but the strange thing was that it depended on how I positioned the mouse: sometimes it was active, sometimes not and it was sometimes active but the colors were exaggerated (people's faces, for example, were a fiery red). If I then let go of the mouse, it went back to SDR.

I hope I was able to make myself understood
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #261 on: November 25, 2021, 02:36:45 pm »

Videoclock & JRVR is working well.  Now I'm jealous of HDMI 2.1 but sooo much equipment to replace (GPUs, AVRs, TVs/PJs).
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #262 on: November 25, 2021, 06:00:32 pm »

By pure chance I wanted to activate the passthrough "on the fly" that is with the video running, and at this point the HDR was activated but the strange thing was that it depended on how I positioned the mouse: sometimes it was active, sometimes not and it was sometimes active but the colors were exaggerated (people's faces, for example, were a fiery red). If I then let go of the mouse, it went back to SDR.

HDR pass-through on the fly changing is probably not something you should do. :) There is some initialization that is only done earlier.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #263 on: November 25, 2021, 06:51:09 pm »

...and to me the big benefit of Win11 is the ability to just leave HDR on all the time, none of this switching the mode back and forth.
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #264 on: November 25, 2021, 07:35:35 pm »

The switching at start of playback is pretty transparent for me. Except that the latest TV Firmware update seems to have broken something and sometimes the signal dies when it switches (also with madVR) and i have to power cycle the TV. Hope that gets resolved in a future update.

Would have to update the CPU for Win11, not sure I want that right now.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #265 on: November 25, 2021, 10:45:23 pm »

What CPU do you have.  I've upgraded a couple of Gen 7's to Win 11 so far without issue.
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #266 on: November 26, 2021, 03:28:23 am »

Its a 6th Gen, I think 6700k. I could probably force it bypassing the checks, but its also not really worth the hassle, as the switching works for me most of the time, its only in the last week that the silly TV update started causing these issues.
I might just upgrade it anyway, something like the 12600 looks rather interesting for a HTPC.
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lello

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #267 on: November 26, 2021, 04:38:35 am »

HDR pass-through on the fly changing is probably not something you should do. :) There is some initialization that is only done earlier.

You're right :)

But if I set passtrough first, the PJ doesn't detect it and stays in SDR mode unless you activate the HDR OS.

However, in my situation, I get EXCELLENT results with tonemapping, I am really satisfied.

I also discovered the excellent result with both BD and UHD menus.

This is something that I have never been able to get to work with madvr, but now I can start the movie with menus without any problem and this even using my custom resolutions.

At this point, I would miss the creation of the ICC profiles, hoping that when you activate this possibility, you will also explain to me how to do it. ;D
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #268 on: November 26, 2021, 06:41:29 am »

But if I set passtrough first, the PJ doesn't detect it and stays in SDR mode unless you activate the HDR OS.

HDR is only supposed to work if either you turn it on in the OS yourself, or let JRVR turn it on for you. If there are cases I missed that this doesn't cover, let me know. But if you run HDR pass-through without Windows having HDR enabled, it'll perform its low-quality tonemapping, which should be avoided.

In 87 I actually tightened the checks for this so these things are properly enforced when you toggle it at runtime.
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lello

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #269 on: November 26, 2021, 10:42:44 am »

In fact, the passtrough is only activated if it is activated in the OS. I also found that it does not activate in cases like mine where custom resolutions are used, but only with standard resolutions.

I take this opportunity to point out, even if you surely already know it, that using the zoom is very heavy both with a moving image and when paused.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #270 on: November 26, 2021, 05:12:30 pm »

V87 is out on the main board, and in my testing
- The subtitle brightness pulse is fixed
- the Ctrl+J OSD now scales nicely
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datdude

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #271 on: November 26, 2021, 05:42:04 pm »

I have a 720p Pearl Jam Unplugged DVD that has a 4:3 aspect ratio. There is a thin green line from top to bottom on the right-hand side that is persistent throughout. It fluctuates from being right next to the video with no gap, to being an inch or two away with a black bar in-between. I tried using the crop edges feature in MC and even set it to 6%, but it is still there.

