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[mblovati]

I'd like to play DSD and FLAC multichannel.
So that I bought an OKTO DAC8 PRO.
I installed it with JRiver 27 on MAC.
I plugged it into the MAC and set the JRiver for 4-channel playback and then plugged it into the quadraphonic Galactron amplifier.
I have not encountered any problems when playing 2, 4 and 5.1 channel FLAC files. JRiver indicated 2, 4, 6 channel sources and 4 channel output with excellent quality.
Unfortunately I cannot play DSD/DSF 5.1 files as JRiver detects a source with only 2 stereo channels.
Could somebody tell me how to set JRiver to get a multichannel source playing DSD multichannel?
Thank You
Marco

[mblovati]

I'd like to play DSD and FLAC multichannel.

So that I bought an OKTO DAC8 PRO.

I installed it with JRiver 27 on MAC.

I plugged it into the MAC and set the JRiver for 4-channel playback and then plugged it into the quadraphonic Galactron amplifier.

I have not encountered any problems when playing 2, 4 and 5.1 channel FLAC files. JRiver indicated 2, 4, 6 channel sources and 4 channel output with excellent quality.

Unfortunately I cannot play DSD/DSF 5.1 files as JRiver detects a source with only 2 stereo channels.

Could somebody tell me how to set JRiver to get a multichannel source playing DSD multichannel?

Thank You

Marco

[JimH]

There is a wiki topic on DSD.

[mblovati]

Yes, I've read the topi on wiki.
But it is not explained nothing about DSD multichannel.
Or probably my english is not as good as it should.
Please del me

[JimH]

Bitstreaming might work if your device supports the filetype.   Otherwise, you may be able to convert to a different format.

[kr4]

Unfortunately I cannot play DSD/DSF 5.1 files as JRiver detects a source with only 2 stereo channels.

You refer to JRiver detecting a source with only 2 stereo channels which means that output is not where the problem is.  Where did the files come from, where are they stored and how is that connected to your MAC?  Also check the Audio MIDI Setup app on your Mac.

[bob]

I'd like to play DSD and FLAC multichannel.

So that I bought an OKTO DAC8 PRO.

I installed it with JRiver 27 on MAC.

I plugged it into the MAC and set the JRiver for 4-channel playback and then plugged it into the quadraphonic Galactron amplifier.

I have not encountered any problems when playing 2, 4 and 5.1 channel FLAC files. JRiver indicated 2, 4, 6 channel sources and 4 channel output with excellent quality.

Unfortunately I cannot play DSD/DSF 5.1 files as JRiver detects a source with only 2 stereo channels.

Could somebody tell me how to set JRiver to get a multichannel source playing DSD multichannel?

Thank You

Marco

Did a quick search on the DAC and it indicates it can play DSD directly.
Try enabling DSD bitstreaming in MC's Audio settings and see if that solves your issue.

[LilyAarseth]

Maybe I am off, but wasn't there a limitation with MacOS where it doesn't support bitstreaming DSD and you'd have to use DoP?

[Awesome Donkey]

macOS doesn't support native DSD output over CoreAudio, it only supports DSD through DoP. So yes, you're correct. The DAC you're using would have to support DoP (or DoPE if using a DSD over DLNA capable device). If it only supports native DSD output with no support for DoP, it won't work with macOS.

[bob]

macOS doesn't support native DSD output over CoreAudio, it only supports DSD through DoP. So yes, you're correct. The DAC you're using would have to support DoP (or DoPE if using a DSD over DLNA capable device). If it only supports native DSD output with no support for DoP, it won't work with macOS.

When you set bitstreaming DSD on Mac MC it uses DoP.
Most DAC's that support DSD also do DoP so they can work on Macs

[mblovati]

Dear Kal,

thank you for your advise and your time.

