More > JRiver Media Center 29 for Windows
LFE Mixing: Question and potential Enhancement
mattkhan:
Fair enough. It does seem the premise of the OP is incorrect though, i.e. MC does not appear to be applying this boost at any time and hence if the OP wants to achieve what they want then they should continue to do it manually (and/or share content clips of samples where they think jrss is doing something undesirable).
stewart_pk:
--- Quote from: mattkhan on June 11, 2022, 04:30:39 am ---It does seem the premise of the OP is incorrect though, i.e. MC does not appear to be applying this boost at any time and hence if the OP wants to achieve what they want then they should continue to do it manually (and/or share content clips of samples where they think jrss is doing something undesirable).
--- End quote ---
Hang on I didn't get that from Hendrik at all!
Unless Hendrick will categorically state right here right now that JRSS won't effectively and I emphasise effectively boost the LFE by 10dB when downmixing to an output where there is no subwoofer, Hendrick?
stewart_pk:
--- Quote from: Hendrik on June 11, 2022, 02:44:44 am ---If anything this thread shows that the 10dB boost for audio is not very well understood, and options resulting from such a situation are more likely to add to the confusion, rather then solve any problems.
All I see here is theoretical thoughts, no actual data that something is wrong.
From what I understand, properly mastered multichannel audio should always incorporate that boost, in videos or music, this includes DVD-A and Blu-ray Audio, typical sources for multichannel audio, as it serves a real purpose to be able to have the LFE compete with all the other channels in volume, otherwise the LFE would be too quiet.
Downmixing is a special situation as well, and the 10dB boost is handled differently here to account for the fact that its being downmixed. I would recommend to actually listen how it sounds, if the LFE would be 10dB too loud, that would be an easy situation to hear or measure.
--- End quote ---
As mentioned there is seemeingly no standard for mastering music which includes the LFE channel.
Hence my request of:
Provide a checkbox option of "Don't apply 10dB boost to LFE" which if checked would apply to both non-dowmixed and downmixed output.
The way I see it, this wouldn't "hurt" anything and could potentially stop equipment from being damaged.
Also, what do you think about my request regarding where the LFE can be mixed to? This is actually not directly related to the request above but seperate.
Provide a dropdown relative to downmixing with options of "Mix LFE to all channels" and "Mix LFE to the main L and R channels".
I know there have been other previous and similar threads regarding this from other users.
stewart_pk:
--- Quote from: Hendrik on June 11, 2022, 02:44:44 am ---From what I understand, properly mastered multichannel audio should always incorporate that boost, in videos or music, this includes DVD-A and Blu-ray Audio, typical sources for multichannel audio, as it serves a real purpose to be able to have the LFE compete with all the other channels in volume, otherwise the LFE would be too quiet.
--- End quote ---
I don't follow you and I think you are misunderstanding something.
The LFE channel needs to be boosted somewhere, somehow for VIDEO audio because the standard says it must be mastered 10dB less than the other channels. Boosting the LFE has nothing to do with bringing 'balance' just because there are likely to be more speakers than subwoofers. The LFE must be boosted by 10dB to restore it to the same average level as the other channels. From there the consumer can do whatever they want with it e.g. down-mix it into the other channels, not downmix it into the other channels and ignore it, not ignore it, make it louder, make it quieter, high-pass it, low pass it, daisy chain 50 subwoofers in a room from the same LFE signal running full-tilt with it if they want etc.
Hendrik:
--- Quote from: stewart_pk on June 11, 2022, 09:51:10 am ---Provide a checkbox option of "Don't apply 10dB boost to LFE" which if checked would apply to both non-dowmixed and downmixed output.
The way I see it, this wouldn't "hurt" anything and could potentially stop equipment from being damaged.
--- End quote ---
I already commented on that above - theoretical considerations are not enough reason to offer an option we don't have any confirmed data if its needed or helpful.
Please share any data or files where this is a real problem so we can look into it.
PS:
Equipment damage should always be impossible in your setup. If your equipment gets damaged when playing a 100% digital signal (and more is not possible), then it'll get damaged eventually, and you should limit it in hardware to prevent that.
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