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[TMV]

Hi all,

My system is a 2.1 full active setup. I use the RME FF400 with Hang Loose Convolver (HLC). It works but since Fire wire is no longer supported under W10 there is a need to use legacy drivers. Even after that I experience 1-2sec crashes, manifested by long beep. So need to move to USB based interface. I use coaxial spdif in with asio so options are limited to:
1. RME UC
2. Motu ultralight mk5
3. Motu ultralight mk4

The RME and mk5 are priced about the same used and new respectively, 550-600$. A bit expensive for me. The mk4 is around 450$ used.

If anybody has experience with both mk4 and mk5, please share your experience with them. How do they compare in w10 environment? Difference in stability, sound quality any other thoughts.

Thanks

[pschelbert]

Hi

I would go with RME. Solid driver and software mixer (Totalmix). I have a RME UFX and also an UFX II.
Maybe you can get a RME UCX, newer verison of UC. (The most recent version is UCX II, so there may be secondhand versions of UCX available)
I had a Motu, not the in the same class in driver-stability, usability (mixer) and sound.

Peter

[eve]

Hi

I would go with RME. Solid driver and software mixer (Totalmix). I have a RME UFX and also an UFX II.
Maybe you can get a RME UCX, newer verison of UC. (The most recent version is UCX II, so there may be secondhand versions of UCX available)
I had a Motu, not the in the same class in driver-stability, usability (mixer) and sound.

Peter

Pretty much agree. The Motu's have a nice IP control interface but when push came to shove, I wasn't a fan of the actual converters in the AVB Ultralite. I'm talking about the new revision with the same D/A chip and similar output stage to the Mk5. They were seriously underwhelming from a fidelity perspective IMO (I am very picky however). They just felt 'flat' and up in the HF it got to be a mess of 'distortion' rather than detail if that makes any sense (I'm no expert but I tend to see this as a function of output stage rather than the D/A chips themselves)

RME's are really solid driver wise, have super long support 'windows' (like way beyond what I'd expect). If we're talking about the converters, I can't speak to the ones in the specific unit mentioned, but the ones I have used (admittedly a little higher priced) have been top tier. If you really want a good example, their ADI-2 is like "the" reference d/a for stereo headphones.

Do also consider the Topping Dm7. I hate to shill, but it's just bizarrely well priced and you can actually get your hands on one. It frankly kicks similarly priced multichannel audio interfaces to the curb. It's not for production but in a playback context, it's perfect (and if you really want to split hairs, I totally 'dont' use it as the D/A for some of my post production work and multichannel mixing or anything crazy like that   )

https://www.stereophile.com/content/topping-dm7-8-channel-da-processor Have a look at Kal's article
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-dm7-8-channel-dac-review.35661/


In a slightly higher price class (and very difficult to come by at times) the Okto DAC8 is *wild*

[mattkhan]

I have a motu 1248 and ff800, I have seen no difference in driver stability nor hardware quality over time (both models have suffered a single psu failure, been fine apart from that)

fwiw https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/motu-ultralite-mk5-review-audio-interface.24777/ gives some measurement data on the motu

[TMV]

Hi guys,
Thanks for the input. I was AFK for a while. Think I will go with the RME UC. Got used to the interface and the FF400 does sound great. With the right filters of-course

[eve]

Hi guys,
Thanks for the input. I was AFK for a while. Think I will go with the RME UC. Got used to the interface and the FF400 does sound great. With the right filters of-course

Good choice.

FireWire on Win10 is a mess. If you still want to attempt to make it work I can walk you through what I had functioning quite well under Windows 10.

There's a few ingredients that matter here, first off, you *have* to buy a firewire card with a specific chipset. Anything else causes the issues you were experiencing or worse (BSODs due to firewire using more direct memory access). You'll also need to ignore the recommended drivers that Windows will try to install for the FireWire card. These do not work for audio interfaces correctly.

XIO2213B Is the chipset IIRC. You'll also want to look for a card that contains molex power in. Even if your interface is not bus powered this in my experience can affect system stability as everything connects (leading to BSODs or the interface not appearing). In most cards, the chip will be clearly visible and easily identified in product photos, even if the actual product info makes no mention of the chipset used.

https://www.startech.com/en-us/faq/firewire-cards-windows-legacy-driver-swap

Even if your card isn't a StarTech one, this is the link to use and follow assuming you purchased a card containing the correct TI chipset. This driver has a chance of getting overwritten by Windows during updates, if so you'll have to make sure it gets reinstalled. By the way, if you're wondering why a driver distributed by Microsoft gets overwritten with one that very much does not work? I don't know.


Even after all of this, it still may not work for you. Firewire as you've mentioned is very much YMMV on Windows 10.

[TMV]

So the Topping will not work for me as I need a coaxial SPDIF input.

Thanks for the explanation eve. I did not go into it but I am using a legacy driver. Before installing it I had BSOD of all shapes and sizes. Even had the motherboard replaced (under warranty) and it of course didn't help. Currently I am using this card:
https://www.vantecusa.com/products_detail.php?p_id=130
with legacy drivers. As mentioned the crashes are minimal but as soon as a reasonably priced UC or UCX comes along it will be USB and goodby to FF.

[eve]

So the Topping will not work for me as I need a coaxial SPDIF input.

Thanks for the explanation eve. I did not go into it but I am using a legacy driver. Before installing it I had BSOD of all shapes and sizes. Even had the motherboard replaced (under warranty) and it of course didn't help. Currently I am using this card:
https://www.vantecusa.com/products_detail.php?p_id=130
with legacy drivers. As mentioned the crashes are minimal but as soon as a reasonably priced UC or UCX comes along it will be USB and goodby to FF.

Yeah, I was troubleshooting this for a while to get things stable. I ended up running a second boot drive with windows essentially 'frozen' from updates and driver changes to work around things.
FireWire is not worth the hassle. Having said that, for a little while I definitely reaped the benefits. Trying to replace the interface was a nightmare. I went through multiple $1K+ MOTU units and was frankly, not impressed. They functionally were top notch, but the actual D/A just didn't sound as good. It seems like a crazy audiophile nitpick but for what it's worth, my partner (who was very confused by how many interfaces I cycled through) started mentioning the performance once without me even asking. I had gone from the MOTU which I was complaining about, back to the firewire interface we like the day before and forgot to mention it, within like 10 minutes of a movie, they asked me if I had figured out something with one of the MOTUs since it sounded 'right' again.

The RMEs sound really nice IMO They were on my list before I became aware of the Topping Dm7 and felt like gambling on it.

Nowadays, I wouldn't go back to a USB interface. I'd try the Okto, but frankly for double the price, you can scrounge up a used Merging unit and just never touch USB and it's flaws again.