I checked my HD files, more than 15 terabits: most of them were downloaded from [removed by admin].
Their formats are flac and DSD; some hundreds of DSDs are in 5.0 or 5.1 format and some flac file are in 5.1.
I found unexplanained results:

1-if I paly a DSD 5.1 using DSD bistreaming the JRiver reproduce 2.0 channels; so the output is in 2.0 channels even if I set 4.0. The OKTO DAC shows DSD 64 Dop

2-If I play a DSD 5.1 without the DSD bistreaming the JRiver reproduce 2.0 channels; so the output is in 4.0 channels. The OKTO DAC shows flac 176.4 24Bit

3-If I play a Flac 5.1 without the DSD bistreaming the JRiver reproduce 5.1 channels; so the output is in 4.0 channels. The OKTO DAC shows flac 176.4 24Bit

4-If I covert a Flac 5.1 into DSD, using the JRiver conversion, the JRiver with the DSD bistreaming reproduce 5.1 channels; so the output is in 4.0 channels as I set it 4.0. The OKTO DAC shows DSD 64 Dop. With this option JRiver shows DSD 16.934 Kbps (instead of 5.645) and the quality is exceptional, really better than the original unconverted Flac 5.1

5-If I covert a DSD 5.1 into Flac, using the JRiver conversion, the JRiver without the DSD bistreaming reproduce 2.0 channels; then the output is in 4.0 channels as I set it 4.0. The OKTO DAC shows flac 176.4 24 Bit

I really do not believe that all my DSD 5.1 files are fake. All my DSD 5.1 files have huge dimension and the source is reliable. I think that JRiver do not detect 5.1 DSD format of my files, I don’t know why.
The only thing I can do at the moment is to avoid the DSD bitstreaming and the direct DSD/Dop sound and enjoy the 4 channels discrete playback.
In any case, the result is very good.
If you’d like to test some of my files I am ready to send it.

Best regards

Marco

[mblovati]

Dear Bob,

thank you for your advise and your time.

I checked my HD files, more than 15 terabits: most of them were downloaded from HDmusic.me.
Their formats are flac and DSD; some hundreds of DSDs are in 5.0 or 5.1 format and some flac file are in 5.1.
I found unexplanained results:

1-if I paly a DSD 5.1 using DSD bistreaming the JRiver reproduce 2.0 channels; so the output is in 2.0 channels even if I set 4.0. The OKTO DAC shows DSD 64 Dop

2-If I play a DSD 5.1 without the DSD bistreaming the JRiver reproduce 2.0 channels; so the output is in 4.0 channels. The OKTO DAC shows flac 176.4 24Bit

3-If I play a Flac 5.1 without the DSD bistreaming the JRiver reproduce 5.1 channels; so the output is in 4.0 channels. The OKTO DAC shows flac 176.4 24Bit

4-If I covert a Flac 5.1 into DSD, using the JRiver conversion, the JRiver with the DSD bistreaming reproduce 5.1 channels; so the output is in 4.0 channels as I set it 4.0. The OKTO DAC shows DSD 64 Dop. With this option JRiver shows DSD 16.934 Kbps (instead of 5.645) and the quality is exceptional, really better than the original unconverted Flac 5.1

5-If I covert a DSD 5.1 into Flac, using the JRiver conversion, the JRiver without the DSD bistreaming reproduce 2.0 channels; then the output is in 4.0 channels as I set it 4.0. The OKTO DAC shows flac 176.4 24 Bit

I really do not believe that all my DSD 5.1 files are fake. All my DSD 5.1 files have huge dimension and the source is reliable. I think that JRiver do not detect 5.1 DSD format of my files, I don’t know why.
The only thing I can do at the moment is to avoid the DSD bitstreaming and the direct DSD/Dop sound and enjoy the 4 channels discrete playback.
In any case, the result is very good.
If you’d like to test some of my files I am ready to send it.

Best regards

Marco

[dtc]

You can download a free 5.1 DSD file from here, to check another source.

https://www.exasound.com/Blog/tabid/74/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/103/David-Elias--Free-DSD-Downloads-in-Stereo-and-51.aspx

[AGAWA]

suggest to check whereabouts of suspected site; two addresses come to mind: accesify.com and scamadviser.com.
There are loads of useful information.

[bob]

Dear Bob,

thank you for your advise and your time.