I double checked and the line does not exist in madvr.
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datdude

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #272 on: November 26, 2021, 05:53:31 pm »

There is one feature, for me, that I think is missing before I can switch over to JRVR for all SDR content. While rare, I do have 11 videos out of over 600, that benefited from using madvr's custom filename blacklevel flag. These videos, for whatever reason, were washed out and benefit from lowering the black level.

I could use a zoneswitch with a custom playlist of just these files to play in madvr only, but it would be great if there was a way to set the black level/brightness on a per file basis.
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #273 on: November 27, 2021, 03:11:40 am »

I have a 720p Pearl Jam Unplugged DVD that has a 4:3 aspect ratio. There is a thin green line from top to bottom on the right-hand side that is persistent throughout. It fluctuates from being right next to the video with no gap, to being an inch or two away with a black bar in-between. I tried using the crop edges feature in MC and even set it to 6%, but it is still there.

I double checked and the line does not exist in madvr.

Curious. When you say 720p DVD, what file format is it? DVDs are typically 480p (NTSC) or 576p (PAL).

Can you make a small cut of that for testing? A binary cutting tool works with most file formats, eg. this tool: https://files.1f0.de/dgsplit12.zip (just set chunk size and stop after 1 chunk to cut from the beginning)
If its MP4, that won't work, unfortunately, but nearly all other formats will, as long as you cut from the front. If its an actual DVD ISO or structure rip, you could cut a small part of the first big .VOB file (typically VTS_01_1.VOB).

A few MB should be plenty as long as it reproduces the issue.

Also, what kind of GPU are you on?
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datdude

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #274 on: November 27, 2021, 09:54:44 am »

Curious. When you say 720p DVD, what file format is it? DVDs are typically 480p (NTSC) or 576p (PAL).

Can you make a small cut of that for testing? A binary cutting tool works with most file formats, eg. this tool: https://files.1f0.de/dgsplit12.zip (just set chunk size and stop after 1 chunk to cut from the beginning)
If its MP4, that won't work, unfortunately, but nearly all other formats will, as long as you cut from the front. If its an actual DVD ISO or structure rip, you could cut a small part of the first big .VOB file (typically VTS_01_1.VOB).

A few MB should be plenty as long as it reproduces the issue.

Also, what kind of GPU are you on?

You are right. It is 720 x 480. I misspoke. :P

I've got an integrated chip on an AMD Ryzen 7 4800U.

Attached is the file.

Thanks!
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datdude

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #275 on: November 27, 2021, 09:57:08 am »

One other feature request I thought of after testing more, is that I cannot shift subtitles globally, like you can in madvr.
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #276 on: November 27, 2021, 12:06:33 pm »

You are right. It is 720 x 480. I misspoke. :P

I've got an integrated chip on an AMD Ryzen 7 4800U.

Attached is the file.

Thanks!

Thanks for the sample. Seems fine on my NVIDIA system, going to throw it at more hardware on monday!
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #277 on: November 27, 2021, 12:10:21 pm »

One other feature request I thought of after testing more, is that I cannot shift subtitles globally, like you can in madvr.

Thats not exactly an easy feature right now in a generic way, and is going to be a while for such options.
We support shifting text subtitles on a per-movie basis, maybe in the meantime we can make a global default? It would only work with standard text subtitles, but maybe that would already be plenty. You could try on a movie and see if it works for what you need it to do.
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datdude

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #278 on: November 27, 2021, 12:32:57 pm »

Thats not exactly an easy feature right now in a generic way, and is going to be a while for such options.
We support shifting text subtitles on a per-movie basis, maybe in the meantime we can make a global default? It would only work with standard text subtitles, but maybe that would already be plenty. You could try on a movie and see if it works for what you need it to do.

I think that would work out great.
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davelr

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #279 on: November 27, 2021, 02:35:51 pm »

Thanks for the sample. Seems fine on my NVIDIA system, going to throw it at more hardware on monday!