I checked my HD files, more than 15 terabits: most of them were downloaded from HDmusic.me.
Their formats are flac and DSD; some hundreds of DSDs are in 5.0 or 5.1 format and some flac file are in 5.1.
I found unexplanained results:

1-if I paly a DSD 5.1 using DSD bistreaming the JRiver reproduce 2.0 channels; so the output is in 2.0 channels even if I set 4.0. The OKTO DAC shows DSD 64 Dop

2-If I play a DSD 5.1 without the DSD bistreaming the JRiver reproduce 2.0 channels; so the output is in 4.0 channels. The OKTO DAC shows flac 176.4 24Bit

3-If I play a Flac 5.1 without the DSD bistreaming the JRiver reproduce 5.1 channels; so the output is in 4.0 channels. The OKTO DAC shows flac 176.4 24Bit

4-If I covert a Flac 5.1 into DSD, using the JRiver conversion, the JRiver with the DSD bistreaming reproduce 5.1 channels; so the output is in 4.0 channels as I set it 4.0. The OKTO DAC shows DSD 64 Dop. With this option JRiver shows DSD 16.934 Kbps (instead of 5.645) and the quality is exceptional, really better than the original unconverted Flac 5.1

5-If I covert a DSD 5.1 into Flac, using the JRiver conversion, the JRiver without the DSD bistreaming reproduce 2.0 channels; then the output is in 4.0 channels as I set it 4.0. The OKTO DAC shows flac 176.4 24 Bit

I really do not believe that all my DSD 5.1 files are fake. All my DSD 5.1 files have huge dimension and the source is reliable. I think that JRiver do not detect 5.1 DSD format of my files, I don’t know why.
The only thing I can do at the moment is to avoid the DSD bitstreaming and the direct DSD/Dop sound and enjoy the 4 channels discrete playback.
In any case, the result is very good.
If you’d like to test some of my files I am ready to send it.

Best regards

Marco

This is pretty complicated but let's see if we can break it down a bit.

First one is the bitrate. That's not useful on multichannel DSD files because they are compressed so you can ignore the fact that the DAC says it's DSD 1x (which it really is) and the MC's bitrate which is computed using the size and number of channels. MC's sample rate would be what you should be looking at.

Because you can play 5.1 from conversions done by MC that would indicate that you should be able to do that with other sources as well.

Are your files sacd iso's, DSF or DFF?
What are your DSP studio settings with regards to output format (enabled or not)?
Number of channels (source, or fixed channel output)?

[kr4]

I checked my HD files, more than 15 terabits: most of them were downloaded from [removed].

I have never heard of this site before.  When I went there, I saw what looks like free downloads of copyright materials and that makes me suspicious of them and the provenance of their materials.   

I really do not believe that all my DSD 5.1 files are fake. All my DSD 5.1 files have huge dimension and the source is reliable. I think that JRiver do not detect 5.1 DSD format of my files, I don’t know why.

Nor do I.  I would have more confidence in your evidence if you had tracks from reliable and authentic sources.

Also, I have no personal experience with 4channel/quad output nor with Macs.  Your settings seem reasonable but without the option for playing 5.0/5.1 in 5.0/5.1, one cannot know exactly what the source contains and what the channel order is.  For example, 4.0 is FL/FR/SL/SR but the standard channel packaging for 5.0 (5.1) is FL/FR/C(/Lfe)/SL/SR.  So, when you get stereo output over quad are you really getting the first 4 channels with C/Lfe silent when you want either FL/FR/SL/SR or an intelligent mixdown that incorporates C/Lfe content? 

If you’d like to test some of my files I am ready to send it.

Don't know how that would help you since the systems are so different.  Have you tried any of the reliable but free 5.1 downloads from exaSound or from 2L?

[mblovati]

My files are DSF converte from iso.
Now I've downloaded a DSF 5.1 from Esasound website.
I suppose this is reliable, but the result is the same: the MC produce 2.0
My DSP output studio setting in enabled.
The number of channels is fide to 4

[mblovati]

Tomorrow I will tray 2L also

[bob]

My files are DSF converte from iso.
Now I've downloaded a DSF 5.1 from Esasound website.
I suppose this is reliable, but the result is the same: the MC produce 2.0
My DSP output studio setting in enabled.
The number of channels is fide to 4

I don't think you can use 4.0 for this case. You need to set the output number of channels to 5.1

[blgentry]

Doesn't bass management cease to exist when bitstreaming?