I went ahead and tested this on a Ryzen 5 3400 with Radeon Vega 11 graphics. The green line did appear about 1" off the right side of the image. This was consistent over two different firmware levels; 21.8.2 and 21.10.2
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tensionfire

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #280 on: November 27, 2021, 03:01:31 pm »

A feature I would like is the possibility to have a Nit value for 1000, 4000 and 10000 Nits. With peak detection on I prefer in my setup a Target Peak Nits value much higher my really brightness are. We so have more flexibility for the different types of content.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #281 on: November 27, 2021, 03:50:05 pm »

Small one.  It would be good if you could set the "Wait after change (use if display changes slowly)" when "Display Settings automatic change mode" is "On" instead of needing "Custom" as you then would not need to fill out all the frame rate settings to just get the delay set.
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #282 on: November 28, 2021, 01:25:51 am »

A feature I would like is the possibility to have a Nit value for 1000, 4000 and 10000 Nits. With peak detection on I prefer in my setup a Target Peak Nits value much higher my really brightness are. We so have more flexibility for the different types of content.

Not going to add specific options like that. If we get a settings profile system in the future, that might be a possibility to leverage.

Small one.  It would be good if you could set the "Wait after change (use if display changes slowly)" when "Display Settings automatic change mode" is "On" instead of needing "Custom" as you then would not need to fill out all the frame rate settings to just get the delay set.

Sure, why not.
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tgp7777777

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #283 on: November 28, 2021, 04:38:16 am »

Small one.  It would be good if you could set the "Wait after change (use if display changes slowly)" when "Display Settings automatic change mode" is "On" instead of needing "Custom" as you then would not need to fill out all the frame rate settings to just get the delay set.

I second this request.
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armyplace

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #284 on: November 28, 2021, 09:47:36 pm »

Thats not exactly an easy feature right now in a generic way, and is going to be a while for such options.
We support shifting text subtitles on a per-movie basis, maybe in the meantime we can make a global default? It would only work with standard text subtitles, but maybe that would already be plenty. You could try on a movie and see if it works for what you need it to do.

This might work for me. I have a scoped projector screen where I use an Anamorphic lens. If we could have 2-3 presets to adjusting the subtitle text, this would be very helpful.
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #285 on: November 29, 2021, 08:00:26 am »

You are right. It is 720 x 480. I misspoke. :P

I've got an integrated chip on an AMD Ryzen 7 4800U.

Attached is the file.

Thanks!

Got that file fixed. The issue was as I expected, so easy to fix once I could reproduce on the right hardware. Thanks for the sample!
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datdude

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #286 on: November 29, 2021, 01:18:53 pm »

Glad to hear!
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datdude

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #287 on: November 29, 2021, 07:00:25 pm »

Now that I'm using JRVR full time, I am noticing some other oddities. 

Sometimes when fast forwarding, the video slows to a crawl/gets choppy until I stop and resume.

Sometimes the audio won't work after skipping ahead and I'll have to restart playback to make it work.

Also, I just noticed at the beginning of a movie that the audio was garbled for a second or so.

These are all either 1080p or 4k blu-ray mkv rips.

I am bitsreaming and never had any problems when using madvr.
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #288 on: November 30, 2021, 01:55:43 am »

Hmm. I'm not sure how it would impact audio, especially when bitstreaming when VideoClock isn't even active, which would be the only link between video and audio. But I'll keep an eye out.
I have not noticed any of that so far, but then during daily use I don't bitstream.

It does all sound like audio related troubles, as the reference clock is driven by audio, and JRVR just reacts to it. But that doesn't really explain anything yet.

Are you using any other custom DirectShow settings? Not overriding our audio renderer, by any chance?
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #289 on: November 30, 2021, 02:10:55 pm »

Quote
28.0.88 (11/30/2021)

1. Changed: "Video -> Display Settings -> Wait after change" can be used when Display Settings are set to On/Auto, instead of only in Custom mode.

Thanks
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datdude

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #290 on: November 30, 2021, 03:13:45 pm »

Hmm. I'm not sure how it would impact audio, especially when bitstreaming when VideoClock isn't even active, which would be the only link between video and audio. But I'll keep an eye out.
I have not noticed any of that so far, but then during daily use I don't bitstream.

It does all sound like audio related troubles, as the reference clock is driven by audio, and JRVR just reacts to it. But that doesn't really explain anything yet.

Are you using any other custom DirectShow settings? Not overriding our audio renderer, by any chance?

Definitely not. I'll keep an eye out and try to reproduce. I'll try without bitsreaming and see if it is any better.
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #291 on: November 30, 2021, 03:24:52 pm »

On one of the test versions, I had some instances of choppy playback after doing fast rewinding but did not have logging on at the time..... and of course not an issue since turning it on (though I'm only using bit streaming on one HTPC setup and this was not the one with the issue).  I also had on another system an issue with weird Audio after the display rate change but increasing the "Wait after change" value fixed that.  There is also a "play silence at startup for hardware synchronization" that may help (though I've never needed it) in Options --> Audio--> settings
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datdude

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #292 on: November 30, 2021, 07:43:04 pm »

I'm seeing a faint white line at the very bottom of the screen. See screenshot attached. Happens on multiple movies that have completely black (or mostly) scenes and it is obvious in a dark room on an OLED. The line is not there when playing the same movies on madvr.
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #293 on: December 01, 2021, 03:01:43 am »

In the image, the line has a green tint to me, which is always a bit of a hint..

A few things to check:
- Can you test without hardware decoding?
- Can you test with another upscaler selected (which would affect Chroma)? Which one are you using? Try something trivial like Bilinear or such maybe.

I have a hunch but need to confirm.
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #294 on: December 01, 2021, 06:44:19 am »

Looks like that problem might have a small performance cost to fixing, hopefully it won't be very noticeable, but quality should win of course.
Got a potential fix in for the next build, let me know if it resolves the brighter line, and for everyone else, maybe check if you can notice any performance change with hardware decoding - not that it can really be avoided, but information is good.

Edit
89 is available now on beta, appreciate any testing!
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jmone

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #295 on: December 02, 2021, 04:15:43 pm »

Tested on:
- NUC7 and the update now pushes UHD HDR 59.94fps material passed it's processing power with frame drops (and I tried all the various scalers but no luck).  UHD HDR 50fps is still fine however. 
- NUC8 (outputting @ 1080p) also drops frames on UHD HDR 59.94fps (but it is occasional groups rather than all the time like the NUC7)
- 1660Ti & 3090: No performance impact I could see

On my HTPCs I did not see the "brighter line" issue, is there a specific combination that causes it?  The reason I ask, is it would still be good to have a mode that is playable on such low end equipment (say the good old "Compromise Quality for Performance") if possible.  I'll not die in a ditch over lack of 59.94fps playback on the NUC as I've only two of those but I suspect that with the rise of Videos from modern phones / cams that shoot HFR/HDR others will bump into it.  Thankfully I shoot in 50fps frame rates and these still work.
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #296 on: December 02, 2021, 04:57:11 pm »

It might depend on how the movie was encoded, and what exactly the GPU fills the out-of-frame image data with. In datdudes case it was apparently the treacherous "empty green" which is basically the value 0 for chroma. Chroma upscaling would then read some of these green pixel in the upscaling process, creating a faint green echo. Reading those can't really be prevented cleanly, as any reasonably fancy upscaler will read an area to determine the pixels, so the only solution is to cut them off, but that is mildly costly, especially when you are already barely making it.

In any case thats the theory whats going on, its in itself logical, but would need confirmation its fixed for datdude now.

Even if the outside pixel were black though, you might get a slightly darkened line along the bottom edge or such, which still wouldn't be great - even if much less obvious.
An option might be possible, but I'm weary about adding one thats not exactly quality, but a bug.
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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #297 on: December 02, 2021, 05:10:29 pm »

Thanks for the background.  I'd personally select an option that may have the potential issue of the "empty green" than unwatchable stuttering (especially as I've not seen the issue).  How about an option like as follows where Bilinear is still the default but a user can still select the old method if needed?
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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #298 on: December 02, 2021, 05:33:01 pm »

... keeping with the movie themes for naming stuff in MC (aka Red October), you could call it "Fast and Furious" mode!  ;D
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Hendrik

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Re: JRVR Windows Testing
« Reply #299 on: December 02, 2021, 05:42:13 pm »

I might be able to turn it off when using the built-in bilinear scaler, since that one is rather predictable. But I'll need to do more testing. Would also be good to know which scaler datdude was using. Since the color extends into two lines actually, I would assume something more fancy with a bigger area.
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