I.E., if you are playing native DSD and you are bitstreaming it to the DAC, MC makes zero changes to anything.  It doesn't change the bits nor does it touch the number of channels, or try to mix them.

In which case, trying to play a 5.1 channel DSD song on a 4.0 system would be kinda difficult unless that system has bass management of its own.  You would essentially, in the best case, end up with no center channel information and no LFE information.

Perhaps my understanding of this topic is incorrect.

On the other hand, if not using bitstreaming, then MC will convert to PCM, do bass management, and then (optionally) convert back to DSD.  Which kind of defeats the point of using DSD.  Unless of course the claimed "euphonics of DSD" (even DSD converted from PCM) are desirable (which they might be).

Brian.

[bob]

Doesn't bass management cease to exist when bitstreaming?

I.E., if you are playing native DSD and you are bitstreaming it to the DAC, MC makes zero changes to anything.  It doesn't change the bits nor does it touch the number of channels, or try to mix them.

In which case, trying to play a 5.1 channel DSD song on a 4.0 system would be kinda difficult unless that system has bass management of its own.  You would essentially, in the best case, end up with no center channel information and no LFE information.

Perhaps my understanding of this topic is incorrect.

On the other hand, if not using bitstreaming, then MC will convert to PCM, do bass management, and then (optionally) convert back to DSD.  Which kind of defeats the point of using DSD.  Unless of course the claimed "euphonics of DSD" (even DSD converted from PCM) are desirable (which they might be).

Brian.

I believe your assessment is correct here.

[AGAWA]

I don't think you can use 4.0 for this case. You need to set the output number of channels to 5.1

Bob,
I have 4 speaker setup.
# of output channels = 4
no sub
I tricked MC  not to direct stereo to rears
no SOX
and I play SACD ISO , both 2 channels and MCH
and it does the job.
Still, my excellent MCH Sony SACD player has better DACs, but my Apogee Duet is not far from excellent SQ. Sony is silky smooth, real Hi-Fi, and Duet is pleasantly listenable.
Just my view.

[bob]

Bob,
I have 4 speaker setup.
# of output channels = 4
no sub
I tricked MC  not to direct stereo to rears
no SOX
and I play SACD ISO , both 2 channels and MCH
and it does the job.
Still, my excellent MCH Sony SACD player has better DACs, but my Apogee Duet is not far from excellent SQ. Sony is silky smooth, real Hi-Fi, and Duet is pleasantly listenable.
Just my view.

It does seem like your situation is similar.
When MC is set to 5.1 and mixing off the result will be MC will create empty channels for the output of the unused input channels.

[mblovati]

I'm finally back from my vacation and I'm back on this topic.
I discovered my mistake in converting ISO files: I used the parameter [-2] (stereo) instead of [-m] (multichannel).
By modifying the parameters I was able to get DSD 5.1 files from my ISO archives.
So I used 5.1 DSD files on MC setting bitstreaming on DSD and getting 5.1 sound. The MC now plays the 6 channels in this order: 1 FL, 2 FR, 3 center, 4 bass, 5 SL, 6 SR.
Considering I have a 4 channel discrete amplifier and 4 speakers, I cancel the center channel and I add the subwoofer to channel 5 SL using the Okto DAC setup. A blasphemy for purists, but I did it.
I also noticed that the subwoofer channel has a very very low volume, down to -150db. I do not know why.
This way MC sounds very good, but considering I use to play files of various formats I am forced to change the MC setting for different files. In any case with the DSD 2.0 file, most, MC only plays 2 channels and 2 loudspeakers are mute.
So I finally set the MC to "Bitstreaming NONE" and 4 channel output, with 4 channel up / down mix.
Using this configuration I am now able to play all my files, DSD 5.1, 5.0, 4.0, 3.1 and FLAC 2.0, 5.1 achieving a quadraphonic / surround result (real for multichannel and upmixed for stereo files) without continuing to change the MC setting for various files.
Yes, I know I don't play direct DSD and lose something, but it's a very easy way.
Thank you very much.
Have a nice WE
Marco